https://www.pressboxdfw.com/whitts-end-11-1-19/
Check out the entire article. Here are the money graphs, cut and pasted without permission:
Among the coveted demographic (Men 25-54) in the money slot (Monday-Friday 6 a.m.-7 p.m.), since May The Ticket has tumbled from a 7.6 rating to a 3.2. The Fan, meanwhile, has surged from a 3.1 to a 5.5. Current score: Fan 5.5, Ticket 3.2. In its 25-year history, I can’t imagine The Ticket every getting lambasted by 2.3 points in a month. Ever.
Not surprisingly, the individual matchups sing a similar song. In mornings, The Fan’s Shan & RJ beat The Ticket’s Musers in October, 5.2-3.7. In middays, The Fan’s Ben & Skin clobbered The Ticket’s BaD Radio, 6.5-2.9. And in afternoons, The Fan’s G-Bag Nation topped The Ticket’s Hardline, 4.9-3.2.
That is a huge reversal, and almost instantaneous.
But there's something not right about these numbers. I speak not as an expert on ratings or as any other kind of expert.
The Ticket has been decisively on top of the ratings heap for a long time. I and, I think, most people, including advertisers, believed those numbers, thought they were accurate. Partly because of general trust of media ratings, partly because The Ticket was so plainly the superior station. If anything, its comparative excellence and dominance was growing stronger with the passage of time. The Fan was, and (mostly) still is, a conventional sports talker, very average with a bright spot here and there.
So I ask you -- do you believe that anything has changed between these two stations, or in its listenership, to have resulted in these surging numbers for The Fan, and the corresponding plummeting of The Ticket over a period of time that is the blink of an eye in radio-ratings time? The Cowboys factor may have played a part, but The Fan has had the Cowboys for awhile. That's not it.
I expect we will hear from the people who don't like Corby, and who think that Mike R has been phoning it in for awhile. Fine; fair points. But that can't account for what appears to be a wholesale shift up and down the radio day from The Ticket to The Fan, nor would it even if it were The Hardline alone.
No, I'm guessing that what happened here -- and this is the purest, uninformed speculation on my part, nobody feeding me inside industry dope -- is that there is continued turmoil in the world of radio ratings, changes in how ratings are measured, uncertainty on how to deal with streaming, things like that. And that sometime within the last year, a switch got flipped on how ratings were measured or collected, and we ended up with what look to me like highly anomalous results. A complete 180 in listenership in no time. Not possible no matter how much you dislike Corby.
In short: I don't believe it.
* * *
ThePlainsman1310@gmail.com
@Plainsman1310
That’s the very first thing I thought of after reading the headline and before I read the post. The measurement.
ReplyDeleteMy college economics professor (who checks in from time to time in the form of an ear worm) gives the example of child abuse. It surged once year-on-year and people freaked out. What is wrong with society? It’s a statistic, right? You can’t argue with “facts”, right? It’s “hard data” so it must be true. No. They just changed the definition and included spanking as child abuse.
It depends on how you measure it.
Bill Clinton: It depends what your definition of of the word “is” is.
But, it happens everywhere in all lines of business. If everyone agrees that X is the new way of measuring something, that’s just the way things happen.
... but I’m worried nonetheless.
Another thought... who was the rick with a p that forgot to turn on the encoder that left them half the month of a January or February with a 0.0?
ReplyDeleteAnd what impact will this have, if any, to the app? I swear that's the only way I listen. Having the confidence of the one hour buffer is so nice. I hope it stays.
My first reaction certainly was similar—can’t be actually true. But it certainly must be true enough that the station went with the gimmick “fewer breaks/more content” bit between 7:15-8:30, even though that actually only affected two commercial breaks and didn’t reduce the overall number of spots from 5:35-10.
ReplyDeleteI noticed in the ratings there is no mention of the FM ratings. The streaming ratings were like .03 of the listeners and the AM at a 1.2. If they are not counting the 96.7 ratings that could be the difference.
ReplyDeleteHow many here listen on 96.7 exclusively?
I'm not an expert in the area of ratings, but it could be a 1-month anomaly on the surveys. If this happens two months in a row, then it's a trend and could really mean something. I can't believe that the Ticket lost 30% of its listeners overnight. And it can't just be because Corby sucks; that's been the case for years.
ReplyDeleteI listen on 96.7 exclusively, but I thought most of us did.
I also meant to thank Confessor Darren S, who sent me the Whitt article via email.
ReplyDeleteAnd I'm not sure The Fan believes it, either. If they did, why did they demote, then get rid of, Ben & Skin?
ReplyDeleteRichie says "Fan management is stupid," but it could just as easily be "everybody, including advertisers, knows recent radio ratings are a crock."
Hearty congratulations to Dave Lane on his marriage this weekend.
ReplyDeleteAs Frank told us:
Love is lovelier the second time around
Just as wonderful with both feet on the ground
It's that second time you hear your love song sung
Makes you think perhaps that love, like youth, is wasted on the young
And did I see somewhere that Junior's nups were this weekend? Long-rumored, so I hesitate to broadcast it. If so, best to him and Natalie Solis as well.
ReplyDeleteI assume Junior married a woman of his choosing.
ReplyDeleteI struggle to believe the FAN's ratings are both way up and also the FAN has had two massive shakups in drivetime in last 2 months. Change like that shouldn't yield instantaneous results and if these ratings were in the cards, the FAN wouldn't have made the radical changes they have made.
ReplyDeleteI don't have anything new to add here beyond what's already been said. I agree there's no way that the Fan overtook the Ticket all at once. I don't buy these numbers for a minute.
ReplyDeleteAnd yes, Junior got married. Pics are on Steven Ray's Facebook page. Officiant was Shaun Rabb.
As Pman said, if The FAN scored such ratings bonanza, they'd be shouting it to the rooftops. It wouldn't be only one half of their morning show sending out a solitary Tweet. Moreover, why would they first shuffle the lineup then let go one of their shows if the ratings reflected as such? On the other hand, what was the more talk, less ads announcement by The Musers about? I do think 424's assessment of the situation is most likely correct.
ReplyDeleteI think these numbers are legit. Fan has beaten Ticket in the past albeit for a short amount of time. Over the last few years Fan has had solid ratings and has been gaining on Ticket. To know if this is real or not will just take time. We'll see if Fan can sustain.
ReplyDeleteThe four-minute breaks may have been a response to competitive pressure, but I don't think it can be called a "gimmick." It represents a real change in the way the show presents itself during the most listened-to segments.
ReplyDeleteOn the side of these numbers possibly being real (which I still doubt): Radio ratings have been controversial for the last several years. Stations have been raising bleeding hell with the ratings services (now mostly just Nielsen) for a long time about the inaccuracies they perceived resulting from new methods of sampling listener habits. I believe there have been real, contentious communications between the industry and the ratings guys about changes in the way ratings are taken. Nielsen must have some confidence in these methods or they'd hold up or qualify some of this.
Either that, or the books showing material Ticket supremacy have been wrong for a long, long time.
My line of work and weekend warrior hobby, indoor soccer, bring me into contact with many a Millennial. And from the entire age range of the group. The few who regularly listen to sports talk radio most always listen to The FAN. I'm not sure why that is on the whole, but I've had a couple of individuals tell me that they don't get The Ticket and its inside jokes and that its music talk is ridiculous and dated, and they can't stand the political stuff.
ReplyDeleteOh yeah, they also see it as their dad's or an old man's station.
ReplyDeleteI read the Whitt piece. He's the Mike Fisher of DFW sports journalism. That's not a compliment, btw. Two things I took away were his prediction that B&S would land at KEGL, taking over TRMS, and the fact that this rating sea change began in May. Am I the only one who caught the latter? That's pretty huge. It means, if true, these numbers are not an anomaly, but rather are a now significant trend. Uh, hello ill executed and at times uncomfortable NaD. Hello, wakey wakey HL. Hello, AI bulsh and the myriad of uninformed HSOs am drive. Hello, multiple gambling segments while we all scream at every bet BaD.
ReplyDeleteIf these numbers are correct and have been showing up for almost 7 months, don't you think that's all we'd hear from The FAN? Don't you also think we'd have read SOMETHING about it over the past 7 months? I say, "yes we would have." But we haven't. That alone should say something. I'm not on Twitter, but someone that is might want to look at Shariff's (sp) timeline and compare it to the Whitt article--i.e., to see which came first. I bet the Whitt did. By the by, Ben and Skin were demoted to middays 3 weeks ago, getting fired/quitting (depending on who's telling the story) 1 week ago. I can't fathom any, much less a new, owner denitubg then canning/let walk away a show that has been supposedly--per Whitt--whooping the competition's ass for nearly 7 months. None of this makes sense.
ReplyDeleteI listen to 96.7 FM exclusively. I mean, why listen to AM if you don't have to? It makes no sense. As far as all this ratings controversy, I've talked to several individuals just recently that say they prefer The Fan over the The Ticket. They said they just get tired of the bits of The Ticket and want more actual sports based talk as opposed to 'shooting the bull' like KTCK.
ReplyDeleteJunior Miller just announced that he and Natalie Solis were married this weekend. Very happy for Junior!
ReplyDeleteIt's a gimmick because it actually only affects two commercial breaks despite being touted as covering "7:15-8:30".
ReplyDeleteAnd it hasn't reduced the number of spots being run overall.
Benjamin Disraeli by way of Mark Twain: "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."
ReplyDeleteI listen to the stream on my laptop at work. At home and in the car I listen mostly to FM, but how many of us have to deal with the intrusion of the enchilada channel?
The turbo hour is a pretty clear indication to me that they know they can no longer rely on the formatics that have worked for them for years. A more obvious indicator that they are stepping up their game would be more participation from Mike, but I haven't seen that to this point.
I was at the Tripping daisy show Saturday night, and while the Old 97s were on stage, a conversation between several people happened, which boiled down to "I haven't heard much of the new stuff from Old 97s, but I hear Rhett Miller on the ticket all the time."
ReplyDeletePoint being, it seems that I have a lot of conversations with people about various topics, and often, it comes back to something they heard on the Ticket. That never happens with the Fan.
Couple things:
ReplyDelete- I'd love to see a breakdown of new listeners and which station they gravitate to. I've tried to get several people to convert from the Fan to the Ticket and they give it a try and just don't get it. They have so many long running bits, drops and unique phrases that it has to be more difficult for a new listener to get up to speed.
- I also don't think there's any doubt that a younger listener would prefer the Fan. The Ticket hosts are aging and they've been in those same roles for decades now. In my opinion, as someone who listens to both stations, they're non-sports talk isn't as technical and more just observational (expect Bob) and their non-sports talk skews toward to the top of the "coveted demographic."
- The signal has to be a factor as well. I live in Fort worth and the Ticket can get spotty at times. I drove to Waco this weekend though and listened to the Fan 75% of the time because that was the only option
I listen to both stations just about equally these days and I'm not sure overall I even prefer one over the other, although I definitely like some shows more than others. I'm glad they're both around but if I had to buy future stock in one of them I'd take the Fan.
Also semi-interesting to note that r/thefan has a grand total of 4 posts in its 3 1/2-year history. For a station that touts how much they skew to a younger demo, I wonder why their legions of fans do not feel compelled to post there like P1s do on r/theticket (8,442 readers/711 users here now vs 35 readers/4 users here now)
ReplyDeleteYou know what, James? I do wonder if those very conversations (and indeed even the event that you heard them) play a role in the possible ratings 180? Meaning, Tripping Daisy, The Old 97s, Rhett Miller, Tim DeLaughter, and all that and those who still find them relevant is part of the issue. Regardless of what one thinks of such music/artists, it is a scene that is now of the 40s-50's middle aged crowd. If there are younger folks in attendance, they are most likely with their parents. Perhaps we can look at this as a microcosm of the ratings shift. The Ticket skews to the older end of the coveted demo, while The FAN, the younger. After all, both artists (especially Miller) are semi regular guests and their respective bands are always lauded, promoted by the hosts and even take part in station events. Now apply the above to what goes over the airwaves as a whole, If that's the case, then it's only a matter of time before the ratings reverse is no longer de jure but de facto. Is it possible that we're already there? If so, ought we be surprised?
ReplyDeleteBUT. Surly makes an excellent point.
I’ve been a P1 since 2003 and spend a lot of my time with the radio on. Also an avid reader of this blog. In that time I’ve seen the Fan emerge and I couldn’t wait to tell everyone how much of a fail it was and how they were ripping off ticket segments and bits....a real Fan hater. With that being said over the past year and half the dial has been probably 70% Fan 20% ESPN 10% Ticket.
ReplyDeleteIt’s been gradual but it seems the ticket has been losing me with lack of quality segments and it’s gotten very stale. Could also be the “new girl” in the room syndrome but if that was the case then why was I so anti Fan before? I’ll never call myself TOLO because it’s just a more pathetic way of saying Fan Fan and also ripping off P1. But I do think there Is a shift happening here.
Surly, I commend your introduction of metrics to MTC.
ReplyDeleteJunior did say 350 people move to DFW every day (don't know what source he used), and that's been going on for years now. How do those 350 listeners break out between radio stations? What percentage adopts The Ticket, The Fan or ESPN, or none every day?
ReplyDeleteAs I wrote a few months ago, first week of August, it could be as simple as any new Nielsen PPM households replaced old ones who listened to The Ticket more regularly. The sample size Nielsen uses is so small that a change in three or five can cause a dramatic shift.
ReplyDeleteyeah, if the sample size is that small, it probably doesn't mean much. Which makes it very odd that the ratings would be such a bragging point for the ticket when they come out at other times.
ReplyDelete@ Anon 7:35AM,
ReplyDeleteKeep in mind that for national TV ratings, Nielsen only used 40K households, so how many do you think local markets like DFW have?
In addition, those who have PPMs are always rotated. They typically last just 15 months.
From David Eurado, a moderator on a local radio industry board:
ReplyDelete"There has been no change in Nielsen methodology since 2008.
Remember that the top stations are generally separated by amounts that are within the margin of error of the survey itself. Remember that shares are not absolute, they are estimates based on a statistical sample. A 3.7 can be a 4.3 or a 3.3 without there really being a change in listening.
Ratings are principally used to establish pricing ranges for advertisers and those advertisers usually look at averages of 3, 4, 6 or more books to make ad buys.
Of course, in 25-54 which is most of what matters for sales, KHKS is far in the lead, with KLTY, KDMX, KLNO, KKDA, KJKK, KLUV and KBFB bunched together within the margin of error. And that means that those stations flip positions every book with no real meaning to the changes.
Update.
I don't usually look at either 12++ or 6+, but ran Dallas against 6+ and 12+ just now.
In 12+, KHKS is considerably ahead. In 6+ KLTY wins. All of KLTY's "dominance" is added by listeners between 6 an 11 years old.
In 18-49, KLTY is down at 6th, 40% below KHKS.
Of course, in 55+, KLTY is 3rd, so a great deal of their audience is kids and seniors.
Simulcasts, whether AM/FM, FM/FM, or AM and Translator or HD and Translator, have two choices if they are Nielsen subscribers.
1. If the simulcast is never broken, they can request Total Line Reporting where the two (or more) are combined in one listing. Most stations do this so they show up higher in rankings.
2. Each can be listed separately, but for sales purposes this is not smart."
Posted for what it's worth.
OK, Gopher, thanks, but . . . what is it worth with respect to the Ticket v Fan issue? It's all interesting, I appreciate the posting, but I can't make head nor tails of it with respect to the current issue.
ReplyDeleteConfessors: Stay tuned. I may have some sizzling information on this subject very shortly. Waiting for some local radio guys to weigh in. If I get anything worthwhile it'll be a new post, breaking.
ReplyDeleteNow we're cooking with high heat!
ReplyDeleteHis main point was the difference in the numbers was within the margin of error of the testing method. Also, AM+FM numbers are added together for the total.
ReplyDeleteThe other point was a religious station was overall number one in the Dallas market this month.
Not sure if this has been mentioned elsewhere, but Dave Lane married Kenny The Snake Stabler's daughter. He done good: https://www.zola.com/wedding/dave-marissa
ReplyDeleteThanks 9:29 11/8. His wedding was mentioned by the Musers since I believe it was the same day as Junior's, but I hadn't heard anything about it being Ken Stabler's daughter. Between the two Snakes in his life, this is easily the better one.
ReplyDeleteI'm listening to Corby's failed attempt at humor on the fish and bread bible story...I'm wondering if Jesus could do something about getting Corby off the air...
ReplyDeleteAnon 6:28...now that would be a miracle more admirable than that of fishes and the loaves, and truthfully, probably more needed.
ReplyDeletePull plug on pig pen...Please!
ReplyDeleteMan, I go out of my way to defend Corby -- and I do like much of his work -- but then he delivers himself of an opinion so stupid, and so offensively expressed, that it makes me think I need to rethink ever listening to The Hardline again -- I haven't rethought that, but I thought about rethinking it -- and that would probably mean the end of MTC.
ReplyDeleteColin Kaepernick: Corby unburdened himself of the opinion yesterday that his lack of employment is solely -- solely -- the result of racism, "nothing else," OWTTE. And then punctuates this particular fatuity with: "Trust me."
Corbimer, my friend, look around the NFL. Who are its most prominent, popular, best-paid employees? Who employs blacks as coaches and in important front-office positions? Who honors blacks with retired uniforms, hall of fame elections, awards named after them?
I don't want this thread to become a forum on racism (or not) in the Niffle or in the United States of America. Excessively incendiary posts will be taken down per my usual policies. But if you want to unload on Corby, you have my permission.
Watch the vulgarities.
If something interesting happens on The Hardline in the next few weeks, please let me know. I'm sure I'll be back enjoying it sometime soon, but after that blast of ignorance, I need a break.
I thought Cat had put the lid on crap like this.
I mean, it is because of racism though.
ReplyDeleteDonald Sterling employed lots of black men too by the way. Paid them lots of money. Hired black men as head coaches even.
(And calling them "blacks" is...yikes)
P-man: Love your work, would hate to see MTC go. Then I'd be forced to switch to the reddit. Save me from that.
ReplyDeleteBut...the Corby defender is taking a break? If that isn't a signal to the Catman of the Americas, I don't know what is.....
Surly: "Blacks" is making a comeback. Get with it, man.
ReplyDeleteYeah, maybe I'll sample me some G-Bag and do a report or something.
ReplyDeleteBy the way: If I'm out of terrestrial range, what's the best way to listen to The Fan stream?
ReplyDeleteIf I have to stream The Ticket I usually just do it from the mobile website (not SportsDay), and it works pretty well. I haven't had the same luck with The Fan. What's best if I have to stream?
The last few comments from Plainsman makes me wonder if his account has been hacked....out of character for sure!
ReplyDeleteNope, all gen-u-wine Plainsman.
ReplyDeleteI'll probably calm down and rejoin the 'Line sometime soon.
But life is too short to tolerate foolishness that profound.
Already deleting posts, so let's keep it Ticket-centric, please.
What good does it do to complain about Corby? He's not going anywhere. The obvious solution is to listen to another station or just listen to music on the commute home.
ReplyDeleteI can agree with your last two sentences, Euronymous.
ReplyDeleteBut whether expressing an adverse opinion about anything on The Ticket -- not just Corby -- is "complaining" is a different matter. The communication of an opinion, positive or negative, is of value to the overall conversation about any topic of public interest. So the "good" that it does is to let the universe know what folks are thinking, for better or worse.
The accessibility of social media means, of course, that we hear lots of voices who seem not terribly well-informed, Your Plainsman doubtless sometimes among them. But better to hear that "complaining" than to assume that the status quo is beyond change.
My fallout with The Hardline started with Corby's half-assing of E-news. There were mistakes in EVERY story he delivered (reading for the first time). Soon after that, the Old Gray Wolf started his phoning-in campaign.
ReplyDeleteAs it slowly became the Corby & Danny show, I just lost interest. Not to be too cruel, but who the fuck are they? They have the same sports acumen as the guy in the next cubicle. If you have that, you better be REALLY entertaining. Not so much. It's not like they are putting in the effort they used to with comedic bits. Maybe the show needs a yuck monkey?
Honestly, as long as Rhyner is just collecting a paycheck and Corby and Danny talk about how the music they like is great and how everything else sucks...and OU football over and over and over again...it's music for me on the way home. It's sad.
Wanna know what's funny? The fact that one of the things that rubbed Rhyner the wrong way most about Rocco Pendola was the upstart's claim that by the time he was through he could literally fart for three hours straight and the audience would love it. Well guess what? THL has been doing that same thing for years now. How's that adage go? Oh yeah, we often loathe most what is most like us.
ReplyDeleteI am growing stronger in my conviction that BaD is the best all around show on the ticket. You get actual good sports talk married with a good dose of humor and irreverent guys talk packed into a show that demonstrates preparation. Musers probably still the kings of slick prep but I actually enjoy the sports talk on BaD far more than the Musers. HL a distant 3rd or 4th depending on where you rank Norm and Donovan.
ReplyDeleteYeah, I agree. I guess "complaining" wasn't exactly the right term to use. You do make a point that having a conversation about anything (in this case Corby) is discourse as opposed to bitching.
ReplyDeleteI've personally just reached my end with The Hard Line. I went out to see the guys on a remote and it was pretty obvious that BOTH the guys were phoning it in. Corby just seemed so entitled and arrogant whereas Rhyner just seemed to want to get it over with.
Cain't say bad is the strongest show. They still have bits like Homer call circa 2001
ReplyDelete"Homer" is a bit tiresome, but it often makes Bob laugh which is worth it in of itself. But yeah, it could go the way of "Gay or Not Gay" and I wouldn't be butthurt.
ReplyDeleteDo you speak Yiddish? I've never seen 'toches' as spelling for תּחת
ReplyDeleteGay not gay was hilarious. Need to bring it back.
ReplyDeleteKinda hard to say. We'll have to ask Bob and Dan.
ReplyDeleteThis is odd. He says he'll still be doing his radio gig at 105.3.
ReplyDeletehttps://twitter.com/BryanBroaddus/status/1196497550456561664
345: Many Yiddish terms have numerous alternative spellings. I don't know whether "toches" is preferred, but it's prominent:
ReplyDeletehttps://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/toches