A home for those who love almost everything about The Ticket (1310 AM, 96.7 FM, Dallas-Fort Worth), and who would like to discuss -- respectfully and fondly -- their thoughts on how (and whether) to eliminate the "almost."
Sunday, August 20, 2023
Anyone Able to Go to the Hearing Tomorrow?
REMINDER: ALL COMMENTS FROM "ANONYMOUS" WILL BE DELETED.
REMINDER: ALL COMMENTS FROM "ANONYMOUS" WILL BE DELETED.
I won't be able to attend. Would love to have a report. No need to be a lawyer, you'll be able to figure out what's going on. As long as you can get through security, I would think you could find a spot in the courtroom.
Turn off your cell phone.
According to the Northern District of Texas website, she's at 1100 Commerce Street, Courtroom 1632.
Hearing is at 10 AM.
I don't know how Judge Scholer runs her docket. It's possible she'll go through some kind of routine motion call before conducting the hearing, so if you decide to go and don't see anyone who looks familiar, just sit for a bit and enjoy the legal pageant. Sometimes the docket will be posted outside the courtroom -- not sure how they do it in federal court anymore.
Thanks in advance to any Confessor who can attend and report.
@Zulu, Non sequitur much? "His second sentence could have been written by my grandmother in Zaire." Seems so. As well, it seems also that you're unaware of the contradiction between your words and actions. If, as you not so implicitly say, this place is mostly (or entirely) a waste of time, then why are you commenting? Why are you even taking the time to visit? Like so many since Dan and Jake left, you seem to have some sort of epistemic disconnect. It's an odd thing, but you are by no means alone. Snark away, my dude. Each new comment only further evinces your issues.
@Plainsman What I mean is that it's possible to have good intentions, self serving intentions, and create both an intentional and unintentional mess all at the same time. There seems to be this idea out there that there's a Good Team and an Evil Team, and that each is pure in their disposition. I do not hold in any way that either "team" is evil. Specifically, I use "exposed" as in brought to daylight, and not in the perjorative sense. I've no inside info. I'm only going off (rightly or wrongly) what I've seen thus far and what I've seen over the many years listening to Dan and Jake, watching Cumulus's sometimes headscratching business practices here and across the country, what I saw speficially with TF, its Ticket ex-pats, and local radio in general, and from what I've experienced and witnessed vis-a-vis human nature. There are no heroes here, only self-interested parties who each have points of merit and who have also had a difficult time, at times, articulating the truth. What I think is going to happen here, eventually, is that the curtain is going to be pulled waaaaay back, exposing individuals and situations to rather unflattering light. As previously stated, there seems to be this puritanical strain of dichotomized thinking going around: The Noble and Disabused Dan and Jake are fighting The Man on behalf of what's tantamount to serfdom/Dan and Jake are full of shit and have broken up the band and therefore deserve to be punished and care only for themselves and their new Freak overlords; and conversely, Cumulus is an evil entity that's done nothing for its employees other than steal from them, lie to them, and create an atmosphere of fear and loathing/Cumulus has done nothing for its employees other than afford them to live a dream life, and besides, they all knew what they were getting into so they have no right to piss and moan now.
yep. reckon by the week's end a settlement is reached and the 6 mo nc begins. blake wanted his to expire when there's did so they can all have the same start date. the timing's too perfect to be a coincidence. anyone wanna wager tc's 3rd host? gonna be hella interesting to see bob and dan go mano y mano come feb 24.
The tolling has been discussed a few threads back. The non-compete tolls during the pendency of the lawsuit. But I think that assumes that Cumulus gets a TRO and enjoins TDZ from podcasting for the litigation period. C
Pretty pathetic stuff @Wut. There was absolutely no cause for such a comment. But the comment says a lot about who you are, and none of it is positive. Hopefully Plainsman will take note of your immaturity and begin deleting your sadder comments, like the one above.
Gagree with Road. Wut the f is that anyway? Who comes into a friggin blog combox and takes on the role of kindergarten English teacher? If it's TLDR for you why bother? Strange flex bruh. This from the guy who steals other's identities.
Just got a report from a thoughtful Confessor present.
Bennett, Catlin, and Kemp present in the courtroom.
There is some discussion of asking for a continuance to permit the mediation to go forward tomorrow. Not clear who is promoting this motion (if it is a motion). Sounds like discussion with the court is just getting started. So maybe at least one party may have some genuine interest in discussing settlement.
Judge showing no interest in a continuance, saying this is their day in court if they want it, in light of the resources each side has devoted to the dispute to date.
At this writing the parties are meeting in her chambers (that is, nothing going on in open court right now), which may or may not be on the record. This permits a more free-flowing discussion between the parties. Most likely (my observation, not the Confessor present) she is exploring the likelihood of settlement.
So (again, this is me): The group will either emerge and get the hearing underway, or (more likely, I'm guessing) the judge will come out with the parties and announce an order on the record regarding continuance/scheduling.
The court has already scheduled this for full trial on December 12.
December 12th - again - the "tolling" portion of their employment agreements.
And for those unable/unwilling - it states as follows: "Employee furthers agrees that during the pendency of any litigation to enforce Section 7, including all appeals, the non-compete period identified herein shall automatically be tolled for such period of time until the litigation is and finally resolved"
- If they don't settle during meditation - which means D&J are unable to move elsewhere until their 6 months are done, which would have been on pause until that trial is complete. If they win maybe that ends up being about the same amount of time, or if they lose, would add at least 4 months.
I'm sure a good legal mind in this discussion would be able to provide more guidance on this, but this is how two different lawyers have explained it to me.
so, my guess is they "settle" in mediation, accept their six months (no additional tolling) and end up at TF and get to use the "Cumulus gave us no other choice!" - aka: "The Plan All Along".
My understanding from someone present is that both sides have new/different lawyers present which speaks to the fair criticism that many have levied against both of their respective strategies and filings to this point.
>My understanding from someone present is that both sides have new/different lawyers present which speaks to the fair criticism that many have levied against both of their respective strategies and filings to this point.
i mean, no shocker if it's Cumulus with more folks there
but are they talking additional people on the legal teams or new lead lawyers?
Dan and Jake have a team of lawyers that have been pulled together to form the labor dream team with respect to their NLRB strategy. They haven't decided to switch representation but it's just part of the team.
They were discussing Dan doing remote court on a couple of podcasts last week. He’s flying with his youngest daughter back to Ithaca via JFK. Can’t imagine Jake is thrilled at the thought of his co-defendant giving testimony at an effing Admiral’s Club
Frank G Cawley is the additional counsel for D+J. He made an appearance as co-counsel last week.
His linkedin is pretty slim. It looks like he just left a firm (Whitehurst and Cawley) and started his own shop Cawley Law Group, but the website is very new and slim on background also. https://www.cawleylawgroup.com/ It only has two practice areas corporate defense and personal injury.
His bar page says his practice areas are Insurance, Labor-Employment, Litigation: Commercial, Litigation: Personal Injury
It's definitely not a high profile guy, maybe a local guy with some knowledge of the Judge or specific facts to this matter. His name pops up a lot in federal filings in the Northern District. So he is probably a North District court specialist for D+J's dream team
Labor Dream Team. Man. Agree with Wut about Rocky Road and the concept of paragraphs, but a lot of what they said is dead on. Labor Dream Team is a prime example. I swear it's gotta be a gag or a long form Kaufman kinda joke. Right? Gotta be.
@IrishLaddy That's all already been gone over a few threads back. But thanks for summarizing it. Especially given the fact that they're in court today.
(1) Some kind of TRO will be entered, modified in some way from what Cumulus was seeking. We don't know what that is yet. We will likely see that order later today, along with the scheduling order.
(2) Preliminary injunction hearing scheduled for August 29. The judge is keeping the parties' feet to the fire to get the thing resolved.
(3) I do not have any information as to whether tomorrow's mediation will go forward.
I would like to thank the attorney Confessor who checked in with reports.
Irish Laddy think you're right about The Plan All Along. Blake's timely departure seems to all but seal that deal. It's been said many times here so I'm saying nothing new. I still don't understand any of this, even if trying to abolish non competes/change labor laws is something they wish to be involved in (not a thing wrong with that), I don't get this path they've purposely taken. Sit out your non compete, the one you knew was in the contract you willingly signed, then do your own thing in the way you want, and if that means hiring employees treat them in what you deem to be an equitable way and never include a non compete in their contracts. Or do your thing (pod, another station) and publicly crusade for better labor laws. Whatever combo you choose. But none of this makes sense. I can't help but get the feeling that DnJ are unwittingly being used as pawns for others' aims (publicity, earnings) and in the process have perhaps unwittingly involved their friends.
Mediation is still happening tomorrow, and I would bet heavily on a resolution being reached. One thing left unsaid above is that counsel for D&J indicated to the court that some pretty contentious testimony would likely come out on both sides (if I may use that phrase) should a hearing go forward. Not that that's shocking, but my guess is we see a notice of settlement filed by week's end.
Unless of course the steel-toed boot can wait no longer to be dropped.
When one side says it'd be in the best interest to settle because it could get nasty, know that that side is full of it and if indeed is genuinely concerned, it's because they're worried about what will be revealed about their case and their client and perhaps even their own motivation(s).
Steel. Toed. Boot. Coming. In. Hot. You either brace yourself or "all together run for cover."
Caveat: I was unable to attend the hearing this AM despite my best efforts. I will, of course, defer to anyone who was present who present conflicting facts.
Initial Thoughts
While we do not yet know the specifics of the TRO, the fact that one is being issued is significant for a number of reasons:
1. The most obvious reason is that Cumulus draws first blood. Despite their early missteps they have convinced the judge that immediate (even if temporary) relief is necessary to keep Cumulus from suffering “irreparable harm”. That is very high evidentiary threshold and one I honestly did not think Cumulus could satisfy. Wow.
2. I have seen questions about whether the mediation will still go forward tomorrow. When a judge – especially a federal one – orders you to mediation, you go to mediation. That’s not an invitation you can decline. If you don’t show, you are in contempt of court. Absent an order from the judge that vacates her order to mediate, the mediation goes forward tomorrow.
3. Unless the forthcoming TRO has some language that waters its effect down, something I highly doubt, SD+J go into mediation tomorrow with very little leverage. There’s a TRO in place and there’s a preliminary injunction looming on the horizon. Their best case scenario was a denial of the TRO or no ruling at all. By issuing the TRO before mediation, I think the judge is letting SD+J that she’s inclined to rule against them.
4. An extension of #3, the issuance of a TRO – again, have to wait to see what it says – tells me the judge does not buy the NLRB/Garmon preemption argument. Judges hate being overturned on appeal and, if she thought there was a chance the preemption may apply, she would have held off ruling on the TRO until after mediation. The NLRB/Garmon argument was SD+J’s strongest argument. If the judge isn’t going to give it much weight, that hurts SD+J’s bargaining power.
All things considered, this was a win for Cumulus and a loss for SD+J.
Couple of other notes from a rather uneventful hearing:
Judge Scholer was clearly eagerly anticipating this hearing and stated that many (I believe she said hundreds) of hours of court preparation time had been spent getting ready for this hearing.
Atlanta counsel for Cumulus identified CatMan to the court as Jeff "Caitlin." Perhaps those details are indeed lacking.
Joey, it is not a TRO in the sense others have suggested. It was an agreed order (the details of which were not stated in court) that sounded like D&J agreed not to podcast until the next hearing. There were no findings made by the court (and indeed no evidence taken). So calling it a win a bit much...I guess there will be a couple fewer competing podcasts.
"When one side says it'd be in the best interest to settle because it could get nasty, know that that side is full of it and if indeed is genuinely concerned,"
But aren't you the one saying the steel toed boot is coming from Cumulus and it's gonna get nasty?
Never thought of Jake and Dan being used by their advisors. Can't say it's not possible. Likely? Dunno. Could make some sense of the questions of why? and why in this way?. Some sense but not all. Pre say that I'm going to get shiddon for saying it but here goes. Jake and Dan aren't nearly the geniuses some of you think. Can see them being taken for a ride and believing the hype. Also totally see them digging thinking of themselves and being thought of as labor activists. Kinda goes to the non genius thing. Hype is a drug. Whatever. Popcorn is popped and I'm enjoying the show. Let's go!
Agreed order dropped (https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.txnd.379893/gov.uscourts.txnd.379893.29.0.pdf)
-No podcasts until after PI hearing on 8/29
-Not required to pull down existing podcasts/YouTubes
-D&J agree to "cease commenting on, and publishing any social media posts or other public posts, concerning this litigation, the Ticket, the Plaintiff and any employee or affiliate of the Plaintiff"
It seems like the parties don't want to air dirty laundry if they can reach some sort of agreement.
Could a settlement be reached without a full 6 month absence? Maybe if D+J agree to change the name to a non-ticket name and no free episodes on YT or the Patreon (enough people have discovered the patreon by now that could be an issue to concede for the boys), continue the patreon with half the proceeds paid to Cumulus, or agree to a complete stop for something less than 6 months? 3 months? If Cumulus is a full 6 month absence, I wonder if the boys would be willing to fight if they lose in December and have the rest of the 6 months to finish out, Keeping them off all audio medium for a year.
Friendly Reporter - your point is well taken. I was misinformed as to what took place today. If all that was agreed was that SD+J would not podcast until the next hearing then most - if not all - of my post is irrelevant and I agree it was, at best, a minor victory for Cumulus.
Plainsman - I am fine with you deleting my earlier post [1:04pm]. The last thing I want to do is misrepresent the facts or mislead anyone. My apologies - I clearly need to be more critical of the source of this information.
@Anonymous 116: Anon, I'm leaving you up because I have neglected to post the message I have tried to remember posting either over or under each ginger, which is that Anonymous posts are no longer allowed and will be stricken. I assume you did not have notice of that, so you survive.
Well, Legal EGL, I never said nasty. Did I. I know, I know. This one's going to be a tough one, pal, for you fanboys. But it's en route. I said Monday. That's today. Ever played contact sports, bud? Sometimes you get injured. Injured pretty badly at that. But that adrenaline works its temporary majick and you don't feel it right away. It's only when you stop playing for a few minutes that you realize oh shit my hand's fractured. That's when the pain begins. Run with that analogy, sport. Back to the nasty. Nothing nasty about it. Nasty implies dirty deeds done dirt cheap (always was a Bon guy). Only shenanigans going on here on the labor dream team side. Love em, hate em, be indifferent. Cumulus is in the right here. At least in the legal sense. Or in the legal sense as it presently stands. Never even said who I'm rooting for. Assuming makes an ass out of you and me. Well, in this case it really is you and not me.
Thinking about it more, I actually wonder how much Cumulus can give up in settlement. I'm sure any settlement would have confidentiality, but it will be pretty obvious if there is a settlement and then D&J go back on podcast/radio in 3 or 6 months. I'm betting that 6-month term is quite standard for their many, many on-air personality contracts. If they bend it here, it pretty loudly gives the message that all you have to do is blatantly ignore the NC and worst case scenario you sit out 3 months (or whatever agreed term it would be).
Somebody needs to switch out his caffeinated meth for decaf something or other.
He thinks he knows of some massive occurrence today but his Qanon-adjacent ramblings defeat any purpose he might have. That, and he's been swinging this steel toed boot garbage the entire time and he has, clearly, a gigantic bag.
I don’t know if used is right word, or if they just bought their lawyers hype. Reread their response. Listen to Bruenig. He had them (imo) convinced that the NLRB hates non competes and that Cumulus had no leg to stand on, this couldn’t even be heard in federal court, it would go right to the NLRB. Funny that there’s no commentary from the in court folks about that angle.
As I’ve been saying for a while, Jake’s non compete language was their Achilles heel. I think the reason we got the faux TRO (agreed upon order potato, TRO pahtato) is that for all the sound and fury, for all the noise, this boils down to Jake competing in direct violation of a non compete. I think the 8 day TRO is the judge foreshadowing what happens if they don’t rewrite the plot in mediation tomorrow. C
that's pretty much what it seems like, just some ramblings of "see i was right" that comes across like some $30,000 millionaire who just left an uptown bathroom with a nose full of coke.
also he says he isn't pulling for a side, but don't know how anyone could read his ramblings and think he is on anything but management's side in this dispute? which is a super weird thing to be excited about in general.
C, I have to push back on today being any kind of foreshadowing from the court. She very clearly wanted to go forward today and was annoyed that the continuance and agreed order were being brought up at the last second.
D&J's attorney said that Dan asked yesterday if they could continue the hearing until after court-ordered mediation in order to avoid the contentious issues being brought out in public. In response, Cumulus's attorney said that they had every intention of going forward today unless D&J agreed not to take certain actions (spelled out in the agreed order). Apparently there was no agreement on terms until a few minutes before the hearing this morning. Again, it clearly irritated the court, and everyone was asked why sooner action was not taken.
All that to say, I think the court kept the pressure on everybody equally and then signed an order that both parties presented to her.
I’ve read some but not all the pleadings. I haven’t read the exhibits, but I believe Jake’s contract has a right of 1st refusal. Not sure about Dan’s. I think a right of first refusal is pretty unusual in a radio personality contract. Having both a 6 month noncompete and right of first refusal makes it hard to negotiate a new deal with a competitor as a practical matter. I don’t know if Jake had an agent or experienced attorney review the contract before signing, but both in a contract is a hard pill to swallow.
I say this because the easiest settlement IMO is (1) 6 mo noncompete from day they quit; (2) confidentiality and speak nice of one another; (3) right of first refusal is waived; & (4) D&J can’t discuss or promote new gig for some period of time or until noncompete is over.
Elizabeth F. Griffin as the 4th member of the dream teams is interesting. Clark Hill is a very reputable national firm, and she has the most skins on the wall of the team. Not a partner, but a Senior Attorney so it would still be an expensive fee amount. This is likely not a pro-bono or discount like the others seem to have been so far. The boys will be paying out some real cash for her services
Sorry, Run. Didn't mean in the physical sense. Don't want to give off the wrong impression, pal. Only meant here at MTC. Well, at least not as Run. I'm just not sure what the fanboys will do once The Boys are no longer to do or say anything anything related.
Alright alright alright. My work is done here. Later, Skaters.
And please. And I mean this. Fanboys and gals, don't let it get you down. The Boys WILL be back in town. The time will pass in no time flat. What is it? Tempus fugit.
To quote a musical genius, "I know you'll miss me, I know you'll miss me." (my dude, Boy George)
"I say this because the easiest settlement IMO is (1) 6 mo noncompete from day they quit; (2) confidentiality and speak nice of one another; (3) right of first refusal is waived; & (4) D&J can’t discuss or promote new gig for some period of time or until noncompete is over."
This is what I've been thinking for sometime now, as well.
Finally dug up a copy of Dan and Jake’s contracts. The right of first refusal language is largely the same.
For those wondering why don’t they go sign with Freak or Fan and get paid to shut up for 6 months, they can’t as a practical matter.
I do note that Dan’s 2018 K has language about moving to a “more favorable time slot”-I’ve long suspected Dan was privately miffed at not going to afternoon drive with Bob. Make of that what you will.
this is the first time i have ever replied to you, your writing style is somehow quite noticeable and pretty terrible at getting things across at the same time.
Dude is rather creepy but effective. I've never seen someone who so obviously was trolling draw so many so far off the farm. Hope they make good on their promise because I've grown so very weary of all the trolls and those who continually feed them. At this point I could care less about the outcome of the litigation. I just want an ending so that the final analyses can ensue and then we can begin to move past all of this and get MTC back to being MTC. Now that I think about it, I'm not so sure if that will ever happen, regardless of the outcome. Oh well. All good things come to an end. MTC is no exception.
Piecing together the various accounts, it seems to me that what the court did is less interesting than what the parties did, or are reported to have done:
(1) Sounds like Cumulus came loaded for bear and not terribly afraid of a public record; and DAN wanted to keep "dirty laundry" safe from the public?
(2) Someone above called this an agreed order, which makes sense. If so, then the lads more-or-less agreed to the TRO on the restrictive covenant issues (with some not-very-difficult restrictions on Cumulus as well), which, even if the court had entered it, would only have lasted ten days. I do NOT necessarily call this a solid Cumulus victory, since the lads' agreement doesn't impact them for very long, but -- same as point #1 -- it looks like something the lads agreed to to avoid going forward with a public hearing today. Given the crusading tone their counsel is apparently still advancing (per the account by the correspondent who spoke to one of their lawyers after the hearing), this outcome seems just a little odd.
(3) I don't know Ms. Griffin. Titles vary from firm to firm, but in the larger firms I've toiled in, "Senior Attorney" is among titles given to lawyers considered talented and valuable to the firm who have been around for a while but who have not been made partner for one reason or another. Looks like she's been practicing for nine years, perhaps not all of them with that firm. She does not seem to have particular NLRA/NLRB experience; doesn't advertise it, anyway, although "Employment and Labor Law" is generically referenced in her list of areas of practice, alongside many others. Undoubtedly has some other lawyerly virtues current counsel think will benefit the defense.
Overall -- fairly slight advantage Cumulus, based on what seems like an ambiguity in the lads' enthusiasm for a hearing on the merits.
One more thing: Many variables go into the calculus of where these things end up. The parties and court palavered for quite some time, and a lot got said and agreed and phone calls to headquarters got made, all of which may have brought considerations to bear that make all of our guessing look silly.
So: Suggest that none of us be too certain about what happened, why, and what's next.
@Plainsman: one other note: the parties DID make an announcement of who their witnesses would be today. Cumulus said Cat and Bennett. D&J said D&J and then maybe the Eatzi's CEO. Doesn't mean a whole lot now, because strategies could change drastically in a week, but I thought it was interesting that Cumulus did not have a witness in pocket to talk about the alleged advertiser poaching (unless it was just crossing Mr. Eatzi's) nor did they signal an intention to call Corby or Bob to discuss The Meeting.
One other humorous observation: at one point when the judge was in chambers, a court staffer was testing the microphones for Zoom capabilities and asked D&J's attorney to play one of their audio clips (apparently knowing they had several), and the D&J attorney played one broadcast quite loudly in the courtroom of Corby saying "I hope they kick major ass in podcasting."
pman, I think it is more than a slight advantage for Cumulus. They got something that they wanted, essentially a TRO. And as a bonus SD+J can't talk about the case in public. Yes, the bizarre part is that it was SD+J who didn't want to go ahead with the hearing. What does this say about their case?
The only victory for SD+J is that they get to keep playing the role of martyr. Cumulus won't let them broadcast, won't let them podcast, won't let them talk to their fanbase about the case.
Can they abide by the order they agreed to? I ask this based on what we have seen from them since they announced they're leaving The Ticket.
My prediction: The lack of new SD+J content drives Surly back to MTC to resume his unique brand of trolling.
There is nothing on file that rescinds the court's order to mediate today, so I think we can safely assume the mediation occurred/is still occurring today. As to the outcome ... unless someone has an inside source, we probably will not know anything today.
I’ve attended mediations that have extended well into the late evening. Usually a good sign as progress is being made.
I’ve also attended full day mediations that are cut short due to one party being completely unreasonable. Highly doubt that happens here, as the Judge would be quite displeased at the stubborn party.
If I were a wagering man, I would bet something gets resolved today and we hear from Dan and Jake sooner rather than later (still behind a paywall for the foreseeable future).
Cumulus has quite a bit to lose if they take this to court and Dan and Jake win. Some armchair experts here give them a low chance of winning, but once things go to trial, any chance, even a low one, would scare Cumulus. A judgement would upend their business and threaten all current contracts with on air talent. And every attorney could read the judgement and know how to proceed when challenging Cumulus.
Or, they could settle. Keep everything behind closed doors. Take what they have learned, and instead of paying attorneys to take this case to trial, they can now pay attorneys to shore up their contract language, and spend some money on management training (don’t tell employees they can’t talk about wages).
This only works if Dan and Jake make a good faith effort and are willing to negotiate.
Who says no to the following?
For the next 6 months from today: -No terrestrial radio -No solicitation of advertisers -No live broadcasts -No discussion of the (former) suit And -NLRB charge dropped
In exchange: Keep DumbZone name Podcast allowed behind paywall One free episode per week, dropped any time besides M-F 5:30A-7:00P
It is routine that a mediation decision is often made up to a week later in some type of mediator's proposal. Unless there are major non-starters from either side, a mediator tries to decide a good middle point after spending the day with each party and sends them a proposal which consists of each side giving in more than they originally wanted to before the day started.
If it wasn't close and Cumulus offered only non-starters, the mediator will send a letter usually within 24 hours to the Court that the mediation was unsuccessful and thank them for selecting them as mediator.
If the negotiations were close, we might not hear about it until next Monday before the PI hearing while the particulars of the agreement are ironed out. They will not be able to move the hearing again, so they will either settle or have the hearing. The longer we hear nothing, the better it would be for some type of settlement.
"Cumulus has quite a bit to lose if they take this to court and Dan and Jake win. Some armchair experts here give them a low chance of winning, but once things go to trial, any chance, even a low one, would scare Cumulus. A judgement would upend their business and threaten all current contracts with on air talent. And every attorney could read the judgement and know how to proceed when challenging Cumulus.
Or, they could settle. Keep everything behind closed doors. Take what they have learned, and instead of paying attorneys to take this case to trial, they can now pay attorneys to shore up their contract language, and spend some money on management training (don’t tell employees they can’t talk about wages)."
I'm not sure if this isn't the other way around. After all, it was DnJ's team (and Dan himself) who basically said let's not air our dirty laundry. Guess we'll find out soon enough. Also. Your proposed settlement would pretty much mean DnJ keep doing what they were doing since leaving TT and Cumulus goes along with it. Why would Cumulus have even filed suit in the first place? The whole thing gives me tired head. I do hope it's all resolved ASAP.
IF I were D+J one of the easiest concessions to make is giving up TDZ name. You need the name to get everyone to follow you to the new place. almost 5K people have done that already. If they change the name of the podcast to VAJ radio or some other bit, we will all know what it is and so will the near 5K subscribers. They were THZ for only a couple of years and that worked out. They can succeed easily with a different name like Dragon Den to use their Dragon Den Productions LLC they started
@ Javier, it’s obvious D&J will want to resume casting immediately post some sort of settlement. If I’m Atlanta I only agree to that in exchange for a longer terrestrial non compete. 12 months. Take their plan B (or plan A like many commenters think) off the table and let them try to build their digital empire. It’s smart too, not knowing how the new shows’ ratings will go in the next few months. The Fan will get their typical Cowboys season bump soon. And as much as we all dunk on the Freak (deservedly so) they have theoretical ratings upside because they’re so damn low to begin with.
I won't be able to attend. Would love to have a report. No need to be a lawyer, you'll be able to figure out what's going on. As long as you can get through security, I would think you could find a spot in the courtroom.
ReplyDeleteTurn off your cell phone.
According to the Northern District of Texas website, she's at 1100 Commerce Street, Courtroom 1632.
Hearing is at 10 AM.
I don't know how Judge Scholer runs her docket. It's possible she'll go through some kind of routine motion call before conducting the hearing, so if you decide to go and don't see anyone who looks familiar, just sit for a bit and enjoy the legal pageant. Sometimes the docket will be posted outside the courtroom -- not sure how they do it in federal court anymore.
Thanks in advance to any Confessor who can attend and report.
@Zulu,
ReplyDeleteNon sequitur much? "His second sentence could have been written by my grandmother in Zaire." Seems so. As well, it seems also that you're unaware of the contradiction between your words and actions. If, as you not so implicitly say, this place is mostly (or entirely) a waste of time, then why are you commenting? Why are you even taking the time to visit? Like so many since Dan and Jake left, you seem to have some sort of epistemic disconnect. It's an odd thing, but you are by no means alone. Snark away, my dude. Each new comment only further evinces your issues.
@Plainsman
What I mean is that it's possible to have good intentions, self serving intentions, and create both an intentional and unintentional mess all at the same time. There seems to be this idea out there that there's a Good Team and an Evil Team, and that each is pure in their disposition. I do not hold in any way that either "team" is evil. Specifically, I use "exposed" as in brought to daylight, and not in the perjorative sense. I've no inside info. I'm only going off (rightly or wrongly) what I've seen thus far and what I've seen over the many years listening to Dan and Jake, watching Cumulus's sometimes headscratching business practices here and across the country, what I saw speficially with TF, its Ticket ex-pats, and local radio in general, and from what I've experienced and witnessed vis-a-vis human nature. There are no heroes here, only self-interested parties who each have points of merit and who have also had a difficult time, at times, articulating the truth. What I think is going to happen here, eventually, is that the curtain is going to be pulled waaaaay back, exposing individuals and situations to rather unflattering light. As previously stated, there seems to be this puritanical strain of dichotomized thinking going around: The Noble and Disabused Dan and Jake are fighting The Man on behalf of what's tantamount to serfdom/Dan and Jake are full of shit and have broken up the band and therefore deserve to be punished and care only for themselves and their new Freak overlords; and conversely, Cumulus is an evil entity that's done nothing for its employees other than steal from them, lie to them, and create an atmosphere of fear and loathing/Cumulus has done nothing for its employees other than afford them to live a dream life, and besides, they all knew what they were getting into so they have no right to piss and moan now.
I hope this helps.
Monty announced today that Blake quit. Friday was his last day and he didn’t really tell anyone or want to talk about it on the air.
ReplyDeleteyep. reckon by the week's end a settlement is reached and the 6 mo nc begins. blake wanted his to expire when there's did so they can all have the same start date. the timing's too perfect to be a coincidence. anyone wanna wager tc's 3rd host? gonna be hella interesting to see bob and dan go mano y mano come feb 24.
ReplyDelete...and yet, no one - still - is talking about "tolling"...
ReplyDeletelook it up, it's in both of their employment contracts.
Say, IrishLaddy, ince you're apparently in the know, why don't you enlighten us? It's time, buddy, it's tiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiime.
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeleteNot to be a dick (I’m being one). Could longer rambling, highly punctuated posts have more “paragraph” breaks?
It’s way easier to read. No one likes a block of text.
The tolling has been discussed a few threads back. The non-compete tolls during the pendency of the lawsuit. But I think that assumes that Cumulus gets a TRO and enjoins TDZ from podcasting for the litigation period.
ReplyDeleteC
Pretty pathetic stuff @Wut. There was absolutely no cause for such a comment. But the comment says a lot about who you are, and none of it is positive. Hopefully Plainsman will take note of your immaturity and begin deleting your sadder comments, like the one above.
ReplyDeleteGagree with Road. Wut the f is that anyway? Who comes into a friggin blog combox and takes on the role of kindergarten English teacher? If it's TLDR for you why bother? Strange flex bruh. This from the guy who steals other's identities.
ReplyDeletePlainsman,
ReplyDeleteAre the court proceedings being broadcast live today? Do they have a live feed option online to the best of anyone's knowledge?
There will be no livestream. Be there or be square.
ReplyDeleteJust got a report from a thoughtful Confessor present.
ReplyDeleteBennett, Catlin, and Kemp present in the courtroom.
There is some discussion of asking for a continuance to permit the mediation to go forward tomorrow. Not clear who is promoting this motion (if it is a motion). Sounds like discussion with the court is just getting started. So maybe at least one party may have some genuine interest in discussing settlement.
UPDATE:
ReplyDeleteJudge showing no interest in a continuance, saying this is their day in court if they want it, in light of the resources each side has devoted to the dispute to date.
At this writing the parties are meeting in her chambers (that is, nothing going on in open court right now), which may or may not be on the record. This permits a more free-flowing discussion between the parties. Most likely (my observation, not the Confessor present) she is exploring the likelihood of settlement.
So (again, this is me): The group will either emerge and get the hearing underway, or (more likely, I'm guessing) the judge will come out with the parties and announce an order on the record regarding continuance/scheduling.
The court has already scheduled this for full trial on December 12.
December 12th - again - the "tolling" portion of their employment agreements.
DeleteAnd for those unable/unwilling - it states as follows: "Employee furthers agrees that during the pendency of any litigation to enforce Section 7, including all appeals, the non-compete period identified herein shall automatically be tolled for such period of time until the litigation is and finally resolved"
- If they don't settle during meditation - which means D&J are unable to move elsewhere until their 6 months are done, which would have been on pause until that trial is complete. If they win maybe that ends up being about the same amount of time, or if they lose, would add at least 4 months.
I'm sure a good legal mind in this discussion would be able to provide more guidance on this, but this is how two different lawyers have explained it to me.
so, my guess is they "settle" in mediation, accept their six months (no additional tolling) and end up at TF and get to use the "Cumulus gave us no other choice!" - aka: "The Plan All Along".
My understanding from someone present is that both sides have new/different lawyers present which speaks to the fair criticism that many have levied against both of their respective strategies and filings to this point.
ReplyDelete>My understanding from someone present is that both sides have new/different lawyers present which speaks to the fair criticism that many have levied against both of their respective strategies and filings to this point.
ReplyDeletei mean, no shocker if it's Cumulus with more folks there
but are they talking additional people on the legal teams or new lead lawyers?
Dan and Jake have a team of lawyers that have been pulled together to form the labor dream team with respect to their NLRB strategy. They haven't decided to switch representation but it's just part of the team.
ReplyDeleteFYI: Defendants have received permission to have Dan "present" to testify by computer feed if necessary.
ReplyDeleteThey were discussing Dan doing remote court on a couple of podcasts last week. He’s flying with his youngest daughter back to Ithaca via JFK. Can’t imagine Jake is thrilled at the thought of his co-defendant giving testimony at an effing Admiral’s Club
ReplyDeleteDoes Dan have Covid again? It seems unusual he would fail to attend this.
ReplyDeleteFrank G Cawley is the additional counsel for D+J. He made an appearance as co-counsel last week.
ReplyDeleteHis linkedin is pretty slim. It looks like he just left a firm (Whitehurst and Cawley) and started his own shop Cawley Law Group, but the website is very new and slim on background also. https://www.cawleylawgroup.com/ It only has two practice areas corporate defense and personal injury.
His bar page says his practice areas are Insurance, Labor-Employment, Litigation: Commercial, Litigation: Personal Injury
It's definitely not a high profile guy, maybe a local guy with some knowledge of the Judge or specific facts to this matter. His name pops up a lot in federal filings in the Northern District. So he is probably a North District court specialist for D+J's dream team
What if Dan got COMPUTER to present? #Bits
ReplyDeleteLabor Dream Team. Man. Agree with Wut about Rocky Road and the concept of paragraphs, but a lot of what they said is dead on. Labor Dream Team is a prime example. I swear it's gotta be a gag or a long form Kaufman kinda joke. Right? Gotta be.
ReplyDelete@IrishLaddy
ReplyDeleteThat's all already been gone over a few threads back. But thanks for summarizing it. Especially given the fact that they're in court today.
UPDATE:
ReplyDelete(1) Some kind of TRO will be entered, modified in some way from what Cumulus was seeking. We don't know what that is yet. We will likely see that order later today, along with the scheduling order.
(2) Preliminary injunction hearing scheduled for August 29. The judge is keeping the parties' feet to the fire to get the thing resolved.
(3) I do not have any information as to whether tomorrow's mediation will go forward.
I would like to thank the attorney Confessor who checked in with reports.
If you had to speculate, do you anticipate this being resolved at the mediation tomorrow? (Provided that's still happening).
DeleteI believe Dan was taking a daughter to school. Not sick.
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeleteIrish Laddy think you're right about The Plan All Along. Blake's timely departure seems to all but seal that deal. It's been said many times here so I'm saying nothing new. I still don't understand any of this, even if trying to abolish non competes/change labor laws is something they wish to be involved in (not a thing wrong with that), I don't get this path they've purposely taken. Sit out your non compete, the one you knew was in the contract you willingly signed, then do your own thing in the way you want, and if that means hiring employees treat them in what you deem to be an equitable way and never include a non compete in their contracts. Or do your thing (pod, another station) and publicly crusade for better labor laws. Whatever combo you choose. But none of this makes sense. I can't help but get the feeling that DnJ are unwittingly being used as pawns for others' aims (publicity, earnings) and in the process have perhaps unwittingly involved their friends.
Update from Reddit user at the court:
ReplyDeletehttps://www.reddit.com/r/theticket/comments/15x879l/today_is_the_day/jx5jmjz/
Mediation is still happening tomorrow, and I would bet heavily on a resolution being reached. One thing left unsaid above is that counsel for D&J indicated to the court that some pretty contentious testimony would likely come out on both sides (if I may use that phrase) should a hearing go forward. Not that that's shocking, but my guess is we see a notice of settlement filed by week's end.
ReplyDeleteUnless of course the steel-toed boot can wait no longer to be dropped.
When one side says it'd be in the best interest to settle because it could get nasty, know that that side is full of it and if indeed is genuinely concerned, it's because they're worried about what will be revealed about their case and their client and perhaps even their own motivation(s).
ReplyDeleteSteel. Toed. Boot. Coming. In. Hot. You either brace yourself or "all together run for cover."
...don't walk...from this troll's consistent and completely unfounded commentary.
DeleteCaveat: I was unable to attend the hearing this AM despite my best efforts. I will, of course, defer to anyone who was present who present conflicting facts.
ReplyDeleteInitial Thoughts
While we do not yet know the specifics of the TRO, the fact that one is being issued is significant for a number of reasons:
1. The most obvious reason is that Cumulus draws first blood. Despite their early missteps they have convinced the judge that immediate (even if temporary) relief is necessary to keep Cumulus from suffering “irreparable harm”. That is very high evidentiary threshold and one I honestly did not think Cumulus could satisfy. Wow.
2. I have seen questions about whether the mediation will still go forward tomorrow. When a judge – especially a federal one – orders you to mediation, you go to mediation. That’s not an invitation you can decline. If you don’t show, you are in contempt of court. Absent an order from the judge that vacates her order to mediate, the mediation goes forward tomorrow.
3. Unless the forthcoming TRO has some language that waters its effect down, something I highly doubt, SD+J go into mediation tomorrow with very little leverage. There’s a TRO in place and there’s a preliminary injunction looming on the horizon. Their best case scenario was a denial of the TRO or no ruling at all. By issuing the TRO before mediation, I think the judge is letting SD+J that she’s inclined to rule against them.
4. An extension of #3, the issuance of a TRO – again, have to wait to see what it says – tells me the judge does not buy the NLRB/Garmon preemption argument. Judges hate being overturned on appeal and, if she thought there was a chance the preemption may apply, she would have held off ruling on the TRO until after mediation. The NLRB/Garmon argument was SD+J’s strongest argument. If the judge isn’t going to give it much weight, that hurts SD+J’s bargaining power.
All things considered, this was a win for Cumulus and a loss for SD+J.
I don't necessarily disagree, Walk.
ReplyDeleteCouple of other notes from a rather uneventful hearing:
Judge Scholer was clearly eagerly anticipating this hearing and stated that many (I believe she said hundreds) of hours of court preparation time had been spent getting ready for this hearing.
Atlanta counsel for Cumulus identified CatMan to the court as Jeff "Caitlin." Perhaps those details are indeed lacking.
Jub's Dan Bennett impression is spot-on.
Joey, it is not a TRO in the sense others have suggested. It was an agreed order (the details of which were not stated in court) that sounded like D&J agreed not to podcast until the next hearing. There were no findings made by the court (and indeed no evidence taken). So calling it a win a bit much...I guess there will be a couple fewer competing podcasts.
ReplyDelete"When one side says it'd be in the best interest to settle because it could get nasty, know that that side is full of it and if indeed is genuinely concerned,"
ReplyDeleteBut aren't you the one saying the steel toed boot is coming from Cumulus and it's gonna get nasty?
Never thought of Jake and Dan being used by their advisors. Can't say it's not possible. Likely? Dunno. Could make some sense of the questions of why? and why in this way?. Some sense but not all. Pre say that I'm going to get shiddon for saying it but here goes. Jake and Dan aren't nearly the geniuses some of you think. Can see them being taken for a ride and believing the hype. Also totally see them digging thinking of themselves and being thought of as labor activists. Kinda goes to the non genius thing. Hype is a drug. Whatever. Popcorn is popped and I'm enjoying the show. Let's go!
ReplyDeleteAgreed order dropped (https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.txnd.379893/gov.uscourts.txnd.379893.29.0.pdf)
ReplyDelete-No podcasts until after PI hearing on 8/29
-Not required to pull down existing podcasts/YouTubes
-D&J agree to "cease commenting on, and publishing any social media posts or other public posts, concerning this litigation, the Ticket, the Plaintiff and any employee or affiliate of the Plaintiff"
I should clarify here. The agreed order is in place until 8/29, during which period the 3 stipulations above apply.
DeletePresumably there is an expectation that the mediation (or, subsequently, the PI shearing) will resolve the matters on a going forward basis post-8/29.
It seems like the parties don't want to air dirty laundry if they can reach some sort of agreement.
ReplyDeleteCould a settlement be reached without a full 6 month absence? Maybe if D+J agree to change the name to a non-ticket name and no free episodes on YT or the Patreon (enough people have discovered the patreon by now that could be an issue to concede for the boys), continue the patreon with half the proceeds paid to Cumulus, or agree to a complete stop for something less than 6 months? 3 months? If Cumulus is a full 6 month absence, I wonder if the boys would be willing to fight if they lose in December and have the rest of the 6 months to finish out, Keeping them off all audio medium for a year.
Friendly Reporter - your point is well taken. I was misinformed as to what took place today. If all that was agreed was that SD+J would not podcast until the next hearing then most - if not all - of my post is irrelevant and I agree it was, at best, a minor victory for Cumulus.
ReplyDeletePlainsman - I am fine with you deleting my earlier post [1:04pm]. The last thing I want to do is misrepresent the facts or mislead anyone. My apologies - I clearly need to be more critical of the source of this information.
@Anonymous 116: Anon, I'm leaving you up because I have neglected to post the message I have tried to remember posting either over or under each ginger, which is that Anonymous posts are no longer allowed and will be stricken. I assume you did not have notice of that, so you survive.
ReplyDeleteWell, Legal EGL, I never said nasty. Did I. I know, I know. This one's going to be a tough one, pal, for you fanboys. But it's en route. I said Monday. That's today. Ever played contact sports, bud? Sometimes you get injured. Injured pretty badly at that. But that adrenaline works its temporary majick and you don't feel it right away. It's only when you stop playing for a few minutes that you realize oh shit my hand's fractured. That's when the pain begins. Run with that analogy, sport. Back to the nasty. Nothing nasty about it. Nasty implies dirty deeds done dirt cheap (always was a Bon guy). Only shenanigans going on here on the labor dream team side. Love em, hate em, be indifferent. Cumulus is in the right here. At least in the legal sense. Or in the legal sense as it presently stands. Never even said who I'm rooting for. Assuming makes an ass out of you and me. Well, in this case it really is you and not me.
ReplyDeleteElizabeth F. Griffin is the new D&J attorney.
ReplyDeleteThinking about it more, I actually wonder how much Cumulus can give up in settlement. I'm sure any settlement would have confidentiality, but it will be pretty obvious if there is a settlement and then D&J go back on podcast/radio in 3 or 6 months. I'm betting that 6-month term is quite standard for their many, many on-air personality contracts. If they bend it here, it pretty loudly gives the message that all you have to do is blatantly ignore the NC and worst case scenario you sit out 3 months (or whatever agreed term it would be).
ReplyDeletewtf is that guy even @126p even talking about?
ReplyDeleteSomebody needs to switch out his caffeinated meth for decaf something or other.
DeleteHe thinks he knows of some massive occurrence today but his Qanon-adjacent ramblings defeat any purpose he might have. That, and he's been swinging this steel toed boot garbage the entire time and he has, clearly, a gigantic bag.
Try and keep up, Baron.
ReplyDeleteI don’t know if used is right word, or if they just bought their lawyers hype. Reread their response. Listen to Bruenig. He had them (imo) convinced that the NLRB hates non competes and that Cumulus had no leg to stand on, this couldn’t even be heard in federal court, it would go right to the NLRB. Funny that there’s no commentary from the in court folks about that angle.
ReplyDeleteAs I’ve been saying for a while, Jake’s non compete language was their Achilles heel. I think the reason we got the faux TRO (agreed upon order potato, TRO pahtato) is that for all the sound and fury, for all the noise, this boils down to Jake competing in direct violation of a non compete. I think the 8 day TRO is the judge foreshadowing what happens if they don’t rewrite the plot in mediation tomorrow.
C
that's pretty much what it seems like, just some ramblings of "see i was right" that comes across like some $30,000 millionaire who just left an uptown bathroom with a nose full of coke.
ReplyDeletealso he says he isn't pulling for a side, but don't know how anyone could read his ramblings and think he is on anything but management's side in this dispute? which is a super weird thing to be excited about in general.
C, I have to push back on today being any kind of foreshadowing from the court. She very clearly wanted to go forward today and was annoyed that the continuance and agreed order were being brought up at the last second.
ReplyDeleteD&J's attorney said that Dan asked yesterday if they could continue the hearing until after court-ordered mediation in order to avoid the contentious issues being brought out in public. In response, Cumulus's attorney said that they had every intention of going forward today unless D&J agreed not to take certain actions (spelled out in the agreed order). Apparently there was no agreement on terms until a few minutes before the hearing this morning. Again, it clearly irritated the court, and everyone was asked why sooner action was not taken.
All that to say, I think the court kept the pressure on everybody equally and then signed an order that both parties presented to her.
I’ve read some but not all the pleadings. I haven’t read the exhibits, but I believe Jake’s contract has a right of 1st refusal. Not sure about Dan’s. I think a right of first refusal is pretty unusual in a radio personality contract. Having both a 6 month noncompete and right of first refusal makes it hard to negotiate a new deal with a competitor as a practical matter. I don’t know if Jake had an agent or experienced attorney review the contract before signing, but both in a contract is a hard pill to swallow.
ReplyDeleteI say this because the easiest settlement IMO is (1) 6 mo noncompete from day they quit; (2) confidentiality and speak nice of one another; (3) right of first refusal is waived; & (4) D&J can’t discuss or promote new gig for some period of time or until noncompete is over.
Elizabeth F. Griffin as the 4th member of the dream teams is interesting. Clark Hill is a very reputable national firm, and she has the most skins on the wall of the team. Not a partner, but a Senior Attorney so it would still be an expensive fee amount. This is likely not a pro-bono or discount like the others seem to have been so far. The boys will be paying out some real cash for her services
ReplyDeleteThat's cute, Run. Nothing of substance to say, throw in a trope. Nice try, turbo. But we'll see the last of you in less than 36 hours. Later, Gator.
ReplyDelete(You're projecting)
DeleteBaron! What's super weird is your obsession with everything I say. Have patience, Grasshopper.
ReplyDeleteSorry, Run. Didn't mean in the physical sense. Don't want to give off the wrong impression, pal. Only meant here at MTC. Well, at least not as Run. I'm just not sure what the fanboys will do once The Boys are no longer to do or say anything anything related.
ReplyDeleteAlright alright alright. My work is done here. Later, Skaters.
And please. And I mean this. Fanboys and gals, don't let it get you down. The Boys WILL be back in town. The time will pass in no time flat. What is it? Tempus fugit.
To quote a musical genius, "I know you'll miss me, I know you'll miss me." (my dude, Boy George)
Out.
"I say this because the easiest settlement IMO is (1) 6 mo noncompete from day they quit; (2) confidentiality and speak nice of one another; (3) right of first refusal is waived; & (4) D&J can’t discuss or promote new gig for some period of time or until noncompete is over."
ReplyDeleteThis is what I've been thinking for sometime now, as well.
Finally dug up a copy of Dan and Jake’s contracts. The right of first refusal language is largely the same.
DeleteFor those wondering why don’t they go sign with Freak or Fan and get paid to shut up for 6 months, they can’t as a practical matter.
I do note that Dan’s 2018 K has language about moving to a “more favorable time slot”-I’ve long suspected Dan was privately miffed at not going to afternoon drive with Bob. Make of that what you will.
Also, if I had to guess, the Cumulus lawyers were crappy at redacting the salary figures on purpose.
DeleteI don’t really have a rooting interest in this, I just don’t like how petty it all is.
this is the first time i have ever replied to you, your writing style is somehow quite noticeable and pretty terrible at getting things across at the same time.
ReplyDeletetake your terrible bit and fuck off.
Dude is rather creepy but effective. I've never seen someone who so obviously was trolling draw so many so far off the farm. Hope they make good on their promise because I've grown so very weary of all the trolls and those who continually feed them. At this point I could care less about the outcome of the litigation. I just want an ending so that the final analyses can ensue and then we can begin to move past all of this and get MTC back to being MTC. Now that I think about it, I'm not so sure if that will ever happen, regardless of the outcome. Oh well. All good things come to an end. MTC is no exception.
ReplyDeletePiecing together the various accounts, it seems to me that what the court did is less interesting than what the parties did, or are reported to have done:
ReplyDelete(1) Sounds like Cumulus came loaded for bear and not terribly afraid of a public record; and DAN wanted to keep "dirty laundry" safe from the public?
(2) Someone above called this an agreed order, which makes sense. If so, then the lads more-or-less agreed to the TRO on the restrictive covenant issues (with some not-very-difficult restrictions on Cumulus as well), which, even if the court had entered it, would only have lasted ten days. I do NOT necessarily call this a solid Cumulus victory, since the lads' agreement doesn't impact them for very long, but -- same as point #1 -- it looks like something the lads agreed to to avoid going forward with a public hearing today. Given the crusading tone their counsel is apparently still advancing (per the account by the correspondent who spoke to one of their lawyers after the hearing), this outcome seems just a little odd.
(3) I don't know Ms. Griffin. Titles vary from firm to firm, but in the larger firms I've toiled in, "Senior Attorney" is among titles given to lawyers considered talented and valuable to the firm who have been around for a while but who have not been made partner for one reason or another. Looks like she's been practicing for nine years, perhaps not all of them with that firm. She does not seem to have particular NLRA/NLRB experience; doesn't advertise it, anyway, although "Employment and Labor Law" is generically referenced in her list of areas of practice, alongside many others. Undoubtedly has some other lawyerly virtues current counsel think will benefit the defense.
Overall -- fairly slight advantage Cumulus, based on what seems like an ambiguity in the lads' enthusiasm for a hearing on the merits.
One more thing: Many variables go into the calculus of where these things end up. The parties and court palavered for quite some time, and a lot got said and agreed and phone calls to headquarters got made, all of which may have brought considerations to bear that make all of our guessing look silly.
So: Suggest that none of us be too certain about what happened, why, and what's next.
Plainsman,
ReplyDeleteCleanup on Aisles 6-9
@Plainsman: one other note: the parties DID make an announcement of who their witnesses would be today. Cumulus said Cat and Bennett. D&J said D&J and then maybe the Eatzi's CEO. Doesn't mean a whole lot now, because strategies could change drastically in a week, but I thought it was interesting that Cumulus did not have a witness in pocket to talk about the alleged advertiser poaching (unless it was just crossing Mr. Eatzi's) nor did they signal an intention to call Corby or Bob to discuss The Meeting.
ReplyDeleteOne other humorous observation: at one point when the judge was in chambers, a court staffer was testing the microphones for Zoom capabilities and asked D&J's attorney to play one of their audio clips (apparently knowing they had several), and the D&J attorney played one broadcast quite loudly in the courtroom of Corby saying "I hope they kick major ass in podcasting."
Rocky road. I enjoy the content on this site. I
ReplyDeleteI also enjoy
-digestible copy through the use of paragraphs and spacing
- words that were not frantically researched in a thesaurus
Kick rocks.
You keep proving my point, Zulu. Very sad.
ReplyDeleteJust to let you know, these comments are typed via phone using one finger. Care to guess why? As I said, you keep proving my point.
ReplyDeleteRocky. No. I do not know why you are typing on your phone with one finger. I am sorry that you are sad.
ReplyDeleteI still like the content on this site I typed that with two hands.
STOP
ReplyDeleteYes sir Pman.
ReplyDeletePman seems to have inadvertently stopped all discussion. He'll have to be more careful with that in the future
ReplyDeletepman, I think it is more than a slight advantage for Cumulus. They got something that they wanted, essentially a TRO. And as a bonus SD+J can't talk about the case in public. Yes, the bizarre part is that it was SD+J who didn't want to go ahead with the hearing. What does this say about their case?
ReplyDeleteThe only victory for SD+J is that they get to keep playing the role of martyr. Cumulus won't let them broadcast, won't let them podcast, won't let them talk to their fanbase about the case.
Can they abide by the order they agreed to? I ask this based on what we have seen from them since they announced they're leaving The Ticket.
My prediction: The lack of new SD+J content drives Surly back to MTC to resume his unique brand of trolling.
Was also looking for any kind of update. But if they reached an agreement during mediation, would that become public info right away?
ReplyDeleteThere is nothing on file that rescinds the court's order to mediate today, so I think we can safely assume the mediation occurred/is still occurring today. As to the outcome ... unless someone has an inside source, we probably will not know anything today.
ReplyDeleteI’ve attended mediations that have extended well into the late evening. Usually a good sign as progress is being made.
ReplyDeleteI’ve also attended full day mediations that are cut short due to one party being completely unreasonable. Highly doubt that happens here, as the Judge would be quite displeased at the stubborn party.
If I were a wagering man, I would bet something gets resolved today and we hear from Dan and Jake sooner rather than later (still behind a paywall for the foreseeable future).
Cumulus has quite a bit to lose if they take this to court and Dan and Jake win. Some armchair experts here give them a low chance of winning, but once things go to trial, any chance, even a low one, would scare Cumulus. A judgement would upend their business and threaten all current contracts with on air talent. And every attorney could read the judgement and know how to proceed when challenging Cumulus.
Or, they could settle. Keep everything behind closed doors. Take what they have learned, and instead of paying attorneys to take this case to trial, they can now pay attorneys to shore up their contract language, and spend some money on management training (don’t tell employees they can’t talk about wages).
This only works if Dan and Jake make a good faith effort and are willing to negotiate.
Who says no to the following?
For the next 6 months from today:
-No terrestrial radio
-No solicitation of advertisers
-No live broadcasts
-No discussion of the (former) suit
And
-NLRB charge dropped
In exchange:
Keep DumbZone name
Podcast allowed behind paywall
One free episode per week, dropped any time besides M-F 5:30A-7:00P
@ Javier
ReplyDeleteSeems reasonable ... therefore no way it happens. ;-)
It is routine that a mediation decision is often made up to a week later in some type of mediator's proposal. Unless there are major non-starters from either side, a mediator tries to decide a good middle point after spending the day with each party and sends them a proposal which consists of each side giving in more than they originally wanted to before the day started.
ReplyDeleteIf it wasn't close and Cumulus offered only non-starters, the mediator will send a letter usually within 24 hours to the Court that the mediation was unsuccessful and thank them for selecting them as mediator.
If the negotiations were close, we might not hear about it until next Monday before the PI hearing while the particulars of the agreement are ironed out. They will not be able to move the hearing again, so they will either settle or have the hearing. The longer we hear nothing, the better it would be for some type of settlement.
"Cumulus has quite a bit to lose if they take this to court and Dan and Jake win. Some armchair experts here give them a low chance of winning, but once things go to trial, any chance, even a low one, would scare Cumulus. A judgement would upend their business and threaten all current contracts with on air talent. And every attorney could read the judgement and know how to proceed when challenging Cumulus.
ReplyDeleteOr, they could settle. Keep everything behind closed doors. Take what they have learned, and instead of paying attorneys to take this case to trial, they can now pay attorneys to shore up their contract language, and spend some money on management training (don’t tell employees they can’t talk about wages)."
I'm not sure if this isn't the other way around. After all, it was DnJ's team (and Dan himself) who basically said let's not air our dirty laundry. Guess we'll find out soon enough. Also. Your proposed settlement would pretty much mean DnJ keep doing what they were doing since leaving TT and Cumulus goes along with it. Why would Cumulus have even filed suit in the first place? The whole thing gives me tired head. I do hope it's all resolved ASAP.
IF I were D+J one of the easiest concessions to make is giving up TDZ name. You need the name to get everyone to follow you to the new place. almost 5K people have done that already. If they change the name of the podcast to VAJ radio or some other bit, we will all know what it is and so will the near 5K subscribers. They were THZ for only a couple of years and that worked out. They can succeed easily with a different name like Dragon Den to use their Dragon Den Productions LLC they started
ReplyDelete@ Javier, it’s obvious D&J will want to resume casting immediately post some sort of settlement. If I’m Atlanta I only agree to that in exchange for a longer terrestrial non compete. 12 months. Take their plan B (or plan A like many commenters think) off the table and let them try to build their digital empire. It’s smart too, not knowing how the new shows’ ratings will go in the next few months. The Fan will get their typical Cowboys season bump soon. And as much as we all dunk on the Freak (deservedly so) they have theoretical ratings upside because they’re so damn low to begin with.
ReplyDeleteNew post up. Before you go there, do check out the last half-dozen comments or so here. Some solid stuff, esp re re mediations and settlements.
ReplyDelete