A home for those who love almost everything about The Ticket (1310 AM, 96.7 FM, Dallas-Fort Worth), and who would like to discuss -- respectfully and fondly -- their thoughts on how (and whether) to eliminate the "almost."
There will be a lot of opinions about this development and this is a good place to post them, so have at it. My own is that, unless they have a platform like the one they tried to invent at The Ticket for their new venture, they’re going to find it hard to monetize whatever they call their podcast or other digital offering. Tucker Carlson/Megyn Kelly they ain’t. But they’re not stupid, so maybe they do have a lifeline with some established content provider.
Whatever their risk, I do wish them luck. If their content is free I’ll at least check it out. But I’m kind of a busy guy. And with the exception of The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, and the execrable AZCentral (i.e., the Arizona Republic, the worst major-city daily newspaper I’ve ever encountered), I am not a paywall guy.
For the time being, I’d like to offer a technical comment:
We don’t know the exact wording of their noncompetes, which we would have to know in order to know what is or is not foreclosed to them for their noncompete period.
The world has changed rapidly, and language that made sense in the all-analogue era may not be broad enough to cover all of what the lads have planned, or covers it only ambiguously.
But one thing is clear: Cumulus clearly regarded the digital/podcast/on-air hybrid to be competitive with The Ticket, which means (since they’d be on air even under The Ticket’s preferred outcome, so we can factor that out) that it considers the digital/podcast element of their demand competitive with The Ticket.
And if they don’t – and believe me, they’re probably already incurring some substantial start-up costs in what they’re paying lawyers to tell them what they can and can’t do – they may start their venture before a noncompete period expires. Again, please remember: A noncompete does NOT prohibit departing employees from PREPARING to compete. So they could run around and try to get financing or put together some kind of strategic partnership during that period – as long as they’re not competing with The Ticket’s on-air product.
But if they roll the dice on going live, it seems likely that Cumulus would sue them and seek a temporary restraining order, then preliminary injunction, then permanent injunction against them competing for the duration of the noncompete period. Who would win depends on the language of the noncompete, but if it’s competently drafted, Cumulus would win IF – big “if” – the court agrees that their digital/podcast product in fact competes with The Ticket. It is not inconceivable that even a properly-drafted noncompete that covers digital/podcast would be deemed too broad, and held to be unenforceable. I’m guessing it would be enforced – after all, Jake and Dan themselves sought to tie it to their broadcast obligations
Just sketching out a scenario that might emerge. Too many unknowns to predict the outcome, the main two being (1) what does the noncompete say, and (2) what are the lads actually doing during that six months. But one thing is certain: It will cost both sides tens of thousands of dollars (it has already), and, most likely, as Chris Chris would say, six figs.
Curious TP, with your connections, you come out with a post that they did not sign with the Freak yet you couldn't have just said they resigned from the Ticket? Seems premature IMO as if iHeart is serious about the Freak then they'd definitely throw their hat in the ring to try and lure D&J over.
I agree that an agreement is still in the cards but man I don't think Dan and Jake submit their resignations if there isn't another option out there for them
Computer isn't a loss IMO. I've never enjoyed his brand of sports fandom.
I don't think D & J are dumb so they've thought about this move. One thing that seems to consistent is people talking about how well Dan knows the radio business. We've heard it from Bob, Jake, and even the OGW that Dan knows his stuff. If they've read the signs correctly is another matter of course but I doubt they did this without due thought. Didn't Jake put in his 2 weeks before he re-upped last summer? I seem to remember that it got that close to him leaving but they came to a deal at the 11th hour.
For a station that until 3-4 years ago considered themselves to be special for the consistency of their line-ups, a lot has changed with the departure of Rhyner.
In the dust: -Old Grey Wolf -Norman -Dan McDowell -Jake Kemp -Big Dumb Danny -Big Strong Jer
Tier 4 cast offs include Sirois Julie Dobbs
That's a lot of talent to let go... and i would argue that of all that, the biggest loss would be the fun of WTDS and the bet payoffs for picking games.
As much as i'm meh about Dan and Jake together, it's hard to deny that losing them is a big blow.
Wow, I’m stunned. I don’t care what kind of deal they have in place, it’s not going to work out long term for them. Being on the Ticket is special and unless someone else doubled your salary and promised you that you won’t be fired ever it’s not worth it! Dan and Jake would have been safe on the Ticket until both retired. They could have even taken over for the Musers once they retired. The worst decision in the history of DFW media.
@1044 They bring up barstool, Mcafee and others weekly. Dan knows what Jake makes off of IJB's patreon and that's just one show a week. Someone mentioned yesterday about Jake not wanting to leave the security of TT because of benefits--when the benefits are not great at the Ticket. His wife's benefits are better and he has that as a backstop. Dan's wife still teaches so his wife and daughters can transition to her benefits as a life event.
I don't like seeing people in the comments calling these guys "dumb". They've weighed the costs of doing this but I guess as a P1 what concerns me just as the former Ticket people going to TF is you're burning the boats. I "think" there will be solidarity from TT hosts about Cumulus not paying Jake now that Norm's salary is off the books. Also looking at things in an acturial sense, the costs to the company for Norm's medical procedures over the years has been pretty substantial as well.
This is a tough one for me as THZ is my favorite show. Now it's just tuning in to the Musers and then going to podcasts until trying to decide if I'm listening to HL or DB that day. I'm so scared baby.
Agan, someone stating as fact something they know nothing about. The cost of Norm's health issues sbd procedures. Do you know how insuramce works? Goid lord. I'm scared for you to, but for different reasons.
I agree that Dan & Jake are interested in expanding the ways that their content can be consumed. They’ve responded with angst when P1s have asked about live video or full segment downloads (however, their website does have a lot of content, just not as quickly as one might want.)
I also think that both guys have enough common sense to not flush a stable future at The Ticket down the toilet in the hopes of going fully online with their content. There is money to be made in the podcast world but not a few hundred thousand per year to pay salaries and everything else that might come along with running your own show.
10:44, That could potentially be a long wait time for a spot that is not guaranteed. What's the timeline for the Musers right now? 10 years from retiring? the Hardline isn't going anywhere unless they get fired.
Right now, the Musers are the flagship program on the Ticket and the station is teetering with a lot of uncertainty.
@1044 when the Musers retire, I'm not sure that TT doesn't start folding. You have a lot of talent in their mid 50's so while the demise of TT isn't imminent, we're within a 10 year radius. These guys talk retirement a few times a year and none of them outside of Bob seem like lifers. I sometimes wonder why the younger guys--Mino, Monty, etc aren't podcasting and building a brand. I see a world where Mino never gets a payday and that honestly saddens me.
Listeners just don’t change their habits. Norm’s show was unlistenable, but still pulled in top ratings because people are engraned to listen to the Ticket. Even the Old Gray Wolf hasn’t been able to get people to listen to him. My prediction is they will show up on the Freak in January. They will be doing morning drive.
Poor Sirois. He probably cried himself to sleep last night. He just had to hang on for another year! No way he would not have gotten a gig with 2 shows being open.
Jeff - are we really acting like Dan & Jake are the same as Machine & Sirois? because they ain't.
1106 - acting like the only reason people listened to Norm was because they forgot to change their dial is dumb. dude clearly had a following, most of them just aren't in your age group.
The number of people that have left in a relatively short time is what makes me wonder about something other than money is the issue. Some of them were for sure money and maybe Cumulus just has a number they won't go over for anyone? It's doubtful barring someone doing a tell-all interview that we'll get the whole story.
@Jeff--Norm is an icon. You're belittling him saying the only reason he got ratings was because he was on TT. From all indications he brought in serious money and gave a lot back to charity as well. Would you rather spend your money with Norm's advertisers or the ones sponsoring other shows? Even Norm leaving the way he did is peculiar--announcing less than two weeks later he was going to start podcasting. Just because you don't listen to him doesn't mean he isn't going to have a following there as well.
@KDF--with their stock being unstable, I'm doubting Cumulus is willing to go above what the most recent contracts are at which for Jake would be unacceptable. Guy took over at the wrong time and was underpaid. He hasn't seen a real Ticket payday yet.
Dan & Jake are definitely light years ahead of those two when it comes to talent. My point was that they’ve (or at least Jake’s side of things) tried a podcast network before that includes more than one show and it didn’t take off - so - they are at least aware of how difficult that route can be. I’m saying that I don’t think they’d give up on The Ticket to go to a strictly podcast format.
KDF, there is a pay inequity that bothers some of them(Sirois and Danny were the first to finally throw in the towel and Jillian left around the same time period). I can't be sure this is something that Catlin and Bennett can do anything about as it's above their heads. There is probably a consulting company telling Cumulus that they have two strong anchors and can put a lower paid show in the middle without losing much. Not having D&J and Norm on the payroll is a significant savings to Cumulus that I'm not sure would impact the ratings significantly enough to have kept them all.
Scattershooting while wondering if Norm has announced where his podcast is going to be produced? I have no insight here, but it would be very interesting to see Norm having TC produce/distribute his podcast through the Blowout Podcast Network and then having HZ join in and putting all of it behind a paywall/patreon. Norm/HZ/IJB all in one digital location starts to have a little more draw than a sirois/machine et al... For those of you that don't fancy TC, he has become an excellent broadcast/podcast host (IMHO) and he legitimately knows the podcast space.
11:37-Certainly possible, I don't really know anything about his production company but that would make more sense than my hypothetical based on their past relationship.
I’m curious how this affects Jakes current podcast IJB? If he’s not an employee of Cumulus, can he still operate it? And what is to stop Dan from appearing on said podcast? That may all be specified in the non-compete but just something that occurred to me. Apologies if this has already been addressed. Thanks
P.S. This is my first time back to MTC in a few years. I forgot how much I missed it and the people who contribute to it.
Interesting point about the non-compete and digital content. I'll say this, if they start something during the non-compete period, it is clearly a grey area. And if Cumulus then tried to enforce it, that would probably be the day I turn off the Ticket for good. I'll already be listening far less after this move. Just a brain dead decision to let these guys walk by the idiots in charge at Cumulus. If their garbage app and signal wasn't proof enough to the masses that Cumulus doesn't care about the listener - this should do it.
Jake (and the rest of the hosts) routinely states how awful Cumulus health ins benefits are. And there have been plenty of allusions to him not getting host money when he started
Looking back now, this is the exact same thing that happened to Mark Davis at WBAP. His contract was up, Cumulus wouldn't meet his demands and he walked, sat out his six months, and ended up at KSKY. He went from the number one talker (at the time) to a station that shares ratings with The Freak or less. We should have seen this coming.
Cumulus benefits may be bad, but how are benefits at Dan + Jake, Inc.? Sooner or later, they'll have to price insurance if they're going to get some kind of employer plan. Of course, we don't know who that eventual employer is going to be, so maybe they'll be better off. And, as someone noted, spouses may have plans that will be satisfactory to them.
You know, men and women, if Dan and Jake are reading comments like those that have appeared here the last few days, and I assume on Reddit and elsewhere, they're giggling up their sleeves because they know what their plans are, and we don't. They like those plans for reasons of their own of which we are all ignorant.
It's fun to speculate on their motivations, strategies, future. It must be, because I get hundreds of comments here within hours of each post. But in terms of illuminating reality . . . not really so very much.
Just a hunch, but I'm not sure Cumulus is the cash cow it used to be in a changing media landscape. Clearly Dan and Jake have impressive resumes, and they probably have an expectation as to what their market value is. If the well is drying up at Cumulus, the offers Dan and Jake may have received could have been significant pay cuts, and with the way the winds are blowing they might not see long term viability at KTCK any longer. I know the Ticket has been sort of a sacred cow for a long time, but change was always inevitable, and as much as we associate dyed in the wool Ticket guys with the Ticket, they're also individuals with families. It was easy to forget that this is a business just like any other during the halcyon days of the Ticket, but I'm sure there's a lot we don't know about the radio industry that happens just beneath the surface.
Scattershooting while wondering if we're having fun here, no?
1. This is an inference, but my suspicion is that the true crux of the problem (the bitching about benefits, etc being a sideshow) is that under current contracts with Cumulus, the talent was/is not restricted from stuff like podcasting, twitch, etc while employed by KTCK. The biggest tell is everything Gordon has been doing off to the side lately. From Cumulus's perspective, I suspect that set-up is not optimal. If they are paying for talent, then it stands to reason that they would want to control all delivery channels in which that talent participates. That's all a rather long-winded way of saying that the folks who have real seats (Tier 1 if you like, and maybe some of the Tier 2 folks? I'm not really sure) and binding employment contracts with Cumulus are probably all going to take up this battle with the CTOs as their contracts turn over. I wouldn't think this would be an issue with the Tier 3 and Tier 4 folks who I suspect are generally at-will type employees, and in any event, I think that the CTO would have a hard time enforcing those restrictions given the relative peanuts they seem to pay those folks.
Reading between the lines, I think Jake's participation in IJB and anything similar is a problem for Cumulus unless they control the revenue stream. I'm not saying they're right or wrong, but it's not hard to understand why that would be the case. Jake I suspect wants to be able to make more money and one way to do that is to monetize his audience through Patreon.
2. There's a lot of "certainly" and "definitely" being thrown around in this thread about non-competes and legal rules by people who have no idea what they are talking about. Without reading DaJ's contracts with Cumulus, no one can be sure of anything. Having said that, it's interesting that so many folks (Jake himself, Gordon, etc.) have been appearing through other channels seemingly without a problem with KTCK for a while.
3. The economics of the "go it alone" route seem very challenging to me. Take the June radio ratings recently released as a snapshot - THZ got an 8.3 share of men 25-54 (meaning 8.3% of men 25-54 who were listening to the radio during that window were listening to the THZ). I'm not a radio ratings expert, but that seems like a great number.
I don't know what DaJ make - but it feels like in the past numbers in the multiple hundreds of thousands for Tier 1 hosts have been thrown around. Just to put a hypothetical together, let's assume that Dan was earning $300,000 and Jake was earning $200,000. That's before 401K matching, cost of health insurance, etc - if you go it alone, those costs come off of the top line before you put dollars in your pocket. And then you have to hire producers and potentially other talent. Let's just be conservative and assume DaJ want to clear what they've been clearing plus pay some other talent etc. Maybe that means $700,000 in revenue? If you're selling subscriptions through Patreon at $100 per year or something, you've gotta sell 7,000 just to get to where you are today.
Based on some quick research, about 55% of the DFW population is between 25-54, and a little under half of those are men. So call it 27% of the DFW population (7.76 million) or about 2 million men. I could see how DaJ could squint at that number and say we can sell a $10 per month subscription to 1 in 300 of them. I can already see some of the counter arguments people might make to this thought exercise: (1) their listeners aren't all men, (2) they could have more appeal than just DFW folks. (1) is a fair point, but let's be honest about the lion's share of their listeners. (2) is speculative at best and I think gets to the heart of the issue.
Many of DaJ's listeners (I have no idea how many) are bought in and listening to DaJ not because of DaJ but because they have some sense of belonging to KTCK as a P1. They may like or even love DaJ. But part of what makes DaJ special is they are part of the crowd. For most of its successful history, the Ticket hasn't really been in the business of selling disparate shows to its listeners; it's been rather more like selling access to a private club where there is a recurring series of hosts at different hours of the day. Sure there's some normalcy in the schedule, and they all have their own bits and programming, but what makes the whole thing special is how the tapestry is woven together.
With his podcast (and to a bigger extent now at the Freak) Rhyner has learned the hard way that when you're on a platform, you can't just hit the ejector button and assume that everyone consuming you through the platform is loyal to you rather than the platform. Professional services firms and organizations with sales functions learn this the hard way all of the time - they pay someone some big sign on bonuses expecting all of their relationships to be portable and then learn that like everything else in life some of those relationships were way more complicating and interconnected with their colleagues.
I think DaJ are both smart guys - I think they understand that you can't risk-weight all of that stuff at zero.
Accordingly, it would be really surprising to me if they're not going to attach themselves to some sort of existing platform.
Don't bring up Mike's podcast. It jumped between like 3 networks, was never really consistent after it left The Athletic and was one of the worst done podcasts I've heard because the host didn't really care.
I'd love to hear from someone who knows more than me about this: I wonder what effect Clay Travis's career arc has had on this situation. Not trying to get political, and I know Dan and others have taken shots at him on air, but I wonder how much input either directly, or as an example of the possibilities he's had. I'll take my answer off the air.
@The Thermostat I agree completely on all points except the salary numbers. There's no way they were making half a million combined, 350K is probably more realistic. That's still over 3K subscribers needed at $10 per month, but IJB has nearly 900 on Patreon.
Can someone do a service for the P1 and listen to the Downbeat today. (I know it’s asking a lot) But, I could see them talking about Dan and Jake today. I mean, they do say what they want and they know people are interested.
@Thermostat- Jake isn't making 200k my man and that's a big issue. I also find it hard to believe Dan is at 350k.
Regarding benefits, they have wives so they can go on their insurance, I'm not sure why some see that as a sticking point. It doesn't seem like Cumulus has great benefits.
The PMan has inferred, 99.5% of us here know nothing, we're all guessing. These guys know when their contracts come up what leverage will be used to keep the employer from increasing their salaries. As I regard Jake as a decent economist, this has been bubbling up for him since his first contract and getting what he is deserved. Dan went through this before with Bob and they ended up taking less to stat at TT. With their connections in media, the numbers were crunched and a decision was made by them. I think the fact it hasn't been announced by Cumulus that negotiations are not dead.
Regarding the difference between Gordo's Twitch & Discord vs. what Cumulus probably wants all of its employees to do regarding income--Gordo is donating all funds to charity. I think that was a genius way to dip his toes into the water and see what is out there and/or would happen come next contract.
Look at leveraging--noone else on air at the Ticket has been successful at podcasting. Corby stopped after 5(?), Davy's is/was so niche there's a minor following, and noone else is worth mentioning. I'm guessing Jake's part of IJB is 2k or more which obviously is peanuts in the grand scheme of things but if aligned with a network and talent, could match or surpass his income from TT.
But again, this could just be a leverage play for a bigger contract and I respect the hell out of D&J for not blinking. There is something going on at TT that precedes this which is crazy to me with where the ratings are at.
The thing with most of those failed podcast is they were never really committed to it. People are creature of habit and consistency is a massive factor in success of any online venture. With the IJB background (and the fact it would be replacing their full time jobs) I'm confident that won't be an issue for Dan and Jake if that's the route they go. They'll be consistent and grow their audience.
Still hoping there's a last minute compromise by both sides to avoid this whole thing!
I wonder what the overall compensation cost is for the ticket P&L going forward vs pre Norm retirement. Seems like they are going to have significant less costs going forward unless they have an external hire with a proven track record
I'm going to echo what the one commenter (I'm assuming it's the same person) keeps saying: There seems to be a whole lot of talking out of one's ass going on here where salaries, real or imagined inequalities, benefits, dues paid, lifestyles, etc., are concerned. A whole hell of a lot. I wish it would stop. The level of "expertise" on any of the above by nearly all commenters saying such things hovers around zero. It's one thing to state an opinion, to prognosticate, to ask rhetorical or semi-rhetorical questions, and to engage in good old fashioned speculation. That's the fun of a page such as this. It's another to claim implicitly or explicitly something based on conjecture as fact. Everyone's a fucking expert now on everything, it seems. Well, like the 56 year old saying the 50s are the new 30s, it might make you feel good for whatever reason, but it has no bearing on the veracity of claim. All it does is engender pissing matches that detract from genuinely fruitful discussion. OK. I'll get of the soapbox.
As to the matter at hand, I'm very sorry to see THZ go. Even though so very many of his predictions and projections of players, teams, and trends turn out to be wrong, I do enjoy Jake's Cowboys and Mavs talks. His passion is contagious. I also like the way Dan, while having an eye to the more analytical side of things, still maintains an older school eyeball test view of sports. The two balance each other out nicely. I won't miss all the bogging by Dan. But over all, I'll miss the show.
I keep thinking that surely they have something firm in place, else why go this route? This is specially the case with Dan. We'll probably never know the full extent of the story, (what follows is opinion, not a fact) but something about the whole situation seems off. Be it on Cumulus's end or THZ's. Have you yourself or have you known anyone who tried to get/got out of a relationship either by forcing the partner to end things via acting shitty or by purposely searching for a fatal flaw that doesn't really exist in order to say you were forced to end things as you can't abide by this fatal flaw? I haven't, but I've witnessed it on several occasions thoughout my life. I can't shake the feeling that something like this happened here. Which side pulled one of these tactics? That I don't know.
Whatever may come, The Ticket will go on and in all likelihood will continue to dominate in all day parts. I'm sad to say that I'm not sure the same can be said for THZ boys. Not because they lack the talent. They don't. It's just that's how things usually shake out in these situations. To put it in Dan's parlance, "it's just the way it is." Dan very well be his own prophet.
Anon 2:26, I do not doubt you, although, I think that is low. During Greggo days, he said he gave up $500k. Now, that is probably Greggo hyperbole, but still, that may have been remotes, commercials, etc. I have no clue how that works.
Absolutely, could be that those types of salaries are for #1 drive time shows. I would not be surprised if the Musers had some sort of kicker in their contract for a bonus for winning a Marconi. Nor, would I doubt others get a kiss when they are rated number 1 in the market or the station wins a Marconi.
At this point, since all insiders appear to be silent, We don't know.
Now, I would not be surprised to see something from RW on the matter. It is in the open, and he likes to be the news breaker. And, he could give insight on what folks actually make. I am not sure he has any bridges left to burn, so he might be inclined to divulge that info.
Perhaps this is the cryptic twitter activity 239 referred to, though it's from yesterday and I'm just now noticing it. Both Dan and Jake retweeted Saquon Barkley tweeting "It is what it is". I hadn't seen that mentioned here.
Man oh man, sakes alive! Reddit is on fire! Master's theses on -- The End of The Ticket, I Am a D1P1 and This is the Saddest Day In Ever and Now I'm Done with the Station, I Will Die on a Hill with Dan and Jake, and on and on.
Clip and save this, Surly. That way next time you won't make the same mistake re: what was being said during The Disturbance.
Hoping so badly they go TF the second they're legally able. Then RW will have been one hundo. Too funny. Thought we were gonna get a real deal radio war when TF came online. Was a pity they sucked and continue to suck, making that good time all but impossible. THZ to TF will change all that.
Wow. That D Magazine article is absolutely well sourced since Jake writes for them and no way they run it without confirmation. Sad day, indeed. Stay hard, Hang Zone!
Definitely trying to strong arm Cumulus into a deal. Like Mark Davis learned, it didn’t work. It won’t work for D & J either. Best of luck to them. Another station in a few months or podcasting seems all but certain.
Piellucci worded that like he knows what's next for them (would make sense, I'm sure Jake talks to his editor at least semi-regularly). If they have something lined up that they're telling friends about, sounds like a done deal.
Thinking DnJ are going to want a do over sooner rather than later. They've grossly overvalued their brand and talents. It's not going to surprise me in the least if something's hammered out over the weekend. It's also not going to surprise me if they fade off into oblivion like so many others. Oh sure at first it'll be all kisses and kudos. The first few months might be gold. But it'll be fool's gold. That'll die down in short order. Then the reality of a daily pod and-or working on a station that is a loser with a bunch of people who really aren't 'your sorta people' will set in. Next comes the inevitable inertia and sludgy numbers. Finally the parting of ways. Dan doesn't know what else to do so he's taken a job a KCRAP in Lansing, MI. Jake on the other hand and with his MA in hand, gets out of the game entirely. You watch.
All I have to say is if The Freak is silent about this big shakeup, then I think DaJ are going to TF.
Come on! The station that can "say what they want" goes quiet on one of the biggest shakeups at their DIRECT competition?? No way!
We need a loyal MTC-er to sacrifice some brain and listening power and check out TF for a bit and report to us if they talk about it. If not, RW was right.
I listened for a segment to get off the beat down that was 10-3. The beginning of the show they did make reference to the Saquon retweet “it’s just business” a few times. Outside that no mention I heard but I did not keep listening. I may catch up via podcast later because the iHeart app is not very fun to use
They're Freak bound. They've been Freak bound since the inception of The Freak. Whitt was dead on correct. The demands they were making were laughable. They knew their demands were laughable. The entire negotiating process that began in December was a farce. It was a farce because there should not have been any negotiations going on in the first place. They began the process of trying to renegotiate their contracts with the intent on coming to an impasse in order to resign and in doing so not coming off as the bad guy because we all know it's always The Man's fault.
Um, yeah. OK. I appreciate Bob's optimism, but he's pissing up a rope and into the wind here. They were gone a year ago when TF was being put together. This was the plan. That's something Bob's going to have to come to terms with at some point. A bitter pill to swallow, indeed.
Something is going down. Corby just now joke tweeted about Jake coupled with Bob's Believe tweet. I bet the Cumulus brass outside of DFW were shocked at the reaction and decided to go all in at the 11th hour.
Correct me if I'm wrong- the only T1 that went the way of holdouts due to contract discussions were 1. BaD (Fan was offering more money, and a drivetime spot?, in the end they chose to stay) 2. Jake (this ones a bit hazy but I thought he did sit a few days out after getting the bump to host - I know he got the gig early 2020 then, well, y'know- all hosts were doing what they could for those Bora Bora trips. But I could have sworn he was negotiating a solo raise in pay). & now 3. HangZone. "Discussions began monthes ago". They(the entire station) were pulling in never-before-seen numbers. Another competing station had been created, with all their shows having past employees in bigger roles (a few of those were even massive Ticket favorites).
I really wonder if D & J felt: slighted in pay, the need to take their talents to a drivetime spot somewhere. Im having a hard time thinking this is all because of Cumulus balking at regards to digital avenues, a podcast, option to put previous shows on their own managed site.
What about Sean Bass's Living Wage? Talk about paying dues. Talk about loyalty.
I never hear dick about him or Ty. Rich Phillips had to go away. All of them want to be hosts. Where's the crying? Where's the outrage? The demands for evil Cat, evil Bennett, evil Cumulus to do the right thing? Why aren't people standing up and shouting to the rooftops that if Jake and Dan actually cared, they'd give part of their salary to Ty. Same with Donnie to Sean.
Shocking to learn that people care about hosts they tune in to hear and not background lower tier employees. What are you going to bring up next, the janitors?
So Sean and Ty don't have shows, never had shows huh? Ditto Rich? Go home, chump. By your logic the same has to be said of Julie, Danny, and Sirois. Get yer shinebox, little boy.
It's now being reported on Radio Insight. I have to think it's all over and that any last minute reprieve is merely wishful thinking on TT staff and our parts. As Florida Evans yelled upon leanring the news that James died: Damn! Damn! Damn! Damn!
This is how Corby ended today's HL, and I quote: "Everybody hold a good thought for those that need to be held a good thought for. Put your hands tightly together put your little head down and say there’s a chance."
Man, this might not be over yet. MIGHT NOT. Let's all come together and get that positivity flowing.
@7:11 anon I know you have a childlike mentality based on your unprovoked ad hominems but since you brought up Dan and Jake giving up part of their salary, here you go from someone who was the beneficiary: https://twitter.com/JulieAnnDobbs/status/1681454062871674883?t=YI2SX3xesE75uzDEh3wnww&s=19
I have it in excellent authority that the email that was posted that everybody thinks is fake is completely the genuine article and should be taken at face value. In other words, Dan and Jake turned in resignation letters and they are gone. That process has started, and it may not be reversible, depending on the wording of the letter. The fact that we’ve now seen articles in both the DMN and D magazine makes it more likely that this can’t be walked back. I really doubt this is a last minute ploy, I’m told the process of moving endorsements has already started. That wouldn’t happen if negotiations are on going in some way. I think clearly that whatever THZ demands were, the “competing digital interests” were a bridge too far for Cumulus to swallow. Will be interesting to see if THZ ever reveals what that demand was. C
Julie ought to stay in her rather restricted lane, stop signalling, and focus real hard on her own show. But that's not TF way. And since TF way is to put carts before horses, I wonder if she's inadvertantly spilled the beans? Defending a new teammate?
If she’s defending a new teammate it’s going to be real awkward with her current teammates. I find it highly unlikely that a station that is down 30-40% from what the Eagle made has room for another couple HIGH salaries. If TF adds THZ, you can kiss goodbye either Cavanaugh and KT or Ben and Skin. Unless iheart management secretly has a kink fetish of being humiliated and losing money at the same time. There’s wild ass salary numbers being thrown around for THZ and TF staff. Whatever number you want to pick, contrast that with their billing which is in pace to be someplace north of 5 million this year. THZ may be headed to the Freak. But if do, there’s a revolving door and someone else is in their way out C
Unprovoked? All half of you morons fart on about is some fantasy land where Dam and Jake are underprivileged waifs begging for crumbs from their evil overlords. Julie is from a very wealthy family. So is Kelly. They are upper upper middle class themselves. She was doing just fine without Dam and Jake's kindness. It was damn decent of Dam and Jake to throw some bones to their support staff like they did. Heckuva gesture, Brownie. No one well at least not me has said they aren't good dudes. Please try not to drown in the kiddie pool, sonny boy. Guess I hit too close to home for ya.
Yeah it's most likely over. If Cumulus didn't budge on THZ's demands before, they're not going to magically change their minds now. Just let them go and move on...it could be better for both sides long-term. If THZ stuck around for another contract, they would just go through this same thing in a few years. As a midday show, there's a ceiling that they can't overcome and there's nothing that can be done unless AM/PM drive became available. If THZ is going to pursue a podcast and do whatever they can to bet on themselves then good for them. TBD if it will be successful but I can't blame them for taking a shot after maxing out at The Ticket.
And as for the station, this is a good opportunity for them to "get younger at the position" and really start developing their talent for the future. Instead of a roster of hosts 50 and older + Jake, now they can mix in some younger hosts and give them more air-time. If I'm Mino, Monty, DJ, Blake, etc. I'm loving it right now because there should be plenty of opportunities now and in the coming years.
That's not encouraging, C. But I agree that once the news hit the DMN, Barrett's, Dmag, and Radio Insights it does seem like it's too late to walk back from the precipice. I highly doubt we'll ever get the full story. Events like this rarely, if ever, are given full sun. Despite the now overwhelming amount of venomous, angry, trolling, and just downright asinine comments over the past week or so, I do think the nearly all of us can find concord in that we're all going to sorely miss Dan and Jake. And not only that, but also, this station that we one and all are so passionate about (to the point of lunacy in some cases, I'm sad to say) will never be quite the same. Sure, in due time it'll be business as usual. But there'll be that certain ephemeral quality that just isn't quite there like it once was. We've already felt this rather keenly with Rhyner's departure, then Danny's, then Sirois', and Julie's too. And well, The Freak thing took us all aback. Change is inevitable, all things must pass. I for one am very sad to see it go. But there's also gratitude and hope. Gratitude for the gift we've all been freely given that is The Ticket. Hope in that perhaps now room will be made for new voices; new voices that we rally around and who become the next generation's Rhyner's, Gordo's, George's, Dan's, and all the rest.
Anyways. I do hope everyone will take a deep breath and calm down. I love MTC, but this past week or so has been somewhat of a black mark. We're Confessors. We're better than this.
I think Corby’s hints at a reversal are more a reflection of his ego than of reality. He seems to have taken on the role of some kind of closer that can talk Dan and Jake into lessening their demands and coming back into the fold. Naturally, he has no doubts about his own power of persuasion.
Agreed, and I think the predictions of the Tickets collapse (if not here, def over on Reddit) is premature. I like to remind people that Greggo was on air for 13 years. He’s been OFF the station for 16. If you’re the midpoint of the M25-54 demo as a 40 year old you’ve never heard the Hammer while you were in the demo. Maybe as a kid, but really how many 7, 14 or even 19 year olds are huge p1’s? My point being that Greggo was a huge part for a certain audience. But things changed, and there’s a generation (or more) that only knows Mike and Corby or Bob and Corby as the Hardline. It sucks to lose THZ, but from the leaked memo they have a norm replacement already picked. Now the Cat has to find 2 more quality dudes. But new listeners are constantly being added. In 10 years they’ll have to explain who the Hang zone was. C
I wonder how much of that played into the negotiations. If they’d been negotiating with BAD radio, on air for 20 years, ratings success, etc, would things be different than negotiating with a show with a much smaller track record. C
All due respect to the great C, and I may be biased from my own personal experience. But I’m 40 and have been listening from jumpstreet. My old man had 1310 on in the car, in the garage, at home. I member Greg and Rocco and GXD on tickers on THL and Musers prank call of the week and plenty of other good stuff from the 90s KTCK. There are more of us than you think
That being said, when my kids get in the car and I have the little one on, they moan that it’s “the boring guys talking about the Cowboys” so I’m not doing my part in making new P1s
I’ll try to remember to look up numbers tomorrow. But the majority of ticket listeners are historically 35 plus. I think there’s a lot fewer of you than you think C
Part of the reason I refuse to buy into the “this is the end of TT” is the Greggo situation. The Rhyner situation. The Danny/Sirois “they’re losing all their upcoming talent” situation. So many this is the beginning of the end doomsayers, and yet the ticket is coming off a 6 month run of absolute ratings DOMINATION. They weren’t just the expected #1 in their demo, they were number one OVERALL. I said it yesterday, inertia is a hell of a thing. Listeners tune in to the Ticket for a mix of sports and to be entertained. The Fan is more straight sports and does well, if not spectacularly. The Freak has the opposite mix of TT, leaning much more on trying to be entertaining, with sports as their filler. Until TF changes their mix, there’s a healthy percentage of TT listeners that want sports, and won’t care about THZ opinions on crap like the most overrated food group. There is a market in this town for sports talk. The question is is there room for 3 sports talk stations. (KESN says no). Tell me why people who want the 70/30 sports to Schtick ratio of the ticket are suddenly going to flock to TF if they’re 30/70 the other way. They’re competitors, but arguably not offering the same product. I’m just not sure sports listeners are going to give up their sports news and discussions to here whatever THZ version of “Rhyner ranks it” that McDowell folks out. C
This isn’t a person, it’s a show. Essentially it’s a reconfigured BaD Radio that’s gone. That’s a big deal, but yeah THE TICKET is a juggernaut. Caitlin has his work cut out for 10-3.
Good point. I remember being stunned by people who kept asking who's Greggo and who's the voice saying all those crazy things in those drops? I was stunned bc it was less than a yr after he'd been fired. News cycles and those involved move on and are forgotten in a hurry. That was 15 yrs ago. The time of relevance, no matter how passionate interested groups are, is swept into the dustbin of history faster than ever. Food for thought.
One more thing about the Greggo analogy. When he was fired he was THE star of the station. It wasn't even close. He was larger than life and he connected on an everyday level with listeners from all demos. He was the face of the station. Ask any of the hosts who were around then, they'll confirm this to a man. Yet, less than a year later, even with him doing a stint at 103.3 then later The FAN (still in the public eye), it was as if he never existed. His fans were massive in number, far and away larger in size and even in their loyalty to him than either Dan or Jake. Again, less than a year later -- if a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to see/hear it (?). The real loyalty resided with The Ticket and its hosts as a whole. Despite what we tell ourselves and each other, in the final analysis we cheer for the uniform and for those wearing it, not for the player.
Greg was definitely a top 2 star/face of the station until he met his ticket demise. I’d argue that the rise of the Musers put Gordon up there with him by the mid aughts. I can’t deny the force that was early ticket Greg. All of us who have been around since the early days hold 1995-2005 HL in the highest regard. To say nothing of the greatest fake character in ticket history. Gordon is on record a number of times that fake Greggo was always his favorite. Thank goodness we have the fake Luka now
No, I think Dan is a genius. My point is that the Freak emerged as a direct competitor for the listeners just months before the Ticket had its best ever ratings can’t be ignored. For years I’ve seen comments about how they have no competition, just wait till someone challenges them, etc. well, they got a competitor where the whole air staff minus 2 had worked at the Ticket. And it had zero effect on TT ratings. In fact, it seems to have actually help improve them. Dan may be a genius. And there is a certain percentage of listeners thst will follow a jock instead of the station. For Rhyner, that crowd size is worth a rating that ranges from 13-19th according to the Peter Welpton posted ratings. 19th isn’t good, and Rhyner is arguably better known and more popular than Dan and Jake. C
I think people like 10:03 are stuck in the past and assume that paradigms don’t shift. The Ticket so called inertia want go on forever. Things change and inflection points are hard to see until you have passed them.
All due respect, but Greggo was drug addict and his post ticket career does not predict the careers of Dan or Jake. Greggo has had multiple issues with relapses including ending up in the hospital after drinking [110?] cans of miller lite over a weekend according to the Freak reunion episode. They are hard workers and have grinded for years. Dan had a radio career prior to the ticket and understands the industry better than almost any other host at the ticket. I will guess they will end up doing fine wherever they end up landing.
True, but I sell radio for a living and compete with the Ticket sellers. Middays are nice, but the audience (and so the higher rates and more money) are in drive times. The Musers had a SEVENTEEN share recently. If their ratings take a huge hit from THZ leaving they’ll (checks notes) pretty much be back where they were. I’m just saying everyone has pointed to all these other events as inflection points, and yet there they are, number one in overall ratings for 6 straight months. C
110, 1003 here. With all due respect, I don't think you understood what I was saying. What I was saying is that things DO change and change quickly. They change and they move on, for good. Nothing I said had anything to do with good old day syndrome. Quite the opposite in fact. Things change in this case in that the people involved change/move on. Despite these changes, listeners stick around. They stick around because ultimately they "cheer" for "Team Ticket" and not the people involved. I hope that makes more sense to you.
Greggo's addictions have nothing to do with what I'm saying. Please turn your attention towards one Mike Rhyner. It's in many ways the same with him. Mike is the face, the centerpiece of a new station with a lot of money. He's been gone from The Ticket for over 3 years. He founded the thing and yet I guarantee you there is a whole slew of listeners who came aboard during COVID that have little to no idea who he is. No one knows the industry better than Rhyner. That includes Dan. And, again, despite being the face of a station with a heritage signal and lots of money and billboards and fluff pieces in all the media outlets.... It's a tough business and it's a who's in front of me right now/what have you done for me today world.
Likely, yes. Only hope is from Bob and Corby's hints that something may still be worked out (and the knowledge that Corby talked to Jake before giving said hints)
I’d like to think the Norm retirement was genuine but I don’t. The timing of it all was weird and it would be bonkers for Norm to leave money on the table.
I’d like to think that D&J had the full backing of other shows but I don’t. The Musers couldn’t get big Jer a livable wage and Sirois left at 38k. Danny probably wasn’t making much more and it took him leaving for them to add Davy and probably paid him more than Danny was making.
I’d like to think Corby and Bob can do more than retweet or tweet things to support D&J and are also asking for answers from management.
I’d like to think this contract fiasco for D&J is not just about them but also the rest of the show. They’ve mentioned ad nauseum Pat Macafee taking care of his show. They helped their show during Covid and frequently buy everyone lunch.
I just don’t know what is what anymore. I know guys like Donnie and Monty are stuck in a tough place. Does Monty cross his “friends” to get a full time gig?
It was more than 38k. Try around 43k. He worked, literally, 6 hours per week for that figure. I know this fact is troublesome for many, but it is a fact, nevertheless. Corby and Bob are employees. They are not management. Nothing they say or do has any bearing on corporate decisions. Davey is a host, he therefore earns more than a producer. Davey's addition had nothing whatsoever to do with Danny leaving. Danny's producer position was immediately filled. Neither Monty nor anyone else has any recourse, any access to a full time hosting position at another station. Those positions are all filled. If there was an opening, it would go to a known commodity, that is, someone who has worked as a daily host and has been at least somewhat successful at it. Neither Monty nor any other "JV" fills that bill. Please do not take this as an attack on your thoughts. It's just some of these tropes that are bandied about are plain incorrect. You are by no means the only one who believes such things. FWIW, I too think it suchs that Dan and Jake are gone.
It's sad if cumulus doesn't come back in to give enough. Dan McDowell is unique. And I'll miss him. Jake Kemp, on the other hand? Well. . . I'm sure someone out there will point out when some old guy isn't woke enough. Do we really need Jake for that?
Whether you like them, or not, they are midday hosts. In other words, no big deal. When the musers leave, the station is done.When midday throws a temper tantrum? Yawn. Monty is funny. We'll love him halfway through the noncompete.
In the wake of all of this Donnie sure seems to swing a big stick now, and rightfully so. For him to hold down 10-2 and now 12-3 in the wake of a couple of massive departures is a credit to his broadcasting ability. He like the Musers has an ability to procure interesting, thought provoking and entertaining segments time in and time out. I personally have enjoyed his recent chemistry with DJ, Sean, and Blake. That feels like a show to me. 12-3 with those 4? Sign me up.
I'm not sure what they're supposed to do, but it is odd to still get silence on air while the SportsDay app has the D&J resignation story front and center
Unless he’s saying they’re coming back for sure, which I doubt, I’m kinda shocked he’s gonna be addressing anything. Maybe a “we’re doing what we can, there’s a chance” and that’s it?
On the one hand, I don't get how addressing it without a conclusion would be productive at this point so I'm hoping they reached a deal. On the other hand, Corby would absolutely address it without a conclusion and think he's helping.
The email that everybody thinks is fake is real. They’ve addressed it internally, my guess is they haven’t addressed it externally, ie a press release, because that involves corporate HR, corporate legal, corporate PR, etc, all who want input and none of which care that this is trending on Twitter. My moneys on Corby rehashing the Dan Bennet email, they resigned, competing digital media, etc C
Just listened to the opening segment of yesterday’s Downbeat (you’re welcome) The first thing out of Sirois’s and Danny’s mouths were, “It is what it is”. Referring to Saquon’s tweet that The Hang Zone retweeted. They are the ultimate trolls.
C, to be fair you've been wrong throughout this whole process. You said Dan and Jake being out an extra day on 7/3 was because Cat messed up the vacation schedules
PART 1
ReplyDeleteThere will be a lot of opinions about this development and this is a good place to post them, so have at it. My own is that, unless they have a platform like the one they tried to invent at The Ticket for their new venture, they’re going to find it hard to monetize whatever they call their podcast or other digital offering. Tucker Carlson/Megyn Kelly they ain’t. But they’re not stupid, so maybe they do have a lifeline with some established content provider.
Whatever their risk, I do wish them luck. If their content is free I’ll at least check it out. But I’m kind of a busy guy. And with the exception of The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, and the execrable AZCentral (i.e., the Arizona Republic, the worst major-city daily newspaper I’ve ever encountered), I am not a paywall guy.
For the time being, I’d like to offer a technical comment:
We don’t know the exact wording of their noncompetes, which we would have to know in order to know what is or is not foreclosed to them for their noncompete period.
The world has changed rapidly, and language that made sense in the all-analogue era may not be broad enough to cover all of what the lads have planned, or covers it only ambiguously.
But one thing is clear: Cumulus clearly regarded the digital/podcast/on-air hybrid to be competitive with The Ticket, which means (since they’d be on air even under The Ticket’s preferred outcome, so we can factor that out) that it considers the digital/podcast element of their demand competitive with The Ticket.
PART 2
ReplyDeleteDan and Jake may not so regard it.
And if they don’t – and believe me, they’re probably already incurring some substantial start-up costs in what they’re paying lawyers to tell them what they can and can’t do – they may start their venture before a noncompete period expires. Again, please remember: A noncompete does NOT prohibit departing employees from PREPARING to compete. So they could run around and try to get financing or put together some kind of strategic partnership during that period – as long as they’re not competing with The Ticket’s on-air product.
But if they roll the dice on going live, it seems likely that Cumulus would sue them and seek a temporary restraining order, then preliminary injunction, then permanent injunction against them competing for the duration of the noncompete period. Who would win depends on the language of the noncompete, but if it’s competently drafted, Cumulus would win IF – big “if” – the court agrees that their digital/podcast product in fact competes with The Ticket. It is not inconceivable that even a properly-drafted noncompete that covers digital/podcast would be deemed too broad, and held to be unenforceable. I’m guessing it would be enforced – after all, Jake and Dan themselves sought to tie it to their broadcast obligations
Just sketching out a scenario that might emerge. Too many unknowns to predict the outcome, the main two being (1) what does the noncompete say, and (2) what are the lads actually doing during that six months. But one thing is certain: It will cost both sides tens of thousands of dollars (it has already), and, most likely, as Chris Chris would say, six figs.
6 months of no content would seem brutal to me. How do they recover from that? Wouldn’t their debut be a fart in the wind…
ReplyDeleteso are you are saying it's done & official based on source feedback or is this still conjecture?
ReplyDeleteLet's get down to the serious concerns.
ReplyDeleteWhat happens to Line 4 Guy?
Does Kid follow Dan and Jake or stay allied to the Ticket?
That was my last post on the previous thread before I saw this. If L4G goes, how do we know what is in Norm's underwear.
ReplyDeleteAnd, I am pretty sure, L4G, Kid and Computer are gone. And, who pays for The Crow Line?
I would say until Dan and Jake address it directly that it is just big league negotiations and it is not over yet.
ReplyDeleteCurious TP, with your connections, you come out with a post that they did not sign with the Freak yet you couldn't have just said they resigned from the Ticket? Seems premature IMO as if iHeart is serious about the Freak then they'd definitely throw their hat in the ring to try and lure D&J over.
ReplyDeleteI agree that an agreement is still in the cards but man I don't think Dan and Jake submit their resignations if there isn't another option out there for them
ReplyDeleteComputer isn't a loss IMO. I've never enjoyed his brand of sports fandom.
ReplyDeleteI don't think D & J are dumb so they've thought about this move. One thing that seems to consistent is people talking about how well Dan knows the radio business. We've heard it from Bob, Jake, and even the OGW that Dan knows his stuff. If they've read the signs correctly is another matter of course but I doubt they did this without due thought. Didn't Jake put in his 2 weeks before he re-upped last summer? I seem to remember that it got that close to him leaving but they came to a deal at the 11th hour.
For a station that until 3-4 years ago considered themselves to be special for the consistency of their line-ups, a lot has changed with the departure of Rhyner.
ReplyDeleteIn the dust:
-Old Grey Wolf
-Norman
-Dan McDowell
-Jake Kemp
-Big Dumb Danny
-Big Strong Jer
Tier 4 cast offs include
Sirois
Julie Dobbs
That's a lot of talent to let go... and i would argue that of all that, the biggest loss would be the fun of WTDS and the bet payoffs for picking games.
As much as i'm meh about Dan and Jake together, it's hard to deny that losing them is a big blow.
Craytrey too
DeleteWow, I’m stunned. I don’t care what kind of deal they have in place, it’s not going to work out long term for them. Being on the Ticket is special and unless someone else doubled your salary and promised you that you won’t be fired ever it’s not worth it! Dan and Jake would have been safe on the Ticket until both retired. They could have even taken over for the Musers once they retired. The worst decision in the history of DFW media.
ReplyDeleteHi, Cat.
DeleteYou have a lot of faith in the long-term viability of terrestrial radio, not to mention Cumulus, 10:44.
ReplyDeleteMaybe at Dan's age it makes sense to ride it out ... and that's a maybe. For Jake? No way he can count on an AM radio career carrying him to 65.
The Ticket is a carve out…the exception to the rule!
Delete@1044
ReplyDeleteThey bring up barstool, Mcafee and others weekly. Dan knows what Jake makes off of IJB's patreon and that's just one show a week.
Someone mentioned yesterday about Jake not wanting to leave the security of TT because of benefits--when the benefits are not great at the Ticket. His wife's benefits are better and he has that as a backstop. Dan's wife still teaches so his wife and daughters can transition to her benefits as a life event.
I don't like seeing people in the comments calling these guys "dumb". They've weighed the costs of doing this but I guess as a P1 what concerns me just as the former Ticket people going to TF is you're burning the boats. I "think" there will be solidarity from TT hosts about Cumulus not paying Jake now that Norm's salary is off the books. Also looking at things in an acturial sense, the costs to the company for Norm's medical procedures over the years has been pretty substantial as well.
This is a tough one for me as THZ is my favorite show. Now it's just tuning in to the Musers and then going to podcasts until trying to decide if I'm listening to HL or DB that day.
I'm so scared baby.
Agan, someone stating as fact something they know nothing about. The cost of Norm's health issues sbd procedures. Do you know how insuramce works? Goid lord. I'm scared for you to, but for different reasons.
DeleteI agree that Dan & Jake are interested in expanding the ways that their content can be consumed. They’ve responded with angst when P1s have asked about live video or full segment downloads (however, their website does have a lot of content, just not as quickly as one might want.)
ReplyDeleteI also think that both guys have enough common sense to not flush a stable future at The Ticket down the toilet in the hopes of going fully online with their content. There is money to be made in the podcast world but not a few hundred thousand per year to pay salaries and everything else that might come along with running your own show.
10:44, That could potentially be a long wait time for a spot that is not guaranteed. What's the timeline for the Musers right now? 10 years from retiring? the Hardline isn't going anywhere unless they get fired.
ReplyDeleteRight now, the Musers are the flagship program on the Ticket and the station is teetering with a lot of uncertainty.
@1044 when the Musers retire, I'm not sure that TT doesn't start folding. You have a lot of talent in their mid 50's so while the demise of TT isn't imminent, we're within a 10 year radius. These guys talk retirement a few times a year and none of them outside of Bob seem like lifers.
ReplyDeleteI sometimes wonder why the younger guys--Mino, Monty, etc aren't podcasting and building a brand. I see a world where Mino never gets a payday and that honestly saddens me.
Listeners just don’t change their habits. Norm’s show was unlistenable, but still pulled in top ratings because people are engraned to listen to the Ticket. Even the Old Gray Wolf hasn’t been able to get people to listen to him. My prediction is they will show up on the Freak in January. They will be doing morning drive.
ReplyDeletePoor Sirois. He probably cried himself to sleep last night. He just had to hang on for another year! No way he would not have gotten a gig with 2 shows being open.
ReplyDeleteJeff - are we really acting like Dan & Jake are the same as Machine & Sirois? because they ain't.
ReplyDelete1106 - acting like the only reason people listened to Norm was because they forgot to change their dial is dumb. dude clearly had a following, most of them just aren't in your age group.
@HerpDerp
ReplyDeleteThe number of people that have left in a relatively short time is what makes me wonder about something other than money is the issue. Some of them were for sure money and maybe Cumulus just has a number they won't go over for anyone? It's doubtful barring someone doing a tell-all interview that we'll get the whole story.
@Jeff--Norm is an icon. You're belittling him saying the only reason he got ratings was because he was on TT. From all indications he brought in serious money and gave a lot back to charity as well. Would you rather spend your money with Norm's advertisers or the ones sponsoring other shows? Even Norm leaving the way he did is peculiar--announcing less than two weeks later he was going to start podcasting. Just because you don't listen to him doesn't mean he isn't going to have a following there as well.
ReplyDelete@KDF--with their stock being unstable, I'm doubting Cumulus is willing to go above what the most recent contracts are at which for Jake would be unacceptable. Guy took over at the wrong time and was underpaid. He hasn't seen a real Ticket payday yet.
How do you know Jake's salary and benefits? You don't. Stop this.
Delete@1112
ReplyDeleteDan & Jake are definitely light years ahead of those two when it comes to talent. My point was that they’ve (or at least Jake’s side of things) tried a podcast network before that includes more than one show and it didn’t take off - so - they are at least aware of how difficult that route can be. I’m saying that I don’t think they’d give up on The Ticket to go to a strictly podcast format.
@1120 - I’m not that guy, pal. Someone else made the Norm comments.
ReplyDeleteKDF, there is a pay inequity that bothers some of them(Sirois and Danny were the first to finally throw in the towel and Jillian left around the same time period).
ReplyDeleteI can't be sure this is something that Catlin and Bennett can do anything about as it's above their heads. There is probably a consulting company telling Cumulus that they have two strong anchors and can put a lower paid show in the middle without losing much. Not having D&J and Norm on the payroll is a significant savings to Cumulus that I'm not sure would impact the ratings significantly enough to have kept them all.
Scattershooting while wondering if Norm has announced where his podcast is going to be produced? I have no insight here, but it would be very interesting to see Norm having TC produce/distribute his podcast through the Blowout Podcast Network and then having HZ join in and putting all of it behind a paywall/patreon. Norm/HZ/IJB all in one digital location starts to have a little more draw than a sirois/machine et al... For those of you that don't fancy TC, he has become an excellent broadcast/podcast host (IMHO) and he legitimately knows the podcast space.
ReplyDeleteDiscuss amongst yourselves.
DP - i thought folks had all but said Norm's podcast was going to be under Friedo's production company?
ReplyDelete11:37-Certainly possible, I don't really know anything about his production company but that would make more sense than my hypothetical based on their past relationship.
ReplyDeleteyes, will be with Friedo
ReplyDeleteStupid move if true. Anything that gives us more Sean Bass on air is a disaster. We’ll always have BaD Radio. Tear!
ReplyDeleteI’m curious how this affects Jakes current podcast IJB? If he’s not an employee of Cumulus, can he still operate it? And what is to stop Dan from appearing on said podcast? That may all be specified in the non-compete but just something that occurred to me. Apologies if this has already been addressed. Thanks
ReplyDeleteP.S. This is my first time back to MTC in a few years. I forgot how much I missed it and the people who contribute to it.
An Ep of IJB dropped yesterday, but I don’t sub on patreon.
ReplyDeleteNo new IJB patreon yesterday. They did post the video of an older recording yesterday though.
ReplyDeleteThere are no new episodes of IJB up since 7/12, and no new patreon episodes since 7/6
ReplyDeleteInteresting point about the non-compete and digital content. I'll say this, if they start something during the non-compete period, it is clearly a grey area. And if Cumulus then tried to enforce it, that would probably be the day I turn off the Ticket for good. I'll already be listening far less after this move. Just a brain dead decision to let these guys walk by the idiots in charge at Cumulus. If their garbage app and signal wasn't proof enough to the masses that Cumulus doesn't care about the listener - this should do it.
ReplyDeleteNo HZ open at noon today. No funeral.
ReplyDeleteHands down the best opening in the history of the Ticket
DeleteBen and Skin had a podcast called The Non-Compete during theirs, FWIW.
ReplyDeleteGordon didn’t show up for his 1215 Tuesday segment. Was advertised on the ticket twitter post this morning. Solidarity?
ReplyDeleteWould you want to be a guest on Diamond Talk?
DeleteThis 5 hour dry dock style show is really really bad. In my estimation I may be going somewhere else for my sports talk 10 - 3
ReplyDeleteAnd stop listening to the station
DeleteBrutal
DeleteIn my estimation
ReplyDeleteJake (and the rest of the hosts) routinely states how awful Cumulus health ins benefits are. And there have been plenty of allusions to him not getting host money when he started
ReplyDeleteLooking back now, this is the exact same thing that happened to Mark Davis at WBAP. His contract was up, Cumulus wouldn't meet his demands and he walked, sat out his six months, and ended up at KSKY. He went from the number one talker (at the time) to a station that shares ratings with The Freak or less. We should have seen this coming.
ReplyDeleteBTW: I hope Corby is taking notes.
Cumulus benefits may be bad, but how are benefits at Dan + Jake, Inc.? Sooner or later, they'll have to price insurance if they're going to get some kind of employer plan. Of course, we don't know who that eventual employer is going to be, so maybe they'll be better off. And, as someone noted, spouses may have plans that will be satisfactory to them.
ReplyDeleteYou know, men and women, if Dan and Jake are reading comments like those that have appeared here the last few days, and I assume on Reddit and elsewhere, they're giggling up their sleeves because they know what their plans are, and we don't. They like those plans for reasons of their own of which we are all ignorant.
ReplyDeleteIt's fun to speculate on their motivations, strategies, future. It must be, because I get hundreds of comments here within hours of each post. But in terms of illuminating reality . . . not really so very much.
Just a hunch, but I'm not sure Cumulus is the cash cow it used to be in a changing media landscape. Clearly Dan and Jake have impressive resumes, and they probably have an expectation as to what their market value is. If the well is drying up at Cumulus, the offers Dan and Jake may have received could have been significant pay cuts, and with the way the winds are blowing they might not see long term viability at KTCK any longer. I know the Ticket has been sort of a sacred cow for a long time, but change was always inevitable, and as much as we associate dyed in the wool Ticket guys with the Ticket, they're also individuals with families. It was easy to forget that this is a business just like any other during the halcyon days of the Ticket, but I'm sure there's a lot we don't know about the radio industry that happens just beneath the surface.
ReplyDeleteScattershooting while wondering if we're having fun here, no?
ReplyDelete1. This is an inference, but my suspicion is that the true crux of the problem (the bitching about benefits, etc being a sideshow) is that under current contracts with Cumulus, the talent was/is not restricted from stuff like podcasting, twitch, etc while employed by KTCK. The biggest tell is everything Gordon has been doing off to the side lately. From Cumulus's perspective, I suspect that set-up is not optimal. If they are paying for talent, then it stands to reason that they would want to control all delivery channels in which that talent participates. That's all a rather long-winded way of saying that the folks who have real seats (Tier 1 if you like, and maybe some of the Tier 2 folks? I'm not really sure) and binding employment contracts with Cumulus are probably all going to take up this battle with the CTOs as their contracts turn over. I wouldn't think this would be an issue with the Tier 3 and Tier 4 folks who I suspect are generally at-will type employees, and in any event, I think that the CTO would have a hard time enforcing those restrictions given the relative peanuts they seem to pay those folks.
Reading between the lines, I think Jake's participation in IJB and anything similar is a problem for Cumulus unless they control the revenue stream. I'm not saying they're right or wrong, but it's not hard to understand why that would be the case. Jake I suspect wants to be able to make more money and one way to do that is to monetize his audience through Patreon.
2. There's a lot of "certainly" and "definitely" being thrown around in this thread about non-competes and legal rules by people who have no idea what they are talking about. Without reading DaJ's contracts with Cumulus, no one can be sure of anything. Having said that, it's interesting that so many folks (Jake himself, Gordon, etc.) have been appearing through other channels seemingly without a problem with KTCK for a while.
3. The economics of the "go it alone" route seem very challenging to me. Take the June radio ratings recently released as a snapshot - THZ got an 8.3 share of men 25-54 (meaning 8.3% of men 25-54 who were listening to the radio during that window were listening to the THZ). I'm not a radio ratings expert, but that seems like a great number.
I don't know what DaJ make - but it feels like in the past numbers in the multiple hundreds of thousands for Tier 1 hosts have been thrown around. Just to put a hypothetical together, let's assume that Dan was earning $300,000 and Jake was earning $200,000. That's before 401K matching, cost of health insurance, etc - if you go it alone, those costs come off of the top line before you put dollars in your pocket. And then you have to hire producers and potentially other talent. Let's just be conservative and assume DaJ want to clear what they've been clearing plus pay some other talent etc. Maybe that means $700,000 in revenue? If you're selling subscriptions through Patreon at $100 per year or something, you've gotta sell 7,000 just to get to where you are today.
Based on some quick research, about 55% of the DFW population is between 25-54, and a little under half of those are men. So call it 27% of the DFW population (7.76 million) or about 2 million men. I could see how DaJ could squint at that number and say we can sell a $10 per month subscription to 1 in 300 of them. I can already see some of the counter arguments people might make to this thought exercise: (1) their listeners aren't all men, (2) they could have more appeal than just DFW folks. (1) is a fair point, but let's be honest about the lion's share of their listeners. (2) is speculative at best and I think gets to the heart of the issue.
(continued)
(above continued)
ReplyDeleteMany of DaJ's listeners (I have no idea how many) are bought in and listening to DaJ not because of DaJ but because they have some sense of belonging to KTCK as a P1. They may like or even love DaJ. But part of what makes DaJ special is they are part of the crowd. For most of its successful history, the Ticket hasn't really been in the business of selling disparate shows to its listeners; it's been rather more like selling access to a private club where there is a recurring series of hosts at different hours of the day. Sure there's some normalcy in the schedule, and they all have their own bits and programming, but what makes the whole thing special is how the tapestry is woven together.
With his podcast (and to a bigger extent now at the Freak) Rhyner has learned the hard way that when you're on a platform, you can't just hit the ejector button and assume that everyone consuming you through the platform is loyal to you rather than the platform. Professional services firms and organizations with sales functions learn this the hard way all of the time - they pay someone some big sign on bonuses expecting all of their relationships to be portable and then learn that like everything else in life some of those relationships were way more complicating and interconnected with their colleagues.
I think DaJ are both smart guys - I think they understand that you can't risk-weight all of that stuff at zero.
Accordingly, it would be really surprising to me if they're not going to attach themselves to some sort of existing platform.
Don't bring up Mike's podcast. It jumped between like 3 networks, was never really consistent after it left The Athletic and was one of the worst done podcasts I've heard because the host didn't really care.
ReplyDeleteI'd love to hear from someone who knows more than me about this: I wonder what effect Clay Travis's career arc has had on this situation. Not trying to get political, and I know Dan and others have taken shots at him on air, but I wonder how much input either directly, or as an example of the possibilities he's had. I'll take my answer off the air.
ReplyDelete@The Thermostat I agree completely on all points except the salary numbers. There's no way they were making half a million combined, 350K is probably more realistic. That's still over 3K subscribers needed at $10 per month, but IJB has nearly 900 on Patreon.
ReplyDeleteNo way. I bet Dan was between 350 and 400k himself.
DeleteCan someone do a service for the P1 and listen to the Downbeat today. (I know it’s asking a lot) But, I could see them talking about Dan and Jake today. I mean, they do say what they want and they know people are interested.
ReplyDeleteCryptic HZ twitter activity
ReplyDelete@Thermostat- Jake isn't making 200k my man and that's a big issue. I also find it hard to believe Dan is at 350k.
ReplyDeleteRegarding benefits, they have wives so they can go on their insurance, I'm not sure why some see that as a sticking point. It doesn't seem like Cumulus has great benefits.
The PMan has inferred, 99.5% of us here know nothing, we're all guessing. These guys know when their contracts come up what leverage will be used to keep the employer from increasing their salaries. As I regard Jake as a decent economist, this has been bubbling up for him since his first contract and getting what he is deserved. Dan went through this before with Bob and they ended up taking less to stat at TT. With their connections in media, the numbers were crunched and a decision was made by them. I think the fact it hasn't been announced by Cumulus that negotiations are not dead.
Regarding the difference between Gordo's Twitch & Discord vs. what Cumulus probably wants all of its employees to do regarding income--Gordo is donating all funds to charity. I think that was a genius way to dip his toes into the water and see what is out there and/or would happen come next contract.
Look at leveraging--noone else on air at the Ticket has been successful at podcasting. Corby stopped after 5(?), Davy's is/was so niche there's a minor following, and noone else is worth mentioning. I'm guessing Jake's part of IJB is 2k or more which obviously is peanuts in the grand scheme of things but if aligned with a network and talent, could match or surpass his income from TT.
But again, this could just be a leverage play for a bigger contract and I respect the hell out of D&J for not blinking. There is something going on at TT that precedes this which is crazy to me with where the ratings are at.
@242 Yeah, IJB makes $4,153.13 per month from Patreon (as you said 2k for Jake)
ReplyDeleteThey have been shedding Patreon contributors. They were over 1000 at one point and now around 900.
DeleteThe thing with most of those failed podcast is they were never really committed to it. People are creature of habit and consistency is a massive factor in success of any online venture. With the IJB background (and the fact it would be replacing their full time jobs) I'm confident that won't be an issue for Dan and Jake if that's the route they go. They'll be consistent and grow their audience.
ReplyDeleteStill hoping there's a last minute compromise by both sides to avoid this whole thing!
I wonder what the overall compensation cost is for the ticket P&L going forward vs pre Norm retirement. Seems like they are going to have significant less costs going forward unless they have an external hire with a proven track record
ReplyDeleteNice work, The Thermostat.
ReplyDeleteI'm going to echo what the one commenter (I'm assuming it's the same person) keeps saying: There seems to be a whole lot of talking out of one's ass going on here where salaries, real or imagined inequalities, benefits, dues paid, lifestyles, etc., are concerned. A whole hell of a lot. I wish it would stop. The level of "expertise" on any of the above by nearly all commenters saying such things hovers around zero. It's one thing to state an opinion, to prognosticate, to ask rhetorical or semi-rhetorical questions, and to engage in good old fashioned speculation. That's the fun of a page such as this. It's another to claim implicitly or explicitly something based on conjecture as fact. Everyone's a fucking expert now on everything, it seems. Well, like the 56 year old saying the 50s are the new 30s, it might make you feel good for whatever reason, but it has no bearing on the veracity of claim. All it does is engender pissing matches that detract from genuinely fruitful discussion. OK. I'll get of the soapbox.
As to the matter at hand, I'm very sorry to see THZ go. Even though so very many of his predictions and projections of players, teams, and trends turn out to be wrong, I do enjoy Jake's Cowboys and Mavs talks. His passion is contagious. I also like the way Dan, while having an eye to the more analytical side of things, still maintains an older school eyeball test view of sports. The two balance each other out nicely. I won't miss all the bogging by Dan. But over all, I'll miss the show.
I keep thinking that surely they have something firm in place, else why go this route? This is specially the case with Dan. We'll probably never know the full extent of the story, (what follows is opinion, not a fact) but something about the whole situation seems off. Be it on Cumulus's end or THZ's. Have you yourself or have you known anyone who tried to get/got out of a relationship either by forcing the partner to end things via acting shitty or by purposely searching for a fatal flaw that doesn't really exist in order to say you were forced to end things as you can't abide by this fatal flaw? I haven't, but I've witnessed it on several occasions thoughout my life. I can't shake the feeling that something like this happened here. Which side pulled one of these tactics? That I don't know.
Whatever may come, The Ticket will go on and in all likelihood will continue to dominate in all day parts. I'm sad to say that I'm not sure the same can be said for THZ boys. Not because they lack the talent. They don't. It's just that's how things usually shake out in these situations. To put it in Dan's parlance, "it's just the way it is." Dan very well be his own prophet.
@239, care to elaborate on this cryptic twitter stuff?
ReplyDeleteAnon 2:26, I do not doubt you, although, I think that is low. During Greggo days, he said he gave up $500k. Now, that is probably Greggo hyperbole, but still, that may have been remotes, commercials, etc. I have no clue how that works.
ReplyDeleteAbsolutely, could be that those types of salaries are for #1 drive time shows. I would not be surprised if the Musers had some sort of kicker in their contract for a bonus for winning a Marconi. Nor, would I doubt others get a kiss when they are rated number 1 in the market or the station wins a Marconi.
At this point, since all insiders appear to be silent, We don't know.
Now, I would not be surprised to see something from RW on the matter. It is in the open, and he likes to be the news breaker. And, he could give insight on what folks actually make. I am not sure he has any bridges left to burn, so he might be inclined to divulge that info.
It appears Dan is still prepping WTDS for Corby unless it’s a bit by Corby…
ReplyDeleteWe know for certain (unless Dan was lying) that in June 2013 the Fan offered Bob and Dan $100,000 MORE than the offer they got from Cumulus
ReplyDeleteI would also put Dan in the $300K at least camp
Perhaps this is the cryptic twitter activity 239 referred to, though it's from yesterday and I'm just now noticing it. Both Dan and Jake retweeted Saquon Barkley tweeting "It is what it is". I hadn't seen that mentioned here.
ReplyDeleteYup that’s it
Delete315 here. Just realized that while Barkley's tweet was from yesterday, the HZ boys likely retweeted it just a while ago.
ReplyDelete(That's per year)
ReplyDeleteThat’s what it is 3:15. Saquon’s deal didn’t get done so…
ReplyDeleteMan oh man, sakes alive! Reddit is on fire! Master's theses on -- The End of The Ticket, I Am a D1P1 and This is the Saddest Day In Ever and Now I'm Done with the Station, I Will Die on a Hill with Dan and Jake, and on and on.
ReplyDeleteClip and save this, Surly. That way next time you won't make the same mistake re: what was being said during The Disturbance.
Hoping so badly they go TF the second they're legally able. Then RW will have been one hundo. Too funny. Thought we were gonna get a real deal radio war when TF came online. Was a pity they sucked and continue to suck, making that good time all but impossible. THZ to TF will change all that.
https://www.dmagazine.com/sports/2023/07/the-ticket-kemp-mcdowell-1310/
ReplyDeleteWow. That D Magazine article is absolutely well sourced since Jake writes for them and no way they run it without confirmation. Sad day, indeed. Stay hard, Hang Zone!
ReplyDeleteDefinitely trying to strong arm Cumulus into a deal. Like Mark Davis learned, it didn’t work. It won’t work for D & J either. Best of luck to them. Another station in a few months or podcasting seems all but certain.
ReplyDeletePiellucci worded that like he knows what's next for them (would make sense, I'm sure Jake talks to his editor at least semi-regularly). If they have something lined up that they're telling friends about, sounds like a done deal.
ReplyDeleteHopefully this means more Monty
ReplyDeletePSC needs to bring back GIML for this.
ReplyDeleteJake's brother's Twitter likes suggest this is done and dusted and not a negotiating tactic
ReplyDeleteThinking DnJ are going to want a do over sooner rather than later. They've grossly overvalued their brand and talents. It's not going to surprise me in the least if something's hammered out over the weekend. It's also not going to surprise me if they fade off into oblivion like so many others. Oh sure at first it'll be all kisses and kudos. The first few months might be gold. But it'll be fool's gold. That'll die down in short order. Then the reality of a daily pod and-or working on a station that is a loser with a bunch of people who really aren't 'your sorta people' will set in. Next comes the inevitable inertia and sludgy numbers. Finally the parting of ways. Dan doesn't know what else to do so he's taken a job a KCRAP in Lansing, MI. Jake on the other hand and with his MA in hand, gets out of the game entirely. You watch.
ReplyDeleteAll I have to say is if The Freak is silent about this big shakeup, then I think DaJ are going to TF.
ReplyDeleteCome on! The station that can "say what they want" goes quiet on one of the biggest shakeups at their DIRECT competition?? No way!
We need a loyal MTC-er to sacrifice some brain and listening power and check out TF for a bit and report to us if they talk about it. If not, RW was right.
I listened for a segment to get off the beat down that was 10-3. The beginning of the show they did make reference to the Saquon retweet “it’s just business” a few times. Outside that no mention I heard but I did not keep listening. I may catch up via podcast later because the iHeart app is not very fun to use
DeleteIdea. Why don't you do it?
ReplyDeletehttps://www.dallasnews.com/arts-entertainment/2023/07/18/jake-kemp-and-dan-mcdowell-resign-from-the-ticket/
ReplyDeleteSo, is this now the official "official" announcement?
@4:55 I work from home so I guess I can fire up the browser, but man, not sure if I can. Such a hard listen.
They're Freak bound. They've been Freak bound since the inception of The Freak. Whitt was dead on correct. The demands they were making were laughable. They knew their demands were laughable. The entire negotiating process that began in December was a farce. It was a farce because there should not have been any negotiations going on in the first place. They began the process of trying to renegotiate their contracts with the intent on coming to an impasse in order to resign and in doing so not coming off as the bad guy because we all know it's always The Man's fault.
ReplyDeleteBased on the DMN article, it reads like Sean and Donnie are the new 12-3 show.
ReplyDeleteAnd so, does that mean WiP now get the 10-noon slot?
ReplyDeleteOh. No. SaD. Cat, buddy, you just made your first misstep in quite some time. Bad decision, coach.
ReplyDeleteThat better be fucking temporary….Black and Quack would be way better. Just move Sean back into the producer role.
ReplyDeleteWhy did plainsman think no freak then I wonder?
ReplyDeleteum
ReplyDeletehttps://twitter.com/sportssturm/status/1681436375864995840?s=46&t=HHkL9Y6Y83cjHr1EMrqYLg
BELIEVE!
DeleteUm, yeah. OK. I appreciate Bob's optimism, but he's pissing up a rope and into the wind here. They were gone a year ago when TF was being put together. This was the plan. That's something Bob's going to have to come to terms with at some point. A bitter pill to swallow, indeed.
ReplyDeletesurely bob isn't that delusional. OTOH facing down the horror of having sean bass as your lead in would make anyone crazy
ReplyDeleteEnd of an era for sure. RIP Trajan 25% imaginary bonuses.
ReplyDeleteSomething is going down. Corby just now joke tweeted about Jake coupled with Bob's Believe tweet. I bet the Cumulus brass outside of DFW were shocked at the reaction and decided to go all in at the 11th hour.
ReplyDeleteTHZ back on The Ticket Thursday.
https://twitter.com/corbydavidson/status/1681443664927809536?s=20
getting weirder by the minute.
ReplyDeleteWhacha got, GN? C? Bring it.
ReplyDeleteYep, Bob and Corb don’t tweet those unless they’re staying
ReplyDeleteCorrect me if I'm wrong- the only T1 that went the way of holdouts due to contract discussions were
ReplyDelete1. BaD (Fan was offering more money, and a drivetime spot?, in the end they chose to stay)
2. Jake (this ones a bit hazy but I thought he did sit a few days out after getting the bump to host - I know he got the gig early 2020 then, well, y'know- all hosts were doing what they could for those Bora Bora trips. But I could have sworn he was negotiating a solo raise in pay).
& now 3. HangZone. "Discussions began monthes ago". They(the entire station) were pulling in never-before-seen numbers. Another competing station had been created, with all their shows having past employees in bigger roles (a few of those were even massive Ticket favorites).
I really wonder if D & J felt: slighted in pay, the need to take their talents to a drivetime spot somewhere. Im having a hard time thinking this is all because of Cumulus balking at regards to digital avenues, a podcast, option to put previous shows on their own managed site.
Anyway - yea, this sucks. c-ya, Viktor and Jake.
This got even weirder so quickly
ReplyDeleteSlighted in pay. Gets funnier and funnier with every mention.
ReplyDeleteDo you know where Dan alone lives? I do. Ditto Jake. Not their actual houses mind you. But I know the area.
Bunch of ding dongs.
They are no different than the athletes they talk about. Money is how they keep score.
ReplyDeleteWhat about Sean Bass's Living Wage? Talk about paying dues. Talk about loyalty.
ReplyDeleteI never hear dick about him or Ty. Rich Phillips had to go away. All of them want to be hosts. Where's the crying? Where's the outrage? The demands for evil Cat, evil Bennett, evil Cumulus to do the right thing? Why aren't people standing up and shouting to the rooftops that if Jake and Dan actually cared, they'd give part of their salary to Ty. Same with Donnie to Sean.
Bunch of f'n hypocrites.
Dam and Jake DO help pay their crew.
DeleteShocking to learn that people care about hosts they tune in to hear and not background lower tier employees. What are you going to bring up next, the janitors?
ReplyDeleteSo Sean and Ty don't have shows, never had shows huh? Ditto Rich? Go home, chump. By your logic the same has to be said of Julie, Danny, and Sirois. Get yer shinebox, little boy.
ReplyDeleteIt's now being reported on Radio Insight. I have to think it's all over and that any last minute reprieve is merely wishful thinking on TT staff and our parts. As Florida Evans yelled upon leanring the news that James died: Damn! Damn! Damn! Damn!
ReplyDeleteJust damn.
11 hours ago
Delete^^^^^^^^^ Right there with you, brutha.
ReplyDelete11 hrs ago?
ReplyDeleteThis is how Corby ended today's HL, and I quote: "Everybody hold a good thought for those that need to be held a good thought for. Put your hands tightly together put your little head down and say there’s a chance."
ReplyDeleteMan, this might not be over yet. MIGHT NOT. Let's all come together and get that positivity flowing.
“Now being reported by radio insight” = reported on 11 hours ago by radio insight
ReplyDeleteFor those of you that are not fans of college football this is what recruiting season is like.
ReplyDelete@7:11 anon I know you have a childlike mentality based on your unprovoked ad hominems but since you brought up Dan and Jake giving up part of their salary, here you go from someone who was the beneficiary: https://twitter.com/JulieAnnDobbs/status/1681454062871674883?t=YI2SX3xesE75uzDEh3wnww&s=19
ReplyDeleteI hope Dam is back on TT tomorrow.
ReplyDeleteI have it in excellent authority that the email that was posted that everybody thinks is fake is completely the genuine article and should be taken at face value. In other words, Dan and Jake turned in resignation letters and they are gone. That process has started, and it may not be reversible, depending on the wording of the letter. The fact that we’ve now seen articles in both the DMN and D magazine makes it more likely that this can’t be walked back. I really doubt this is a last minute ploy, I’m told the process of moving endorsements has already started. That wouldn’t happen if negotiations are on going in some way. I think clearly that whatever THZ demands were, the “competing digital interests” were a bridge too far for Cumulus to swallow. Will be interesting to see if THZ ever reveals what that demand was.
ReplyDeleteC
Julie ought to stay in her rather restricted lane, stop signalling, and focus real hard on her own show. But that's not TF way. And since TF way is to put carts before horses, I wonder if she's inadvertantly spilled the beans? Defending a new teammate?
ReplyDeleteIf she’s defending a new teammate it’s going to be real awkward with her current teammates. I find it highly unlikely that a station that is down 30-40% from what the Eagle made has room for another couple HIGH salaries. If TF adds THZ, you can kiss goodbye either Cavanaugh and KT or Ben and Skin. Unless iheart management secretly has a kink fetish of being humiliated and losing money at the same time. There’s wild ass salary numbers being thrown around for THZ and TF staff. Whatever number you want to pick, contrast that with their billing which is in pace to be someplace north of 5 million this year. THZ may be headed to the Freak. But if do, there’s a revolving door and someone else is in their way out
DeleteC
I'll be fighting at Fight Night, maybe I'll bring this up in the ring? Put Gordo on the spot?
ReplyDeleteUnprovoked? All half of you morons fart on about is some fantasy land where Dam and Jake are underprivileged waifs begging for crumbs from their evil overlords. Julie is from a very wealthy family. So is Kelly. They are upper upper middle class themselves. She was doing just fine without Dam and Jake's kindness. It was damn decent of Dam and Jake to throw some bones to their support staff like they did. Heckuva gesture, Brownie. No one well at least not me has said they aren't good dudes. Please try not to drown in the kiddie pool, sonny boy. Guess I hit too close to home for ya.
ReplyDeleteYeah it's most likely over. If Cumulus didn't budge on THZ's demands before, they're not going to magically change their minds now. Just let them go and move on...it could be better for both sides long-term. If THZ stuck around for another contract, they would just go through this same thing in a few years. As a midday show, there's a ceiling that they can't overcome and there's nothing that can be done unless AM/PM drive became available. If THZ is going to pursue a podcast and do whatever they can to bet on themselves then good for them. TBD if it will be successful but I can't blame them for taking a shot after maxing out at The Ticket.
ReplyDeleteAnd as for the station, this is a good opportunity for them to "get younger at the position" and really start developing their talent for the future. Instead of a roster of hosts 50 and older + Jake, now they can mix in some younger hosts and give them more air-time. If I'm Mino, Monty, DJ, Blake, etc. I'm loving it right now because there should be plenty of opportunities now and in the coming years.
That's not encouraging, C. But I agree that once the news hit the DMN, Barrett's, Dmag, and Radio Insights it does seem like it's too late to walk back from the precipice. I highly doubt we'll ever get the full story. Events like this rarely, if ever, are given full sun. Despite the now overwhelming amount of venomous, angry, trolling, and just downright asinine comments over the past week or so, I do think the nearly all of us can find concord in that we're all going to sorely miss Dan and Jake. And not only that, but also, this station that we one and all are so passionate about (to the point of lunacy in some cases, I'm sad to say) will never be quite the same. Sure, in due time it'll be business as usual. But there'll be that certain ephemeral quality that just isn't quite there like it once was. We've already felt this rather keenly with Rhyner's departure, then Danny's, then Sirois', and Julie's too. And well, The Freak thing took us all aback. Change is inevitable, all things must pass. I for one am very sad to see it go. But there's also gratitude and hope. Gratitude for the gift we've all been freely given that is The Ticket. Hope in that perhaps now room will be made for new voices; new voices that we rally around and who become the next generation's Rhyner's, Gordo's, George's, Dan's, and all the rest.
ReplyDeleteAnyways. I do hope everyone will take a deep breath and calm down. I love MTC, but this past week or so has been somewhat of a black mark. We're Confessors. We're better than this.
I think Corby’s hints at a reversal are more a reflection of his ego than of reality. He seems to have taken on the role of some kind of closer that can talk Dan and Jake into lessening their demands and coming back into the fold. Naturally, he has no doubts about his own power of persuasion.
ReplyDelete@908
ReplyDeleteThanks for that, brutha. Well said. Much needed.
Agreed, and I think the predictions of the Tickets collapse (if not here, def over on Reddit) is premature. I like to remind people that Greggo was on air for 13 years. He’s been OFF the station for 16. If you’re the midpoint of the M25-54 demo as a 40 year old you’ve never heard the Hammer while you were in the demo. Maybe as a kid, but really how many 7, 14 or even 19 year olds are huge p1’s? My point being that Greggo was a huge part for a certain audience. But things changed, and there’s a generation (or more) that only knows Mike and Corby or Bob and Corby as the Hardline. It sucks to lose THZ, but from the leaked memo they have a norm replacement already picked. Now the Cat has to find 2 more quality dudes. But new listeners are constantly being added. In 10 years they’ll have to explain who the Hang zone was.
ReplyDeleteC
I'd bet it's more like 3-5 years. Lets remember THZ has been a show for just a smidgeon over 3 years.
DeleteI wonder how much of that played into the negotiations. If they’d been negotiating with BAD radio, on air for 20 years, ratings success, etc, would things be different than negotiating with a show with a much smaller track record.
DeleteC
All due respect to the great C, and I may be biased from my own personal experience. But I’m 40 and have been listening from jumpstreet. My old man had 1310 on in the car, in the garage, at home. I member Greg and Rocco and GXD on tickers on THL and Musers prank call of the week and plenty of other good stuff from the 90s KTCK. There are more of us than you think
DeleteThat being said, when my kids get in the car and I have the little one on, they moan that it’s “the boring guys talking about the Cowboys” so I’m not doing my part in making new P1s
I’ll try to remember to look up numbers tomorrow. But the majority of ticket listeners are historically 35 plus. I think there’s a lot fewer of you than you think
DeleteC
There are dozens of us. Dozens!
DeleteRemember:
ReplyDeleteIf you go high enough up the chain of command, somebody somewhere can reverse the seemingly irreversible with the stroke of a pen.
So yeah...I'm just gonna wait and see, thanks.
Um, you're welcome? Odd flex.
DeletePart of the reason I refuse to buy into the “this is the end of TT” is the Greggo situation. The Rhyner situation. The Danny/Sirois “they’re losing all their upcoming talent” situation. So many this is the beginning of the end doomsayers, and yet the ticket is coming off a 6 month run of absolute ratings DOMINATION. They weren’t just the expected #1 in their demo, they were number one OVERALL. I said it yesterday, inertia is a hell of a thing. Listeners tune in to the Ticket for a mix of sports and to be entertained. The Fan is more straight sports and does well, if not spectacularly. The Freak has the opposite mix of TT, leaning much more on trying to be entertaining, with sports as their filler. Until TF changes their mix, there’s a healthy percentage of TT listeners that want sports, and won’t care about THZ opinions on crap like the most overrated food group. There is a market in this town for sports talk. The question is is there room for 3 sports talk stations. (KESN says no). Tell me why people who want the 70/30 sports to Schtick ratio of the ticket are suddenly going to flock to TF if they’re 30/70 the other way. They’re competitors, but arguably not offering the same product. I’m just not sure sports listeners are going to give up their sports news and discussions to here whatever THZ version of “Rhyner ranks it” that McDowell folks out.
ReplyDeleteC
This isn’t a person, it’s a show. Essentially it’s a reconfigured BaD Radio that’s gone. That’s a big deal, but yeah THE TICKET is a juggernaut. Caitlin has his work cut out for 10-3.
ReplyDeleteGood point. I remember being stunned by people who kept asking who's Greggo and who's the voice saying all those crazy things in those drops? I was stunned bc it was less than a yr after he'd been fired. News cycles and those involved move on and are forgotten in a hurry. That was 15 yrs ago. The time of relevance, no matter how passionate interested groups are, is swept into the dustbin of history faster than ever. Food for thought.
ReplyDeleteC I just don’t know. Unless they really wanted to leave? I don’t get it.
ReplyDeleteWhen training camp rolls around and they ain’t there. They’re never coming back. That’s a goldmine for The Ticket.
ReplyDeleteOne more thing about the Greggo analogy. When he was fired he was THE star of the station. It wasn't even close. He was larger than life and he connected on an everyday level with listeners from all demos. He was the face of the station. Ask any of the hosts who were around then, they'll confirm this to a man. Yet, less than a year later, even with him doing a stint at 103.3 then later The FAN (still in the public eye), it was as if he never existed. His fans were massive in number, far and away larger in size and even in their loyalty to him than either Dan or Jake. Again, less than a year later -- if a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to see/hear it (?). The real loyalty resided with The Ticket and its hosts as a whole. Despite what we tell ourselves and each other, in the final analysis we cheer for the uniform and for those wearing it, not for the player.
ReplyDeleteGreg was definitely a top 2 star/face of the station until he met his ticket demise. I’d argue that the rise of the Musers put Gordon up there with him by the mid aughts. I can’t deny the force that was early ticket Greg. All of us who have been around since the early days hold 1995-2005 HL in the highest regard. To say nothing of the greatest fake character in ticket history. Gordon is on record a number of times that fake Greggo was always his favorite. Thank goodness we have the fake Luka now
DeleteLove your work here C but I think you underrate and mischaracterize the genius of THZ and what a force Dan really is. We shall see.
ReplyDeleteNo, I think Dan is a genius. My point is that the Freak emerged as a direct competitor for the listeners just months before the Ticket had its best ever ratings can’t be ignored. For years I’ve seen comments about how they have no competition, just wait till someone challenges them, etc. well, they got a competitor where the whole air staff minus 2 had worked at the Ticket. And it had zero effect on TT ratings. In fact, it seems to have actually help improve them. Dan may be a genius. And there is a certain percentage of listeners thst will follow a jock instead of the station. For Rhyner, that crowd size is worth a rating that ranges from 13-19th according to the Peter Welpton posted ratings. 19th isn’t good, and Rhyner is arguably better known and more popular than Dan and Jake.
DeleteC
I think people like 10:03 are stuck in the past and assume that paradigms don’t shift. The Ticket so called inertia want go on forever. Things change and inflection points are hard to see until you have passed them.
ReplyDeleteAll due respect, but Greggo was drug addict and his post ticket career does not predict the careers of Dan or Jake. Greggo has had multiple issues with relapses including ending up in the hospital after drinking [110?] cans of miller lite over a weekend according to the Freak reunion episode. They are hard workers and have grinded for years. Dan had a radio career prior to the ticket and understands the industry better than almost any other host at the ticket. I will guess they will end up doing fine wherever they end up landing.
ReplyDeleteTrue, but I sell radio for a living and compete with the Ticket sellers. Middays are nice, but the audience (and so the higher rates and more money) are in drive times. The Musers had a SEVENTEEN share recently. If their ratings take a huge hit from THZ leaving they’ll (checks notes) pretty much be back where they were. I’m just saying everyone has pointed to all these other events as inflection points, and yet there they are, number one in overall ratings for 6 straight months.
ReplyDeleteC
110, 1003 here. With all due respect, I don't think you understood what I was saying. What I was saying is that things DO change and change quickly. They change and they move on, for good. Nothing I said had anything to do with good old day syndrome. Quite the opposite in fact. Things change in this case in that the people involved change/move on. Despite these changes, listeners stick around. They stick around because ultimately they "cheer" for "Team Ticket" and not the people involved. I hope that makes more sense to you.
ReplyDeleteGreggo's addictions have nothing to do with what I'm saying. Please turn your attention towards one Mike Rhyner. It's in many ways the same with him. Mike is the face, the centerpiece of a new station with a lot of money. He's been gone from The Ticket for over 3 years. He founded the thing and yet I guarantee you there is a whole slew of listeners who came aboard during COVID that have little to no idea who he is. No one knows the industry better than Rhyner. That includes Dan. And, again, despite being the face of a station with a heritage signal and lots of money and billboards and fluff pieces in all the media outlets.... It's a tough business and it's a who's in front of me right now/what have you done for me today world.
ReplyDelete1046 here. Look, I'm not poking at you, Asaa. Just trying to put things into perspective by way of looking at the bigger picture.
ReplyDeleteSo are they gone or not?
ReplyDeleteLikely, yes. Only hope is from Bob and Corby's hints that something may still be worked out (and the knowledge that Corby talked to Jake before giving said hints)
ReplyDeleteI’d like to think the Norm retirement was genuine but I don’t. The timing of it all was weird and it would be bonkers for Norm to leave money on the table.
ReplyDeleteI’d like to think that D&J had the full backing of other shows but I don’t. The Musers couldn’t get big Jer a livable wage and Sirois left at 38k. Danny probably wasn’t making much more and it took him leaving for them to add Davy and probably paid him more than Danny was making.
I’d like to think Corby and Bob can do more than retweet or tweet things to support D&J and are also asking for answers from management.
I’d like to think this contract fiasco for D&J is not just about them but also the rest of the show. They’ve mentioned ad nauseum Pat Macafee taking care of his show. They helped their show during Covid and frequently buy everyone lunch.
I just don’t know what is what anymore. I know guys like Donnie and Monty are stuck in a tough place. Does Monty cross his “friends” to get a full time gig?
I’m so scared baby.
It was more than 38k. Try around 43k. He worked, literally, 6 hours per week for that figure. I know this fact is troublesome for many, but it is a fact, nevertheless. Corby and Bob are employees. They are not management. Nothing they say or do has any bearing on corporate decisions. Davey is a host, he therefore earns more than a producer. Davey's addition had nothing whatsoever to do with Danny leaving. Danny's producer position was immediately filled. Neither Monty nor anyone else has any recourse, any access to a full time hosting position at another station. Those positions are all filled. If there was an opening, it would go to a known commodity, that is, someone who has worked as a daily host and has been at least somewhat successful at it. Neither Monty nor any other "JV" fills that bill. Please do not take this as an attack on your thoughts. It's just some of these tropes that are bandied about are plain incorrect. You are by no means the only one who believes such things. FWIW, I too think it suchs that Dan and Jake are gone.
ReplyDeleteSorry, I meant to type 10 hours, not 6.
ReplyDeleteAnon 11:38…Always support labor, never trust management
ReplyDeleteIt's sad if cumulus doesn't come back in to give enough. Dan McDowell is unique. And I'll miss him. Jake Kemp, on the other hand? Well. . . I'm sure someone out there will point out when some old guy isn't woke enough. Do we really need Jake for that?
ReplyDeleteWhether you like them, or not, they are midday hosts. In other words, no big deal. When the musers leave, the station is done.When midday throws a temper tantrum? Yawn. Monty is funny. We'll love him halfway through the noncompete.
In the wake of all of this Donnie sure seems to swing a big stick now, and rightfully so. For him to hold down 10-2 and now 12-3 in the wake of a couple of massive departures is a credit to his broadcasting ability. He like the Musers has an ability to procure interesting, thought provoking and entertaining segments time in and time out. I personally have enjoyed his recent chemistry with DJ, Sean, and Blake. That feels like a show to me. 12-3 with those 4? Sign me up.
ReplyDeleteAbsolutely not!
DeleteI'm not sure what they're supposed to do, but it is odd to still get silence on air while the SportsDay app has the D&J resignation story front and center
ReplyDeleteDonnnie Doo is Uber talented. With that said, if it’s Donnie and Sean Bass Noon-3 I’ve got podcasts to listen to.
ReplyDeleteOld people shitting on Jake for...not being an old dude...will never not be funny to me.
ReplyDeleteit's ok to have different opinions.
Totally agree 7:23
ReplyDeleteCan’t believe I’m saying this, but if Surly thinks something’s afoot and that the boys could be back, I’m putting my money on it.
ReplyDelete@740, where does Surly say that? Because Corby and Bob tweeted? Come on now.
ReplyDeleteFrom Gordo:
ReplyDelete"I know it's tough having limited information about a situation that affects us all deeply. I'm sure we will address it soon."
The Fan has always been a competitor and has beaten the Ticket in the not so distant past in various dayparts
ReplyDeleteCorbily promises to address the elephants in the room at Noon today
ReplyDeleteUnless he’s saying they’re coming back for sure, which I doubt, I’m kinda shocked he’s gonna be addressing anything. Maybe a “we’re doing what we can, there’s a chance” and that’s it?
ReplyDeleteOn the one hand, I don't get how addressing it without a conclusion would be productive at this point so I'm hoping they reached a deal. On the other hand, Corby would absolutely address it without a conclusion and think he's helping.
ReplyDeleteCorby, or anybody really, wouldn’t address this without running it by multiple higher-ups first.
DeleteThe email that everybody thinks is fake is real. They’ve addressed it internally, my guess is they haven’t addressed it externally, ie a press release, because that involves corporate HR, corporate legal, corporate PR, etc, all who want input and none of which care that this is trending on Twitter. My moneys on Corby rehashing the Dan Bennet email, they resigned, competing digital media, etc
DeleteC
Hard to believe there is a good chance we will miss Dan having Fish Tacos every night at Spencer Makenzie's. Fishy fishya
ReplyDeleteJust listened to the opening segment of yesterday’s Downbeat (you’re welcome) The first thing out of Sirois’s and Danny’s mouths were, “It is what it is”. Referring to Saquon’s tweet that The Hang Zone retweeted. They are the ultimate trolls.
ReplyDeleteCongratulations to Donnie for 30 years at Cumulus today.
ReplyDeleteSee, overnight board ops can go on to do great things.
C, to be fair you've been wrong throughout this whole process. You said Dan and Jake being out an extra day on 7/3 was because Cat messed up the vacation schedules
ReplyDeleteAnd you've been wrong on a lot of things too. Pot-kettle dichotomy.
DeleteNew post and many reds.
ReplyDeleteI never claimed any insider knowledge. In fact I expressly said I had none
ReplyDelete