Tuesday, January 14, 2014

Mrs. Plainsman Explains the Musers for You + More Ratings Talk

My lovely wife doesn't much care for The Ticket and she does not read this site, although she encourages me to keep doing it for some reason.  However, she does allow me to listen to The Musers when we are getting ready for work in the morning.

This morning, she looked at me and said:  "I know why people like this program."  OK, says I, I'll bite:  Why do people like this program?

"Because," she said, "people like to listen to men giggling."

I wasn't sure I heard her correctly.  She explained.

"These guys giggle a lot," she said.  "And when you hear a man giggle, it just makes you want to giggle along with him."

(Point of clarification:  She was not referring to Gordon's soon-to-be-retired faux-laff commercial intros.)

I don't know about the cause/effect she has identified, but I realized that she's right:  The Musers do giggle a lot.  I suppose it could be called laughter, but in fact our boys do a fair amount of gentle (of course) chuckling that doesn't really pass into the realm of all-out larfing.

Mrs. Plainsman, at least, finds it amusing and indeed, I will frequently hear her giggling along with the hosts even though she may not have been paying the closest attention to the topic on the table.

*     *     *

I'm still puzzled by the ratings switcheroo we've been discussing, and I really do wonder if it might be an outlier.  Wondering if has something to do with the loss of 104.1 and the gap before 96.7 kicked in, as some Confessors have speculated.  I always strongly suspected that whole lot more people in the north metro listened on 104.1 than seemed to be generally acknowledged, and its loss without an FM replacement ready to go may have had a more damaging effect than Cumulus anticipated.  (This move seemed really ill-advised to me at the time.)   It went Ticket-dark the first weekend in October, so we had at least the better part of a month before the 96.7 went online, right?  But why would that affect the midday disproportionately?

As I say, puzzling.  Won't shock me to see midday rebound in the next book.  Nor if it doesn't.

I was out of the office yesterday midday and tuned into 103.3 to see what was up.  It wasn't a good sampling because Friedo was off that day.  Otherwise, I found the show pretty generic, although sportsy, and before too much time had passed I was back to BaD, gently drifting off to sleep (and from lane to lane) to the sound of one of Bob's oral essays.  Wonderful stuff.

*     *     *

Now that we're all celebrating two decades of Ticket Greatness, we remind ourselves of the incalculable damage wreaked by the incompetent move to Victory.  All that marvelous material, fully digitized and easily transportable, completely lost.  

ThePlainsman1310@gmail
@Plainsman1310

87 comments:

The Plainsman said...

So, this new Ticket Site (thegreatticket.com) -- it looks like a Ticket-sponsored site to highlight the best bits of the last 20 years that weren't destroyed in the move. Or is it a true P1 site? Can't tell. Anyone know?

Crud, I've forgotten the name of the new Ticket blog. Remind us, someone.

The Plainsman said...

The Ticket really should have me writing their 20-year prose. I would be maudlin, but not that maudlin.

Shaggy said...

http://ap1wasteland.blogspot.com/

Steve said...

It's a P1 site. There was a Reddit thread about it a few weeks ago. The Ticket subreddit is a nice resource if you're not already following it:

http://www.reddit.com/r/theticket/

Here's the new Ticket blog (also posted about on Reddit):

http://ap1wasteland.blogspot.com/

The Plainsman said...

Although there's a picture of Greg there, so maybe it is a fan site. Many references to "I". So what is this, a rival to the Ticket's own "best bits" poll?

The Plainsman said...

Glad to see ap1wasteland keeping up the entries.

No, really, I am. Some of the material has been covered here in the distant past, but always good to reprise it for new listeners/readers.

Anonymous Ron said...

If people liked to listen to men giggle, then everybody would be listening to Russ Martin in afternoon drive.

East Texas P1 said...

Just a quick comment on unpreparedness. Yesterday on CQH Corby was relating the story of the Southwest flight that landed at the wrong airport. He started telling the story and had none of the facts correct.

He did not know where the plane was headed (he thought it was going to St. Louis) and then said it landed incorrectly at Branson, etc. etc.

I saw the story a three different news sites and on each it was, at most, 3 or 4 paragraphs. I guess he never bothered to even research before CQH came on.

slinky said...

Is Russ Martin still on? He's a bigger douche bag than Richie Whitt! Didn't he try some business venture too? Instead of pizza, wasn't it a car oil change place?

Anonymous said...

The Musers are starting to get old (both literally and figuratively). The need to realize that we are in a new era of football. Having Peter King on is so 1998 ESPN Radio. Why not have Chris Brown from Smart Football or Aaron Schatz from Football Outsiders instead.

Romo's last pick from the GB game is a perfect illustration of this. Before this game, I did not know what a packaged play was. And guess what, the only people at The Ticket who seemed to know were Bob and Jake. Which is fine except The Musers should know more about sports than I do!!!! I tell you what, the over-45's at The Ticket (Looking at you Junes, Jub, Rhynes and Norm) better figure it out or they will be left behind.

Watching the BCS Championship was a real eye-opener. Having people actually explain what I am watching -- what a concept!!! Perhaps the drive shows might learn...

It reminds me of Bob's story of his early days at The Ticket where he was told that The Ticket does not take many callers because it is like asking a diner to cook his own food at a restaurant. The Musers and THL are extremely guilty of relying on sports cliches and narratives that they used to make fun of 15 years ago. Spending more time talking about Dez getting upset, or "Jerry the Owner" talk is not going to get it done anymore. They better snap out of it, or someone will come by and drink their milkshake.

Half-Cat said...

Day 2 of Friedo and Fitzsimmons

Second day of flipping back and forth between streams of ESPN and the Ticket and I gotta say...quality of radio is higher on the 103.3 side of the dial. The show moves a lot quicker and doesn't bog down in side comments and personal stories. Once again I didn't really get annoyed at much of anything with the show. It's just good to know that I have another option from 11 to......well maybe during drive time as well.

This might all be the new girlfriend syndrome where I'm noticing all the flaws in my ex while not seeing any in this new girl on the dial.

With that being said The Musers are a staple of my morning just like coffee. I know what I'm getting each morning and those guys are just great!

Brad Gilbert said...

There are a couple things that stood out to me yesterday:

I am a BAD fan, but I noticed something (that I have previously noticed on THL). They were talking about the Golden Globes, and, I think it was Donny but maybe Dan, but someone made a point like it was new, yet the Musers spent half their Globes segment talking about it. Which leads me to something that is an issue to some of us: The on air talent doesn't seem to listen to the station as much as "we" do. I think this creates a disconnect for some.

As far as having people call in, I hated that format when I lived in Metro Detroit for 8 years (97.1 the Ticket, CBS owned). I felt like I was listening to uninformed callers rant the whole time and never heard much from the hosts. I for one enjoy listening more to the on-air talent than some schlub like me in his car.

Since this blog has spent some time talking about the awful commercials that are often on, I wonder if Stations or PD's ever think about the content of the commercials they air? Since I listen out of state and stream the station, I have no choice but to stick with it or turn it off completely. But for those listening on the radio, that is not the case. So, when a crappy commercial comes on with some creepy dude selling a high-priced car to 18 year old Ashley and her other spoiled friends, you can punch out and see what the other guys are doing. Then, if what they are doing is engaging enough, you forget to switch back for a while and they now have "lost a listener." Maybe in the near future stations will give more thought to content of the commercial and not just if they filled the spot.

Shaggy said...

I stream from 530a-10a and 12p-7p, buy I never listen to commercials. Just build up a little buffer and skip. Or record when I'm actually working and catch up during Norm or during later commercials. Basically, the same thing I do for TV. I never know about the commercials online or on TV that other people love or hate.

Shaggy said...

DIRECT reference to ratings in WTDS today, referring to the "ratings struggle" they're facing. Said with tongue firmly in cheek.

P1 Wasteland said...

Hey there Plainsman, Shaggy, Steve and the rest. Were trying to be a super kick-ass Chris Chris space is super gay kinda blog. We do Twitter to, @AP1Wasteland

Looking forward to beating you guys down.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

@Brad Gilbert and Anon12:16pm
You mentioned a problem which I realized occurs constantly. The Musers essentially set up the talking points for the day and with the exception of Norm, the other shows follow those unless there is any breaking news. The format is tiresome and old after two decades. The disconnect comes from the fact that we can access everything they talk about or items with further depth. Satellite (XM 103 and 99 for "guy talk" with a dollop of sports) and sports specific podcasting really hurts them too from The Basketball Jones/Starters for NBA, Marek VS. Wyshynski for NHL and if I want some loose NCAA football talk, I can just listen to The Solid Verbal

Even the drydock shows are just turnkey operations of the regular lineup. Same subjects...different voices.

The Plainsman said...

637, it wasn't a bad point, but leave out the insults next time.

The Plainsman said...

I was surfing the Sports Horizon, to mix a metaphor, and thought I really should check in on Ben & Skin. What I heard encapsulated what is good and less good about that show.

They were interviewing Derek Holland.

What follows is based only on the last several minutes of the interview, so if it mischaracterizes the content generally, my apologies to those gents.

Ben & Skin have the talent, or the ambition, or the energy, or the contacts, to hobnob with the local sports notables, with whom they develop friendships. Nothing wrong with that. The good that comes out of it is that they get timely interviews that other shows don't get. I don't know if other stations pursue those interviews, but the fact is that Ben & Skin talk to a lot of biggies that the other shows don't.

I perceive that, oh, 90% of the metro does not believe that Holland wrenched his pin frolicking with his dog.

I'm not sure how you broach this subject with Derek Holland. A skillful interviewer would. And, as I say, maybe B&S earlier asked some hard-hitting questions about how a percentage of professional athletes that is zero has suffered a sports-common injury playing with their dogs, and he apparently plays with regularity in some hockey league, and had played only some hours before this injury manifested itself. He's denied the connection; and he's likable and people want to believe him. Fine -- but few seem to. Junior, for example, is on record as disbelieving him in total.

He's lost for half the season, in all likelihood. Huge blow to the Rangers. $2.7 million, half his 2014 wage, at a minimum, in the pail. And who knows what kind of hurler he'll be when he's back.

But what I punched into was a major yukfest, talking about putting the dog in timeout, and the like. B&S egged him on. (I've seen news accounts where Holland reported that he threatened to put the dog on waivers and expressed irritation that his account was not receiving much credit.)

Again, maybe the actual news got covered earlier in the interview, but all I could think of is -- man, this is why people shake their head over Holland (after he'd rehabbed himself during the past season by canning some of the tired imitations).

And it's also why B&S get so little bang out of their access. It's understandable that they do not wish to discomfit someone they, probably rightly, regard as a friend of theirs and of the show. Of course, no interviewer is in a position to call Holland a liar, and I wouldn't expect the Musers, or BaD, and especially not Norm, to challenge his account directly. (Corby/Mike? Mmm, maybe. Those boys don't care if they never get another interview.)

But man, I gotta tell you -- that was hard to listen to. Especially given Holland's reputation for untimely clowning. I'm not at all sure they didn't do him more harm than good.

But, you say, what about -- for example -- BaD interviewing Jason Witten? Those chats are pretty friendly, no? Yes. They're also widely regarded as burnt segments. (I have felt sorry for BaD and having to conduct those sponsored shows, I'm suspecting against their journalistic judgment. Can't believe, for example, that they begged to get the Martellus Bennett show.) And they do gingerly prod him on difficult subjects suggested by the Cowboys' more doleful performances.

OK, rambling. Just rubbed me the wrong way. And another hypothetical apology to Ben and Skin if the first part of the interview explored the metro's skepticism.

The Plainsman said...

P1 Wasteland, commence beating down. As we come up on five years here, we should be prepared to take it if we're going to dish it out.

I'll link to your page on the Ticket-Friendly Sites.

The Plainsman said...

Quick question, P1 Wasteland: Is your slogan "Have good and GIVE a little give" on purpose? (That is, instead of "GET a little give"?)

Anonymous said...

@711, 1216, and Brad Gilbert
True, but you're leaving out the biggest part of the equation: the local-centric aspect of it. Not just the stories themselves that are local but also the national stories. It's the local Metroplex "take" done in "our voice" that makes The Ticket special.

@1216, in addition to the above
You do know that Corby is turning 45 this year, Danny is 46, Dan is 44, Bob is 42 or 3, and Donnie the same as Bob. I've no idea how old you are, but I'm just going to guess that you're not yet 45 (or even near it). Yes? I have a feeling you might be a SJ/Jake/analytics guy or gal. Yes? Whatever the case, while I think your soft ageism is a bit misplaced and probably unintentional, I do believe you have a point in the bigger picture. At least for the present time. I mean by this that yes, Norm can sound outdated. Specially when he goes on and on about Vegas's line on a game and its relation to the analysis of the game. First off it's a bad tool for actual game analysis because it's not about who might win the game and why. Second and in conjunction with the first point, it's a very transparent game of Norm's. He's doing two jobs at once: talk radio host and "bet advisor." Both of which he makes money off of (from Cumulus and his other side business). It's cheap and misleading. The Musers and THL admittedly are stuck in the "past" where sports talk and analysis are concerned. But the thing is, so are most listeners. Though the number of people interested in the more analytical and x's and o's side of things is growing, most are still more attuned to the narrative. However it must be said that the analytic side of things seem to be not so slowly growing. It very well could become the mainstream view in short order. It doesn't guarantee that it's here to stay and will only get more statsy, more analytical. For example, TSJ keeps talking about the NFL is now a pass pass pass game. The stats bear it out. But that's not true. The stats show that passing is way way up, yes, but the teams that are still standing ran more than they passed. So TSJ can call the old timer sports writers super gay all they want, but the reality of winning still entails the traditional view of the sport. In other words, stats only have so much meaning. And that meaning is constructed and extrapolated by the interpreter. The numbers do not per se give meaning. That's why I say you might be right, but maybe not in the long run.


@Pman
No disrespect to Mrs. Pman, but that's the sort of thing a woman says/thinks. Because she thinks it so, everyone else does. Or at least if they have half a brain they do. Anon Ron nailed it. If giggling men are the cause of The Ticket's (or at least The Muser's) popularity, then RM ought to be on top of the ratings, and by a mile. 90% of his show is just that, giggling. Don't believe me, stop by for 5 minutes and tell me what you hear.

T4 In Rockwall said...

Boy, ain't that the truth about Russ Martin and his minions. I've flipped it on when I'm coming home late and there's a Stars game on 96.7 and Russ will say something funny (he really is a witty guy), but those guys are such a butt kiss. They sound like little school girls. It takes me all of about 2 seconds to turn it off. Me...I don't listen to the Musers because they giggle, but because they make me laugh. They have great chemistry and know exactly what each other are doing or are going to do.

Anonymous said...

Anon 8:47:

I am 41 - definitely old enough to be Jake's uncle. I may be ageist, but that's because I recognize that things I thought I knew I don't know. This year has really changed the way I view sports. You can see this in football if you follow Smartfootball on twitter. For the NBA, read the Grantland NBA pieces that use Courtvision and heat maps. For soccer, check out ZonalMarking or Jonathan Wilson. The "run the ball to establish the pass" nonsense is not adequate analysis in 2014. People have realized that in soccer, basketball and football, the name of the game is spacing, pace and exploiting matchups, not "the will to win." Except for Bob and TSJ, no one at The Ticket seems to have figured this out.

The generation behind me, the under 25's, aren't going to go for this much longer. Adapt or die. I love BaD Radio, love, love them. But Dan and Donnie aren't currently capable of commenting intelligently about football. They just aren't. I love them - I love Dan's Larry David act and tales of parenting, I love Donnie's overlaughing and his un-pc race talk, but when you really examine what they bring to SPORTS!, they have nothing. They really are like talking sports with your friends - your friends who keep saying over and over again "You can't fumble there." Well gosh, thanks for that insight! Bob is the only thing holding 12-3 together from a sports talk perspective.

I love The Ticket. I listen pretty much all day from Muse in the News to 6:15 except for Norm and the last 45 mins of the Musers. But the wind is starting to shift and I am not sure The Little One is ready. I think Cat knows - hence the meteoric rise of Jake, but The Ticket is going to have to go out and get some talent that can talk "Ticket" and have some ability to discuss how the Eagles and 49ers run their offense with some degree of intelligence. The Ticket is never going to be as sportsy as ESPN, but they need to get it right when they do.

Anonymous said...

Count me in as a fan of not taking calls too. And I'm in my early 30's and prefer the way that the "old guys" talk about sports. In the end, as much of a sports fan as I am, there's only so much you can say about a game or a team. By noon, most points that could be made have been made and remade and tweaked and restated. I honestly listen to the Ticket for "sports-flavored talk" which can include anything from Golden Globes to oil change talk.

Which leads me to my next point. I think the whole ratings news was a blip and doesn't represent some great sea change but it does bring up something I've wondered if I am alone about. My listening schedule is Musers from the point I wake up until the mix with Norm. Then tune out and usually don't come back until WTDS then THL until they get bumped for some fast paced Stars pre-game (sarcasm). I respect Norm but he's never been particularly entertaining to me, mostly because I'm not a betting man. I love Donnie and Dan is fine with me 80% of the time. But it's Sturm who causes me to tune out every single time. I don't care about EPL, the Packers or long drawn out stories or questions that go nowhere. No one can question his sports knowledge but he has the personality of nails scratching a blackboard while you're eating plain, unbuttered toast. With a dash of weird arrogance. I really can't wait until there's a mid-day shake up, be it TSJ or CDS or really anything else.

Anonymous said...

@1132
Points well taken. You also make one of my points to a certain degree when you say:

"They really are like talking sports with your friends - your friends who keep saying over and over again "You can't fumble there." Well gosh, thanks for that insight! Bob is the only thing holding 12-3 together from a sports talk perspective."

That's what makes The Ticket special to most listeners. I think there is a vast amount more of people like the commenter directly after yours (1133), who in his early 30s likes the bar stool mostly narrative based analysis, than people like yourself. But you might be right about Cat and the rest. Then again, more often times than not throughout the ages, the new is better/best crowd ends up being left behind by the slow and steady plodding pace of the tried and true.

@1133
I understand why some don't care for Bob. He is long winded and trying to get him to ask a direct question is darn near impossible. But fair is fair. He rarely ever talks of EPL, and when he does it's not even a segment (unless it's trip related) and Dan gives him so much grief, that that rarest of not even full segment is mostly devoted to fending off Dan. Same with the Packers. Other bring up the Packers to either try and pull him offsides or honestly want to hear what he has to say about them.

Anonymous said...

Plainsman you nailed what the problem with B&S is, at least their biggest issue. I've tried and tried to get into them. I've tried so many times because I can only take THL in bits and pieces these days.

B U T.

I thought Mike was TERRIFIC yesterday! The way he was forced to take the helm due to Corby's absence was nothing short of greatness. Donnie and Danny were excellent sidekicks. We got a taste of what THL used to be like in the old days, pre-Corby, pre-Greggo off the farm (that IS why Corby was brought in as yuk monkey, by the way-they had zero need for him, they were KILLING the ratings back then, as now). It'll never ever happen, but I wish so badly that Corby and Mike would be separated. Corby is too dominant of a personality to be saddled with someone like Mike-who needs to be the dominant force, but will readily defer if given the opportunity.

An aside. Not so sure if that new Ticket site isn't a Ticket run site after all. It reeks way too much of Cat-Bennett-Cumulus commercialism, inauthenticity. Has no organic feel to it, yet there's just enough little tidbits, a la GW references, to make it plausible. I think Cat's trying to devise a Ticket controlled alternative to this site, one they can control the content and get the sort of free survey-like feedback they get from this site. I might sound nuts on this, but I think I might be right. There's just something about it that doesn't smell right.

Anonymous said...

Russ Martin is back up near the Ticket in the ratings pretty consistently the past several months. He's here, and not going anywhere, and I think it's pretty damn good.

As for B&S (treating their athletes like friends), give me a break. When the Hardline buddies up with an athlete, they don't hard hit them at all.

A Satisfied Listener said...

I'd like to nominate Donnie as the hardest working man at the Ticket. My perception is that he is the first guy to volunteer for a last minute fill in when one of the guys is out sick (I thought that he was a real breath of fresh air yesterday filling in for Corby), and seems to be the go-to guy for a Ticket appearance at the Texaco in Hurst... I just get the impression that he knows what an opportunity this gig is for him. That said, I tune out for most of Norm, and Bob and Dan are frequently so sarcastic and downbeat that I have to explore my other entertainment options...

Anonymous said...

@ A Satisfied Listener,
I agree that Donovan is the one who seems to be the most willing to work (or volunteer), he and Twiggy are also a DINK (Dual Income No Kids) household, so there is no burden of childcare and the like. Out of all of those of similar age, his wife has a job.

That said, we also do not know the difference(s) between his contract and the others.

Anonymous said...

1206. How about you back up your RM claim with some ratings proof? Until then, you're nothing but a blowhard who possibly has an agenda. As to your HL/B&S statement. If you can't tell the difference between the two shows and the amount of athlete interviews they have and the way in which they present them, well, you madam or sir need to sharpen your edges, they're dulled to the point of being dangerous.

Anonymous said...

Completely agree about the THL being better yesterday without Corby. I enjoy Corby but there is something about the chemistry that seems off with him. Donnie may be lacking in deep sports knowledge (like most of the hosts) but he is a very likable personality that is nice to listen to. Really like hearing him with Mike.

Love the point made earlier about Peter King. He is a complete tune out for me. I have only been following Chris Brown for this season but I'd love to get that type of talk form a guest. I don't need it all morning but it would be nice now and then.

Anyone else getting tired of Danny speaking in absolutes without seeming to actually take a minute to understand what he is talking about? Seems like lately, I am hearing him more and more telling me something as fact but it is completely incorrect.

Anonymous said...

@150
You've come to find out something about Danny that I noticed many moons ago: He's a likable guy who is intelligent to a certain point. Danny's all about feelings and feeling it. He bites on to a narrative and holds fast. Be that narrative about music, sports, chicks, you name it. He sees everything through it and applies his interpretation of the narrative to everything he encounters. And what you end up with is a lot of absolutes that are absolutely wrongheaded at best, flat out wrong at worst. It makes him come off as less than the intelligent guy I think he is. The upshot is, it's a byproduct of the reason why he isn't a host. Said before, I'll say it again, "hosting" an hour and a half (after mixes and commercials it amounts to that, on a good week) MAYBE twice or thrice a month on a Saturday morning, audibly hungover more often than not, and putting no prep or thought into it, all alongside your good pal who sans the hangover puts the same amount of effort as you, doesn't count as hosting a show. It's getting paid (very little, and rightly so) to kill a few segments.

Danny is not host material. He seems like a righteous dude who'd be a great friend, co-worker, and neighbor. But he ain't no host.

Anonymous said...

Heh, did you guys catch the lightning-quick yoink from the Dallas Armory?

The 2:40 40-liner describing them as a sponsor of the movie night was corrected due to some "late-breaking developments." Probably due to the 1:30 news and commentary segment regarding the theater shooting in Florida.

Anonymous said...

I was listening to the Orphanage this weekend and I wondered why these guys want to keep doing this show. They don't do any show prep, they come in either hung over or sleep deprived, they spend a big chunk of the show talking about how they've got nothing, etc. The paycheck can't be that good. What's their motivation for keeping this thing going?

Anonymous said...

#522
Amen, brutha.

Shaggy said...

Corby made some cryptic comment regarding his availability today. It will be interesting to see if he's on or not. (The odd comment happened on Wednesday at some point when discussing the 2 upcoming remotes.)

unk said...

Let me start out by saying that I have never been a big sports fan. I don't hate sports, but they just don't do it for me. I enjoy going to a baseball or hockey game occasionally for the atmosphere and spectacle of it, and I will attend a Super Bowl party if invited. All that being said, I have listened to the Ticket since the late 1990's. I listen to the Musers every morning and THL every afternoon. I enjoy the bits and just hearing the guys talk about stuff in general. The sports talk keeps me well enough informed that I can have a reasonably intelligent conversation with people that are into sports. I tune out during Norm and BAD, because in my experience they talk too much excruciating minutia about sports for my taste. I know I'm the odd man out as far my reasons for listening to the Ticket, but I think the Misses is on to something. Hearing people chuckle makes me chuckle, and I've listened long enough to catch alot of the obtuse jokes that fly by. I also don't mind when their opinions differ from mine on political or pop culture issues. I'm roughly the same age as Corby, Danny and Gordon and I find that while they may have different takes on things than I do, it does give me something to think about. I like the station the way it is now. It's like hanging out with old friends, sure you hear the same stories over and over again, but who has the time or inclination to make new friends?

Anonymous said...

unk, I think you represent a good chunk of Ticket listenership. They might be a bit more sports inclined than you (especially about the Cowboys and to some extent the Rangers), but on the whole I think you represent most listeners. And that's why I think that the "adapt (i.e., get analytics savvy) or get passed by you sticks in the mud or else the younger demo will revolt / gimme some more of TSJ, less Musers and HL" crowd has a narrow view of the listening public at large. They claim that satellite radio and podcasts and terrestrial programs that are analytics heavy are what's in now, and moreover is the future; that what's worked for The Ticket for 20 years is coming to an end, fast. Change or die. Be a part of the future or be stuck in the past. Again, I believe that sentiment to be short sighted and at the very least, premature. Because, most listeners are like you, uck. Besides, like most everything, the analytics stuff will (and to some extent already has) sooner rather than later get fast and loose and overstep its boundaries. It will become overplayed and played out. It won't mean that it isn't a useful tool, only that its practitioners have gone overboard in their zealousness (think evolutionary psychology, if you will).

Anonymous said...

I meant by "think evolutionary psychology" that that particular field (much like its sister field, neuroscience) in short order went from an interesting and promising avenue of inquiry and study to a supposed unified biological/neurological theory. If anyone has noticed, the spate of general public (and academic/scientific) publications on the subject went from boom to bust. Why? Eh, a lot of jumping the gun, putting the cart in front of the horse, buddy. Many assumptions, huge, specious assumptions were being made. Many philosophical (metaphysical) claims were being made under the guise of scientific claims. Let's just say that the field is now much more careful in its methodology and interpretation.

Shaggy said...

Give some examples of how "analytics stuff" has gotten "fast and loose and overstepped its boundaries".

Thanks, I'll hang up and listen.

Anonymous said...

Amen to some of these recent posts. The Ticket has become the powerhouse station that it is because it DOESN'T talk hardcore sports that often. The majority of the listeners don't care about analytics, they just want the narrative and, most importantly, they want to laugh and be entertained. Many of the hosts have said that one of the main reasons they've been on top for 20 years is that they appeal to the masses, and analytics don't even appeal to the sports masses, much less the mass masses. To think that some hosts or stations that are hardcore into analytics are going to steal the Ticket's "milkshake" is to not understand the radio business, or the Ticket in general.

I like Bob and Jake, but when they get into hardcore analytics, I tune out. I would rather here them tell funny stories.

Anonymous said...

Sorry, "hear" funny stories.

Anonymous said...

I am the author of the milkshake line -- I am not saying that The Ticket needs to go 100% hardcore sports. I love The Ticket for the same reason everyone else does -- the personalities. Bob, Jake and Gordo are my leaders. I love e-break, Muse in the News, etc... My concern and annoyance though is that when they do get sportsy, they should do more than parrot the narrative. You can do fart jokes AND still be able talk about DVOA or UZR in the same 3 hour show. Again, the Green Bay game really bugged me because of the lack of understanding everyone but Bob and Jake demonstrated. They would hate the comparison, but when it comes to sports talk, Junior, Corby and Mike are morphing into the newspaper columnists I'm sure they swore they would never become. Vent your frustration, explain what happened and why, but spare me the narrative, or the "you just knew that they had momentum, blah blah blah..."

There are so many resources out there. This is your craft -- you should spend as much time working on learning how football is played in 2014 as you do on Biggest Show or E-News.

P.S. Of course, right as I am about to hit send, Corby start talking about pick plays... So there's that!

T4 In Rockwall said...

I've seen a couple people post the same comments about how only some hosts can talk entertaining sports. I'm happy with what Jub and Junior bring to those types of conversations. I don't think sports have changed that much over the years, especially when discussing them. We're still watching the same qb throw to the same wr so the hosts will still talk what they know, and I think they still do a a good job. Now Norm on the other hand might just be forgetting things which makes him seem a little early senile. That's just part of life. I'm 42 (I'm a man!) and I forget tons of things. I can get up to do something at work and get distracted by someone and will have to go back to my desk to remember what I was originally going to do. I agree the Ticket might be losing some edge but it's not because sports or sports talk is changing. I really think they can get their swag back, especially from Rhyner, if they paired him up with just about anyone else at the Ticket besides Corbles or Danny. It shows when Corby is gone and Danny reinforces Corby, so...

Anonymous said...

5:07, I hear what you're saying. But I think you sell most of the hosts short in terms of what unique things they bring to the station. I like hearing Corby yell after a Cowboys loss. I like hearing Junior's take on games, because he always comes up with some angle I havent thought of. I like hearing Mike talk about anything, because he's interesting talking about anything. Just because those guys don't parrot analytics websites doesn't make them less interesting to listen to, I think it makes them more interesting to the masses, which is good for their business, I would think.

Maybe you're right, and in five years all any sports fan, or any radio listener will want are analytics, but I doubt that will ever be the case. For 20 years, people have been predicting the demise of the Ticket, and one day someone is bound to be right! I just don't think a lack of talking sports analytics will bring them down.

The Plainsman said...

I heard via email from a listener that Ben (I guess Skin was preparing for a Mavs presentation) did ask Derek Holland "the hard questions." So wanted to acknowledge that to take some of the edge off my criticism above.

The Plainsman said...

GREAT discussion, some very thoughtful stuff here.

I probably tend somewhat toward the unk school. Although I am fascinated by the analytics. There's a reason so many sports teams have followed in the footsteps of Billy Bean and Bill James/Red Sox in assigning sportsy and economic value to their player selections. I like Shake Joint's numbers segments, and Bob's stuff is cool, too. (Amazing blog entries by Bob.)

Another thing about working the numbers -- it adds some variety during this time of year when people still hunger for Cowboys talk but there's nothing to talk about.

Example: The Musers are almost never guilty of burnt segments, but they tossed out a honey yesterday: The George-presented segment identifying the "ballers" on the Cowboys. Whoo. Turns out the probably-maybe-better-than-average players were all "ballers," the usual suspects, which the 'Pokes supposedly need more of. You can't perform fresh statistical analyses for every show, but that one had show-prep-session-what-the-frack-more-can-we-say-about-the-Cowboys written all over it.

The Plainsman said...

A thought and a question on Cowlishaw and Mosely, a show I pretty much like:

(1) The last two times I've listened to the show, Cowlishaw was no longer mumbling into his lap. They must have strapped the mic to his skull. A much less frustrating listen.

(2) Yesterday I heard the early part of the show. They were threatening to devote the entire show to this anniversary of Jimmy Johnson calling Galloway after what they theorized was a couple of pops to guarantee victory over the 49ers in the championship game. Tim told the story, then they talked about some stuff including John Madden's reaction, then talked about how Garrett wouldn't do something like that.

Went home, changed into something warm, hit the streets for some roadwork, adjusted the headset and punched in ESPN. This was maybe a couple of hours later.

At first, I thought I was hearing a replay of the earlier part of the show. I don't have an eidetic memory, but I thought I heard just enough variation from what I recalled to think this was not a rebroadcast. Tim told exactly the same story about the call, they talked about the same other stuff including Madden's reaction in almost exactly the same terms, and then they talked about Garrett. This wasn't just in passing -- it was just as long as the first time it aired at the beginning of the show.

Is this typical for that show?

The Plainsman said...

WARNINNG: A Plainsman sportsy thought:

Am I the only one who has thought from the beginning that Monte Kiffin and Bill Callahan were not going to be fired? Maybe reassigned or deprived of some authority under the table, but essentially back next year in something like their current roles (what that would be, I don't know).

Firing them, or either of them, would be Jerry admitting to two, or at least one, colossal blunder of which he was the sole author. Don't see it.

Doesn't mean there won't be changes, but if there is a change, it will be one that will allow him to dissemble his way out of admitting his incompetence.

Anonymous said...

Shaggy... Just saw your "challenge." Here's one example (there are many others): Okay, a "pre-say" as Norm once so awfully said, must be made before I get to an example. A very real danger can and does occur when statistical data is given so much weight on any human endeavor: the very humanity of the subjects is often lost. Players are dehumanized and looked upon in a mechanistic way; and at base they are viewed as commodities whose value lies in their production--rendering them objects or products that are seen in utterly utilitarian economic terms. They are means to an end. I don't know about anyone else, but I find that problematic. Most of this is fantasy driven. There is also the thrill, if you will, of being a sort of "sports scientist" that makes analytics attractive to many. I know when me any my friends are at a bar having a sports discussion and it goes down the analytics route (which it always does and these days almost immediately so), everyone around us is very impressed--well, those who aren't completely annoyed by us! Truth be told, the statistics involved in all of this is pretty low level stuff (I do a lot of programming in R, so I know of what I speak). It's the creative use of these tools that's impressive.

OK. Sorry Shaggy, overreaching: I'll make the point and then I'll paste a link to a site that is excellent regarding both sides of the coin. (Though the site is moving in a few weeks.)

In American sports (football, baseball, basketball, and hockey--yes I know they're played elsewhere but you get the idea), much of the data on individual players is only meaningful to that player and that position and in a certain circumstance. When that particular data for that particular player is applied to and interpreted alongside other players and their circumstances* within the field of play and then extrapolated to other games and circumstances, much of the data becomes less meaningful to meaningless. But because the data can and often does have meaningful predictive value for the particular player, that data is applied to the bigger predictive picture for both that particular player and circumstances and other players and circumstances. Even though the findings are superficial. More and more contract decisions, roster moves, signings, trades, in game strategies, etc., are being based upon this data. On the whole, it doesn't work. Hence, overreach. Hence, why the 7th rounder turns out to be your best WR. Et cetera.

Here's the link.

http://skepticalsports.com

T4 In Rockwall said...

I hear ya Plainsman about him trying not to admit a mistake. It would look bad if he fired Kiffen a year after letting Rob Ryan go and all this after Ryan goes and leads the NO defense to a high ranking. It's all in the drafting. If you draft right, a monkey could coach good players to a better defense than what the 'Boys have been throwing out there.

Gopher said...

Anyone else see this today?
http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/more-sports/headlines/20140117-founder-spence-kendrick-quick-to-credit-others-for-the-ticket-s-20-year-run.ece

Good story on how the money was raised to get KTCK on the air.

Anonymous said...

Thanks for the link, Gopher. Good stuff.

The Plainsman said...

Ditto. Strongly recommend pasting that link.

Stories like this remind us of the fragility of ideas, how difficult it is to get a new concept up and running. Subsequent success blinds us to the risk of the thing at its get-go.

Anonymous said...

Danny briefly regaled us today with the story of greggos last day.

Gopher said...

A story within the story from the link above.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/more-sports/headlines/20140117-hosts-from-the-ticket-s-start-reflect-on-its-origins-20-years-later.ece

Anonymous said...

Anon 1157, would you mind recapping what Danny said?

Anonymous said...

Nothing we haven't heard before. I don't think Danny was aware the now famous audio of greggos last day had been bouncing around the internet for a while now. Basically, they were talking about the fear of over sleeping and missing the show entirely, waking at 1pm. And how if that happens with most jobs it'd be not a huge deal, but with the radio industry if you simply don't show up the one's in charge will assume you're either in jail or possibly dead. He mentioned greggo was not in contact with anyone his last day up until he called into wtds. Cat was about ready to drive to his house and bang down the door, which at that time with his obvious drug abuse, he would more or less expect to find his body dead or Damn well near it. Then he scrapped together the excuses he used as to why he was late. He was on his boat earlier that day and it had run out of gas, couldn't find his phone, which is why he had to call in with his on-star service. Danny told it with a light, humorous tone, which makes me think he simply doesn't feel bad for the dude at all anymore. As if no one on the crew has even thought about him for years now. Any compassion or empathy that may have been there is non existent these days. Which makes total sense.

Anonymous said...

I don't see any reason for there to be any empathy for Greggo. He was jeopardizing their livelihood, not to mention looking them all straight in the eye and lying his a** off.

Anonymous said...

Thanks for the recap, 251.

@318
Agreed to a certain degree.

Anonymous said...

nobody cares about your wife. keep it to the ticket.

by the way how is josh hamilton coping with his ALS that you reported on?

Anonymous said...

wow, way harsh to the commenter above me.

i think it's safe to say that by the time greggo was calling into his own show, the crew were just worried about losing their jobs. now, it's a bad but almost funny memory way in the rearview mirror. that's why it's so funny when people talk about the hardline shaking in their boots about some rating book or whatever the fan or espn is putting up against them. they sweated when the core member of the team was throwing the entire show under the bus. it doesn't seem like ben and skin going head to head with them is anything near as threatening as one of your own holding your show hostage.

East Texas P1 said...

Dave posted this link to Greggo's last day at the Unticket

http://www.theunticket.com/audio-of-greggos-last-day-at-the-ticket/

P1 Wasteland said...

Pretty sad stuff, East Texas. You can hear at 2:50 when Mike says quickly, "cut him off." Probably referring to Greggo.

Anonymous said...

Oh look, the moron troll is back. Been some time since it last reared its pathetic head.

@304
No one said anything about THL or The Ticket shaking in their boots. Not even close. So, please, either address the actual things said, and not in a way that misrepresents others opinions in order to bolster your own. Thanks in advance. I'm going to assume you either don't read comments very carefully or you're in some way or another incapable of doing so. For your benefit, here's a brief summary:

The ratings book under discussion, as of this moment, IS an outlier. All here seem to agree on this point. However, said book doesn't appear to be caused by dry dock, the signal switch, or anything external or abnormal to a regular ratings period. This caught the attention of some commenters and Plainsman. Also, the two shows with the hours lost to ESPN happen not to be the two drive time shows. If there is/are a weak link(s) in Ticket programming (or at least likely shows to have inroads made against them) it would be Norm and BaD, the two shows in question vis-a-vis the book under discussion. This, to many of us, is interesting. Does it have meaning in the bigger picture/long term? Who knows. But it's interesting and worth keeping an eye on nonetheless. It is also worth discussing, and so, conjecturing, as to why this occurred and what might it mean. That's what a combox is for. The mere fact that you use B&S vs. THL as an example of our supposed claim that THL and The Ticket is "shaking in their boots" shoots your credibility to smithereens. Anyone who follows this site in the most cursory manner knows we find B&S to be the proverbial fly on the back of the 800 pound gorilla (and no I'm not talking about Jabari).

The upshot: Please at least know what your criticizing before you click the publish button. Else you come off like a village atheist.

Anonymous said...

@304
I wasn't calling you a troll. That was meant for 237. I should add, 237am. Yeah, just enough time to make it home from last call and still be cognizant enough to eke out some pathetic venom, projecting your self loathing onto a blog combos because once again you went home alone, before you fall asleep at the keyboard, drooling and crying softly.

Shaggy said...

You can also hear Corby whisper "don't ask where he is" when they return after Greggo was done.

slinky said...

Man, I loved that! Had not heard it since that "fateful" day. You just heard the last day of the "real" Hardline. I honestly thot Greggo sounded pretty much his normal self. The show has sucked since he's been gone!

The Plainsman said...

Love me some slinky but think you're wrong about The Hardline. The last year of Greg Williams's tenure on that show was embarrassing. You could tell something was very wrong and the joint was headed for a bad end and I was glad when they finally gave him the boot. I can't say whether this show is better than it was from 1994 to 2004 or thereabouts, but it's better than it was during most of my listening during the Greggo Era.

Anonymous said...

You're right about THL from 2006-07; Greggo was a hinderance. Prior to his downward spiral, today's HL doesn't even compare with the pre-GW drug abuse days.

slinky said...

I wish that clip continued a little longer. From what I remember, callers had called the station asking why Greggo was not on air. I think Grubes brought it up, and Danny followed with a "yeah, where's Greggo? Is he not there...what..he went home?" Mike and Corby should have said ,at the first of that segment, that Greggo had left for the day for personal reasons.

The Plainsman said...

Yeah, quite a day. I know I heard some of that day because I listened every day on the way home, and I remember the oddness of the unexplained Greggo absence -- although there had been others in the months leading up to the final split -- but I don't believe I heard the Greggo call-in. Thanks for posting.

Anonymous Ron said...

I was really confused that day. I heard Greggo call in but then I got out of the car to run an errand and when I got back in the car he was gone.

Anonymous said...

Top 20 Ticket moments? IMO if anything other than Greggos "what um, do you like this gig?" is at the top of the list then this thing is rigged. It should not be Gordo being arrested in GB "in my estimation"

Dan's Beach Towel said...

Will someone please try to surreptitiously record the "pull back the curtain" stuff on Saturday at Ticketstock? The P1's around the county (not in Dallas) will be very grateful.

Anonymous said...

Who is the well-endowed woman they keep talking about on e-news? It's not Denise Milani, is it?

sfo_p1 said...

I'm with Dan's Beach Towel - I would gladly pay some $$$ for a nice P1 to produce a listenable copy of Friday nights event.

Anonymous said...

Count me in with sfo and DBT.

Shaggy said...

They were talking about Katy Perry.

Emo-Samurai said...

They also mentioned the show True Detective and Alexandra Daddario's scene on that show. Google will help you.

deezy said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
deezy said...

The Ticket can be funny in their decision-making: they make it to the 20-year mark with many of their day one talent still intact, while cultivating a unique and sometimes rabid fan base that other stations would KILL for. Then they do "landmark" events like this and make a POINT of saying "you have to BE HERE to participate, it won't be broadcast, blah blah blah" (they did the same thing at fifteen years, though that was rebroadcast a couple of times on some obscure cable access channel IIRC.)

Do they not realize that people listen to the station from AROUND THE WORLD? Wait - of course they realize this.

I want to be there on Friday night, but I cannot. I would happily fork over $20 for an "official" DVD recording of this event. How is this not a win/win? The Ticket throws the out of town/unavoidably detained P-1 a bone, and makes a little money while doing so. If Full Disclosure can (continue to) sell, then so can this, right?

Then again, maybe they've considered this and decided against it - I guess we'll never know.

T4 In Rockwall said...

I'll be there Friday but how would you expect to P1 to record such activity? It's gonna be a madhouse with thousands (consequently millions) of us around and I can imagine the audio would be horrible with so much background noise.

T4 In Rockwall said...

Btw, I'm digging the new all numeral captia. It's a little easier to comment now.

Anonymous said...

A smartphone or a digital recorder, T4. Brutha, if you can pull it off, I will GLADLY pay you for a copy. I'm sure many other MTCers that can't be there would do the same.

Anonymous said...

Another idea is perhaps someone wouldn't mind live blogging or tweeting from it..... Pman, hint hint.