A home for those who love almost everything about The Ticket (1310 AM, 96.7 FM, Dallas-Fort Worth), and who would like to discuss -- respectfully and fondly -- their thoughts on how (and whether) to eliminate the "almost."
Sunday, October 30, 2022
As Craig "Junior" Miller Says, Let me Aksd You a Question
It is a certainty that some Ticket listeners will drift to The Freak.
But there's another sports station in town, the FAN, with a current daily lineup of:
Shan & RJ K&C Masterpiece Gbag Nation
(and, at night, The Get Right)
Now think about how The Ticket sounds, and how The FAN sounds.
Which does The Freak sound more like?
That's right, The FAN.
So doesn't it make sense for people who currently prefer the FAN sound to the Ticket sound -- i.e., who are already not listening to The Ticket so much -- to be the ones attracted to The Freak?
So from which station is The Freak most likely to poach listeners?
Ticket. The FAN attracts the more sports inclined listener. The listener who wants sports to be the clear focus of the station with a little guy talk thrown in. Pretty much what you get on most sports talk stations across the country. The Ticket sorta warped if you will the taste of the DFW male 18-54 demo. Most Ticket imitators of which at one time there were many have long since returned to sports first, guy talk a distant second added toss in cherry on top. The Freak is squarely aiming for The Ticket and that's where it'll get listeners. Why would a FAN Fan who prefers sports over guy talk go to a station that's even less sportsy than The Ticket?
For those who might know from the rating surveys, what is the median age of Ticket listeners? I'm sure the number of D1P1s is rather small now but the rest of the age breakdowns would be interesting. While Reddit is a bad example I would think the under-30 crowd would be most likely to switch. It would also be interesting to see how much of the Eagles old listeners hung around.
Jake also posted on Twitter this weekend his son was having some health issues and that he may or may not be on air much in the future and had cleared it with management.
I said this a few threads ago and will restate it.
The Freak will be short lived. Mike R will begin (if he's not already begun) a very very quiet, behind the scenes apology tour with his former workmates. Not for what he did, but the way in which he went about it and for things said and insinuated. When Corby yelped it was "unconscionable," he was not addressing what Mike did, but how he went about it. Namely that he was going on Ticket shows all the while negotiating The Freak in order to make himself more visible. More to the point he did that and then claimed he was mistreated and marginalized by The Ticket. Pure Speculation on My Part Disclaimer: I don't think Mike's been in his right mind (insert WOMM joke here) for quite some time now. I believe he's experineced a world record (public) midlife crisis of sorts and The Freak is the cold bucket of ice water, the slap to the face, the jolt of the shock collar that has knocked sense back into him. As 339 points out, if you read between the lines and follow the patterns, Mike always tips his hand in some way about which way his wind is blowing. He's tossed out the 1 year and done possibility a couple of times now. Listen to The DownBeat. Not always, but often it sounds like he's already checked out. Mostly through his silence. Specially when being praised or told how happy he looks. I believe Mike is waking up to some realities about the situation and how he got there. More so, how he allowed himself to get there. Again this is pure speculation meets armchair psychology on my part. While I might have an advance degree in pure speculation, I've never had so much a high school class in psychology so take what I say with a grain of salt. Still my gut's telling me I'm on to something. The other part of my original claim was that the rest of The Freak hosts might have a real difficult time finding a job in this media market after its shockingly soon crash. A lot of trash was talked. Things out and out said and other not so nice things insinuated. But at the end of it Mike's legacy will not be harmed in the long term. It might have some of the shine taken off for awhile, but not forever. I imagine he'll lay low except for Petty Theft shows. Then again he might decide to retire from the public eye and leave the PT days behind. I'm not the person who keeps making the Ed Wallace and Cat statement. But I was a listener to Ed's show, Wheels. His last show was yesterday. How he said "so long" was the way you do it. I hope the next time Mike says "so long" he takes a cue from Ed and not attempt to create a meme about himself. Mike Rhyner will always be my leader. From his KZEW days until he left The Ticket, my way was through him. I'll always think of him as that Mike, not Freak Mike.
My thinking is that The Ticket is not that much less sportsy than The Fan. Some, but not a lot. But it is very distinguished from The Fan in the way its hosts interact and the whole gestalt of the station. The Fan is much, much more conventional talk, and so, for the most part, is The Freak -- old fashioned, almost.
But if it's the quantum of sports that is the deciding factor here, then you're probably right. Thanks for posting.
627: One might think so, but I don't believe it's the case across the board. iHeart is losing millions, but its sales even for radio are healthy and increasing.
Does anyone know the status on that Rhynes doc...there was a screening some mths back, correct? I wonder if that sheds some light into the time from the Long Hallway Goodbye to the wheels spinning on his "Future Endeavors"...
I haven't switched the dial to Freak in a couple of weeks. Not purposeful - -in fact, it occasionally crosses my mind once a new Ticket segment starts..."oh i shoulda checked out what Rhynes and Sirois are talking abt during that commercial".
When i had prior - and I think its def been brought up - - the Downbeat was just rehashing Good Ol Ticket Times : Full Repeat Rhynes - The Dropped 3rd Strike - bringing up Dark Period - hell, bringing up HangZone's infatuation with Octopus' - - all it made me think was well, wish these guys were still on my fave station.
If the Freak creation brought us Tuesdays with Gordo on HZ & Rant Revivals- A++. Honestly, Ticket shoulda seen how these semi reg mixes work - Picks with Friends, Camp and Superbowl. Big fan of the Musers Cowboys Talk with TimmyC & a Host. Even Intentional Grounding with a Host for the 1st segment - -greatness.
More 7pm F-around shows. How bout Corbs or Bob give it a go...& Dan from the Den needs to happen. Bring your Producers on trips - Mino more on the mic is Gold. Tickets still where Ill be Keep my Ears Listening.
Gagree. I've given The Freak a month, like I did The FAN when it started out and a month for RaGE. I always go back to The Ticket. Yes it's got many issues. Yes Corby is mostly a douche canoe. Yes Norm really ought to retire or at least take an emeritus position and just do the drafts and selected Cowboys pre/posts and some pop on segments like Rhyner was prior to The Freak. Yes they get pretty one sided on the socio-political side of things. Yes it's no longer an all day, never want to miss a segment from any show station (for ya'll who weren't around from 94-2006/7, you missed something that will never happen again on radio). All that's true. But it's still better than anything out there. Including and far better than Rhyner's new baby. Look, I totally agree that Rhyner has the right to do what he wants and how he wants. I've got nothing against him doing this. Not a dang thing. But I'd be lying if I didn't say that I wish he hadn't. That I wish he wouldn't have done those silly retire/unretire videos. That I wish he would've rode off into the sunset and remained every bit the enigma he always was. But that's not what happened. Regardless, I still gave Rhyner 2.0 and The Freak the old college try, just as I did Greggo 2.0 and The FAN, and neither measured up to what they once had and what The Ticket, despite its numerous shortcomings, still is.
Up and in the car earlier than usual for a medical procedure. While wife is driving I’m punching thru the dial. The music stations are playing what’s expected. The ticket is doing turning points of the game. The fan is discussing the cowboys WR issues and if jerry should go get OBJ. And the freak is discussing Halloween costumes and the Halloween parties they were at this weekend. Although Kevin Turner did make a funny comment about internet commentators and their negativity. Maybe we’re negative because you’re product is not impressive? Plainsman may be right, they may be going for the coffee talk format. If so, why not hire experienced people with ratings track records, and not cast offs and spares?
I have not listened to the Fan since the Freak came on the air. I would switch over there during commercials or during a segment I didn't care for so I can't say I listened much to begin with. I just don't find any of the Fan host to be an enjoyable listen. Like many here I've given the Freak a solid listen and while I find it enjoyable in parts and I like the host better than those on the Fan and some on the Ticket it hasn't grabbed me enough to change my listening patterns. I switch to podcast after the Invasion. I split my drive home between The Downbeat and non Corby segments on the Hardline.
I hope for the best results for Jake and his family. I've had more personal interaction with Jake than any other host on the ticket and he's always been a great guy to me.
I meant to include that reading lists and coming up with ever more intricately ruled game show segments does not reflect a host's unique pov's or personality. Really it's just being lazy and uncreative. That's what ruffles my feathers a bit about The Freak. All this talk of creative freedom and for them it seems to mean reading lists compiled by others and databases and unimaginative game shows.
From another board, there was only one week of the new KEGL format in those numbers. The next book will give you what you seek. Also, as we have been beaten over the head with, the plus-six numbers don't mean much. You have to pay $$$ for the good breakdown.
My guess is when the next book comes out and after having been properly broken down, we're pretty much going to see a big nothing burger of a difference between The Eagle and The Freak. If anything, I'd bet the ad-dollar revenue was less.
This isn't going to end well, but at least it'll be a quick ending as opposed to some long drawn out, ever changing cast of characters in hopes of saving the thing. Feb. '23, flip. Bank on it. Soon after is when the backstories will start to come out pertaining to how it actually came about and how it went over with others, and that's when things will get real interesting.
KEGL's debut week were WAY down from the rest of the month (M25-54). Won't get any real information until there's a full month of numbers. with the limited amount and curious execution of whatever marketing they've done, converting listeners may take time.
That tells you a lot about the Mikes. Sad stuff, I must say.
I'm beginning to think senior citizen Mike isn't exactly who we thought he was, at least in some ways. Either that or some seriously screwy things went on behind the scenes with not just Cumulus/management but also Ticket hosts for him to take the stances he has since The Freak went live.
I've always, how shall I say this, thought there was more to middle aged Mike than meets the eye. I'll leave it at that and for you to read into what you will.
Claiming The Ticket isn't your main competition (I mean, how can anyone be since what you're doing has never been attempted beore, right?) and then taking at least one if not several pointed or oblique shots per day at it screams insecurity. It also screams you're getting a lot of pushback and blowback and it bothers you greatly. Why? Because you know deep down much of it's on the mark.
BTW, over at Ticket reddit there are no more Freak threads. Including the weekly mega thread, which garnered a whopping 33 comments last week. Not sure if that was a decision made by the page admins, little to no interest in 97.1, or a combo of the two. But it did go from a shit ton to nada in a month and change.
Jeff Cavanaugh was on the first few segments of TDB yesterday. He left to make room for Cash and Vida Sirois. They were on for 4 segments. That’s what they mean when they say they do what they want! That would never be allowed at the Ticket.
422: You're not entirely wrong, but we've always covered the competition. FAN, RaGE, and now The Freak. When The Freak defines itself by comparison with The Ticket -- you're gonna get a lot of Freak stuff here, and here's to it.
I loved Rhynes and Sirois on The Ticket and was sad when they left. But I think they overestimated themselves as individual personalities who can carry 4 hours of all-talk without sports as a backbone/crutch. I'm just not interested in these guys (or anyone really, even at The Ticket) to tune in daily to hear 4 hours of random topics that often sound like filler. The Ticket save those for the special one-off F-around shows and White Elephant Day, which allows us to build up the hype and enjoy them more.
With the Downbeat's constant rotation of other hosts, there is definitely some mystery 3rd host that they are waiting for...whether it's Danny Balis or whoever. And even as a big Danny fan myself, I don't think he could save them.
Now if they were to commit to being another sports station in this market as a TRUE Ticket clone then maybe they'd have a chance to knock off The Fan as #2. But with how they came out blazing with this "We talk about whatever we want" motto, it seems like they will stick to their guns.
Maybe this is the value of competition but while Bob & Corby talked either college football or their Narcos review (neither thing of interest to me really) I optioned to tune into Mike&Mike.
Because I'd earlier popped over during a break and immediately were exposed to food tasting of stuff with pumpkin flavor(?), I was annoyed when I came back and they were still talking about food - when suddenly Sirios asked - apologetically - if he could "talk something sportsy" - only to spend the next 10 minutes talking about the NASCAR story about the guy ramming his car into the wall. Rhyner & Julie (who continues to be an utter waste of air and comes across like one of those people on Good Morning Texas trying to pass off bought promotional time as something interesting) both tried SOOOO hard to sound interested and play along - and it dawned on me - all of this Downbeat stuff sounds like a holiday DryDock crew who have been glue'd together out of necessity.
If we want to compare and contrast qualities of executing ideas - Mike&Mike ate food on the air to compare pumpkin and it again felt like a GMA segment - also today, Jake and Gordo drank the former's wife's breast milk and made something kinda gross in premise - extremely funny and entertaining.
If Rhyner thought he was marginalized and suppressed on The Hardline with Danny and Corby alongside (a marginalization/suppression in which he fully participated by failing to take the reins on his own show and eschewing show prep and actual interest during the broadcast), I can't imagine how minimalized he'd feel if it became the Mikey and Danny show.
I give Danny a lot of credit for brains and ears. He won't jump in if he thinks anyone is looking to him to right a foundering ship.
Who’s just dying to listen to TDB plus Danny? Didn’t (royal) we spend most of the 2010s bemoaning Hardline 3.0? So let’s bring 2/3rds of it to a new rudderless format and that will be compelling talk radio?
I kinda get that same feeling about them waiting for someone or someones a la the calvary to arrive. Seems like there's a giant placeholder thing going on. Almost sense this 'just wait til what's in the works goes down, then The Ticket and everyone else will eat our dust and can go pound sand.' What's the calvary though? I agree it can't be Dan Balls. Don't get me wrong, I dig his stuff, but come on that's not going to make everything fall into place. There's that Richie Whitt predict. If true then that could be the calvary. Can't imagine that it is true. For the foreseeable future 1310 is a stable means of compared to most of us healthy income and benefits. Benefits that go beyond healthcare packages I might add. With 97.1 who knows. Dan has kids in college and Jake has an infant and a toddler. They need stability. I guess if iHeart offered them a guaranteed gargantuan contract they couldn't refuse they'd go. Why would iHeart do that? It makes zero sense. So I don't see it happening. But yeah, 832, I think the Mikes and whomever they convinced at iHeart (it was all them and not B&S who got this rolling) have greatly overestimated their cache. I've had no less than 12 people ask me if I knew who this guy on the billboard off the DNT that says "I'm back" is. Rhyner's a HoFer for sure but he's not Kid Kraddock and he sure as hell isn't Ron Chapman. The days of star radio DJs are long gone.
I'm thinking Danny was never and will never be a part of The Freak. The way in which Rhynes said "no" to the question of Danny's involvement during the D-Mag pod was rather telling. It was hard "no" to say the least. It almost sounded angry.
If he is, I'd think it would be this Friday or next Monday, because he's now been gone from The Ticket without being on a competitor station longer than Sirois was prior to signing on with The Freak. If you think they all began work for a competitor the day of going live, you're wrong.
Again, I'll just mention that with respect to Jake and Dan (1) they're under contract for a while yet, and (2) when that is over, they'll most likely have a covenant not to compete that will last for something on the order of six months beyond that.
Absent some extraordinary circumstance that my poor imagination is not imagining, neither Jake nor Dan nor the Hangzone package is likely to skip to The Freak for a period approximating the next year.
Since the Freak has been on the air, there has been 1) the mention of adding the Hangzone around January and 2) there's another host coming to the Downbeat.
Both of these ideas confuse me. I have never worked in radio, but why would a station that is just launching, come out with the shows and then in a few months change the shows or add more hosts if that was the plan from the beginning? Would there be a reason that the downbeat has to rush just to get on air? If the downbeat is going to be something that competes with the hardline, why not have the show complete before taking it on air? It just seems like a bad business idea to me. "Hey were opening a new restaurant. Right now we have half the menu, but in a few months, we'll have more of a menu, and in 6 months, we'll have the menu complete." Maybe there is reasoning behind it, I just don't understand.
Also, I think it would be sorry to be trying to get the HZ, and to only promise jobs for the original hosts for several months and then fire them.
HZ is not leaving the Ticket at least any time soon, due to hosts being under contract and having non-competes which leads to Danny. If Danny is the person they keep hinting at (and at this point I suspect it is), I've been told his noncompete ends sometime in November so to answer your question they didn't want to hold up the entire launch of the station just for that one guy.
Does The DownBeat keep hinting ata 3rd host? Can someone give a specific? I've beenlistening a few segments or more per day and heard nothing hinting at another piece of the puzzle.
The HZ rumor is from Richie Whitt and no where else. So disgruntled/disgraced/incompetent/failure of a talk show host says he’s heard they’re adding the Hang Zone. Let’s review quotes from his article about the freak “multiple sources…(market) will add a 3rd sports talk station”. “New stations ticketesque format- guy talk anchored by sports”, “DFW will again have 3 sports talk radio options”. How wrong is he on those? The Freak insists on saying they’re not sports. So who lied to Richie? So on to his 10/7 whitts end column. Now his sources have dropped to “that industry source”. What happened to SOURCES? Then RW is told “DB will join freak once his non compete expires”. But Danny was pretty clear on his exit that money was an issue, but with kid at home there’s quality of life issues involved.,so he trades Ticket for freak, for same daypart? Add Mikes emphatic No and DB just seems unlikely. Whitt continues-“HZ hosts Jake/Dan are seriously considering bolting for the freak in early 2023”. As plainsman has said, they’re under contract and if Danny et al have non competes, damn sure HZ does. So even if they could leave in Q1 of ‘23, it’s probably late summer or fall before they can be on air. If early ratings are bad, does the HZ really depart for a failed bit?
Other than the Plainsman's often too genteel and charitable view of RW, you'll be hard pressed to find a RW fan here. We're all aware of his colorfu and at times seemingly shady past and present. But you're partially nitpicking on this one. Partially in that RW broke the story on The Freak, was pretty much correct on all points --including Rhyner's involvement, which many here and elsewhere laughed at--, and if you've even listened to 3 minutes of The Freak, across the day, you will hear exactly what RW described...regardless of how they pitch themselves. Time will soon enough tell if his second source is correct. I agree THZ leaving seems not only far-fetched, but also (for now) a legal impossibility. I too agree with your thoughts on Danny. As well, unless something radically changed since his departure, Danny and Corby are extremely close friends (off-air, as in weekly communication). I have heard from several people who run in those circles that Danny holds Corby in much higher esteem than he does Rhyner. So there's that.
Let me beat the one clever commenter to the punch: Hi Richie Whitt.
Let me reply to that clever commenter: ^^^^Awful bit.
If he’s getting info directly from Mike or Mike, how do you think he got the “3rd sports station “ line so wrong? I agree with the nitpicking because it is “ticketesque guy talk”, so he got that part right. But why have Richie prime the pump with “3rd sports station” only to be wrong? Unless they wanted the publicity of being a new competitor, but really knew they were going to go for a different format lane, “hot talk”. Leaking to Richie gets it in SI, starts the buzz outside of industry circles, etc , and who cares if he’s exposed as wrong, it’s incompetent failed host Richie Whitt.
@239, a lie of omission on the part of the Mikes to drive what you talk about in the latter part of your post. Emphasize Ticket exes, Cavanuagh, Mavs flagship, but also “we’ll say what we want”. RW assumes Ticket clone without being told that.
It seems that Donovan Lewis has remained above the fray regarding rumors that he'll jump ship to the Freak. Donny seems more and more 'put out' to be working with Norm every day. He's in a crappy time slot, and will remain in a crappy time slot, even if he's given the top spot on the Ticket 10-12 when Norm steps down. Donny is great at what he does, is universally respected, works hard, and is always prepared. Why wouldn't the FREAK target The Great Donavan? He has a big following, and not just in the community. Donovan has universal appeal, for sports and guy/hot talk. I believe his talent is being wasted with Norm on mid-days.
Also, please note: I would FOR SURE tune in to hear Mike Rhyner and (a sober) Greg Williams together again. Perhaps that's just a pipe dream (that bridge was burned all the way down). Mike was at his best with Greggo in the 1st officer's seat. MR had no contemporaries when Hammer left him with Corby and Danny, and that was a problem. He has no contemporaries now, and it's the SOS.
My lukewarm opinion: when Norm mercifully gives it up, hopefully in 1-2 years, DJ R should be next man up. He meshes admirably with both morning shows, thought he was a great secondary voice when he did tickers with THZ, he’s got a good sense of humor, local kid. #teamDJ
2 minutes in to Greggo's Mom Game appearance and it was patently obvious he suffers from many things mental and physical. There's no way anyone would hire him, period. I guess if Rhynes demanded his hiring and vouched for him it might happen. Barring that, if even that, no bleepin' way. Funny/sad thing is, neither Rhynes nor Greggo are very good without the other. Greggo was terrible (demons or not) on ESPN, The FAN, and in his own short lived pod and the even shorter lived pod he did with some friend. He was objectively awful (when he decided to actually show up). Can you really say Rhyner's been all that good since Greggo's departure? I say "no, he hasn't." In fact, I'll go as far to say he's been pretty piss poor. From his post Greggo days that began with the edict, "we owe you (P1) nothing" followed by 13 years of absolutely mailing it to the blink of an eye stint at The Athletic to his several start up, fart and fall down attempts at pods on Vokal, to (now) The Freak where from the moment his well delivered but scripted day one opening monologue ended, he picked up right were he left off at The Ticket/The Athletic/Vokal. That is mostly mute, with little to actually say when he does open his mouth (which is usually some named segment dedicated to *i.e., forcing* him to get involved.
Those two, for whatever reason, were THE match for each other. They brought out the best in one another. Greggo stroked Rhynes' ego but also had his own strong opinions that Rhyner respected. Conversely, Rhyner kept Greggo (mostly) from straying too far off the farm. While they're about a decade apart in age, they shared enough common pop/sports culture knowledge and experience to have genuine conversations. Nothing was ever forced, it always came off as organic. Watching Rangers games and yukking it up in the pressbox for a few years prior to The Ticket helps with that tremendously. Whatever the reasons it worked, it just did. Neither has been the same (on-air wise) since they parted ways.
I'd love to hop in a time machine and relive those Ticket Halcyon Days. But that's impossible. What's more, if they did try to put the band back together I guarantee it would be a disaster. Both men lost their hosting fastball nearly 15 years ago now. It was lightening in a bottle. Both as a pairing and as individuals.
Monty, Mino, and DJ are The Ticket future. Mino was great on THZ today. Monty's always cooking with fire. DJ definitely has the goods. All of them 'get' what The Ticket's about. The Ticket is about sports with a local slant with a nice dose of 'guy talk'. There's one Gordo. That's more than enough. Bits are fun when they come in bite sized packages. With the likes M, M, and DJ, and Jake being the future face of the station, The Ticket's in good hands. The FAN? CBS money, honey, keeps it afloat. It'll be around for as long as CBS decides, ratings or not. The Freak? Soon to be a footnote in DFW radio history. Mike R's involvement seen akin to Jordan's baseball and Wizards days: "WTF was that about? Dunno. Guess he just wanted to do it. OK, it's his deal. Still, he's the GOAT."
@927, agree with all you say above. Especially about today’s HZ. But Dan can really lift any fill in host’s game. Matt flipping McLaren and Dan were great together.
I guess for me, when The Ticket first went on the air in 1994, I was so excited because we were getting our first all sports station. I had no idea about bits and fake characters and made up characters, and I certainly hadn't heard of an entire language that we early listeners would come to know as Ticket-speak (Ticketionary: whip, ___ of the highest order, squid, head right with ___, hazed, grayed, and underway, etc." Sports talk was what got me pumped up. All the rest was just a never ending stream of the tastiest gravy ever on top.
It's my belief that when it really comes down to it, most Ticket listeners are sports fans and that's what they want to hear. Not in the Mike and The Mad Dog or what you hear on a national feed sort of way. In a way that focuses on the hometown teams in relation to the rest of their respective leagues and has enough "I can relate to this guy" everyday talk interspersed with some regular/entertainment/popculture news of the moment. But sports is the first and foremost thing considered.
This is what The Ticket does so well. We don't want 13 hours straight of what's basically Good Morning ___ or The View. This is essentially what The Freak is wanting to be or claiming it wants to be. It's a terrible premise for a radio station. You end up with 12-13 hours of people talking about what interests themselves. It's one big j off session. If you have something to center your attention on, then you will attract listeners who also share that interest. Yes you can deviate from it just as The Ticket does, but when you do it comes off as refreshing. Variety is no longer the spice of life once all that exists is variety.V Variety at that point is essentially no longer. The Freak's already there. I suggest you visit their reddit page. It's an odd bird. Not a lot of action, but what's there is interesting. Much criticism from listeners and many replies and even requests for suggestions from Jeff Cavanaugh and KT. Some of the retorts also make me suspect Sirois and other hosts are participating, as well.
The Freak is freaky. But not in a cool way. In a headscratching way.
Maybe it'll go over like gangbusters. Regardless, I won't be listening. I like sports. Not Good Morning Texas.
I have a question for the group, this group of confessors seems more coherent than most groups one might read.
I am right there with everyone, "Rhyner made the Ticket", I think he is great. Did HE make The Ticket? He got it off the ground, sold the idea, brought a team together and it worked. And THL was a great show. I got here in '99 and loved it. I would argue, the Musers are to be credited just as much after the thing set sail. And, even though it came later and was not my favorite, I think BAD was a huge player.
I just question if we give too much credit to one, when Bruce, Cat, Dan B, etc may need a little credit also.
I can't imagine Greg Williams returning to team with Rhyner. Two reasons:
(1) Whatever you think of Richie Whitt, go back and read his account of his time with Greggo at RaGE. It's pretty much the same experience Rhyner and Corby had with him on The Hardline. It is inconceivable to me that Rhyner would put himself through that again until (if ever) it becomes clear that The Freak is not going to set Dallas radio on fire as promised.
(2) iHeart knows that the world has changed since Greggo was last on the air. Tolerance for casual redneck misogyny and other unwoke attitudes is zero -- if not among listeners, then among advertisers. Things that were just naughty ten years ago are absolutely verboten today. Rhyner was low-risk/low-reward, but HeeHoo is high-risk/no-reward.
I think you are dead right on these thoughts. But the Freak really would catch fire if Greggo became a co-host with Ryhner. All of this is performance art. If Rhyner craves an audience AND financial gain, roll the dice on Greggo. And if/when he is too hot for radio, migrate the show to podcast. Does anyone remember Williams’ insane claims? YOU BET YOU DO! THAT is what is missing. Maybe on the Ticket…certainly on the Freak. A firebrand. I say do it. Go supernova.
Not just Rhyner, Surly, but in the biz, period. Every bridge that could've possibly burned, he absolutley incinerated. In his professional, pirivate, and public-online lives.
Scott: You make a great point about the PDs. The Ticket has had the benefit of REALLY good program directors. To hear the love and respect the Old School Ticket personalities have for Bruce Gilbert and the Laddy, it's very clear they were a big part of what made that early ticket vibe so successful. Cat picked up where those early PDs left off, and he is a big part of The Ticket's success back then and today.
Starting to see some of the awful Norm ageism and baseless "holding him back" chatter on Twitter and reddit directed at Mike Rhyner. I'll never understand this modus cogitans. No, this isn't aimed at a host, only the dingleberries who think this way. That's why for the most part MTC is a rather special, singular place. Sure we have our trolls every now and again and some downright bizarro world back and forths. But on the whole we're a fairly measured bunch with solid to at times pretty damn insightful if not out and out prescient thoughts. Even when we disagree, it rarely gets out of hand. And when it does cooler heads step in to assuage the negativity and eventually Plainsman deletes the b.s. and reminds us of the MTC Code of Conduct. A rather nice thing, this MTC, I'd say. As regards Twitter and reddit, alas, the same cannot always be said.
Thank you, 653, for your kind comments; quite unexpected.
I try to keep things civil without being overly persnickety, and for some reason people are more comfortable with long-form comments here than they are on Reddit/Twitter. I'm wondering if that's because we probably do have a little older demo here who work on laptops and desktops in greater numbers than the phone-exclusive folks.
Do I understand the last few comments to say that there's no new content today on The Freak? I tuned in to The Speakeasy this morning and couldn't tell -- it was a Harry Potter discussion.
Would love to see a Monty/Donnie pairing, moving Norm to emeritus status.
My guess is there will be no drydock for The Freak. At least not this year. It's so crazy that they say they're not a sports station yet go to a national sports feed when not live.
I listened to a segment on B&S late last week that pertained to bet payoffs. The one under LENGTHY discussion entailed Krystina having a calendar year to punch the loser in the face at a time of her choosing, and that would occur without any warning. Yeah, uh, captivating stuff. Really funny stuff. Sure.
I've yet to be able to listen to more than one segment at a time for any Freak offering. Don't get me wrong, I've tried. The descriptors "poorly constructed, apparently not a lot of thought went into it, too hastily brought to bear" keep coming to mind each time I tune in. If anyone here was around for the Live 105.3 days, The Freak is pretty much the same thing. Live 105 was lifestyle talk that also touched the sports page (B&S, Ron and Don). Like The Freak, they too sold themselves as radio, free speech rebels. And like Live 105, I fear The Freak won't enjoy a long lifespan.
Why Rhyner got himself involved with this, I'll never understand. Then again, the persona he inhabited/put on display from '96 - '07 and the one since '07 are, to use his pre-'07 parlance, a dichotomy of the highest order. I do have a theory about it and the genesis and engine of it all, but it's pure speculation so I won't. Ah, just to head it off at the pass. Of course Rhyner has to right do it. Absolutely. But that doesn't mean it makes good sense. Especially when you factor in the haphazard construction and presentation.
My working theory is that Rhyner is pissed that the station has succeeded without him. I know people rag on the “new hardline” but Sturm and Davidson have managed to keep the ratings where they were. Saw elsewhere that Ticket was top 10 12plus, so ratings don’t appear to be suffering. What was suffering was Mikes fragile ego. He saw His exit and the station win another Marconi. He saw his exit and the station suffer zero in ratings for it. Watch the documentary, mikes always had a nemesis, and decided in retirement that Cumulus was his new one. I’m sure he had fun filling in for Skin when he was sick. But B&S offer a gig and give him a chance to get back at the company that did him wrong? (See footnote 1)? Mike and his ego couldn’t resist it. Ben and skin have never done well anywhere they’ve been. Iheart management probably started clamping down on them to perform. And their response- stations a hodgepodge of music, us, Russ leftovers and more music. Let us remake live 105 and look at all the money you’ll make. And iheart bought it, if Rhyner was part. Look at how much of the early marketing has centered on Mike. They’re stroking his ego. And frankly it’s all they have. A senior who by all accounts was checked out for the last decade of his radio career, who walked away with no notice from his last job. (See note 2)
Fn1- I think Mike thinks Cumulus did him wrong by doing things like asking him to talk cowboys during cowboys season, and interviewing the head coach of the team that you’re the flagship station for. The nerve of a program director to try to do things to increase ratings or revenue! Fn2- dude at sports station in Philly announced retirement like a year in advance. Gave station a year to put plan in place to replace him. Mike left in December knowing he wouldn’t come back. That’s the sign of a guy who doesn’t care about his station, or his co workers, only about himself. Again this is about mikes fragile ego.
It’s late stage Boomer brain to a T. The fragile ego, the contrived grievances, the 110% total selfishness, look at me I’M BACK nonsense. Gag me with a spoon.
No one should be surprised by Mike's involvement. You do know that in 2009 he was in negotiations to leave The Ticket for The FAN. Yes, The Godfather, the progenitor of "Bunker Mentality" came a c-hair away from migrating over to the competition, to compete against The Ticket and in short order would've been reunited with Greggo (at least they'd be coworkers). This isn't to say anything negative about Mike. It's only to serve as a reminder that at least 11 years prior to his leaving, Mike's loyalties towards The Ticket and everything-everyone associated with it had all but dissolved. If I was a Freak host or a part of Freak management, I'd keep that history in mind. Humans are creatures of patterns. In other words, Mike might've been opened the door for them, but if they think their way is through Mike, they very well could be in for a surprise.
A man once said that the pinnacle of success Was when you finally lost interest In money, compliments, publicity
Many years later, another man will say all that again But not for the sake of inspiring men But rather 'cause he's got nine songs and knows he needs at least ten Before he can go back to town and turn them all in
Todd Snider - "Money, Compliments, Publicity(Song Number Ten)
So uh what's going on with Ticket Saturdays? We have a new show dedicated to the Stars and one dedicated to The Mavs. The latter was still going on at 7:30 pm. I hope this is the new way (used to be the way back in the day). If so, good on ya, CMotA. And if this is due to The Freak's existence, then there's the one positive thing thus far about that knotted ball of frayed twine.
Maybe. But it wasn't Bruce and Owen snd it wasn't called a pregame dhiw. Something like Stars Edge. After yhe reg postgame show, a Mavs program, again, not affiliated with the regular hosts begsn. Monty even called in and gave his perspective on Kidd.
I think Mino is an emerging future star on the Ticket. He has a very good sense of humor and quick wit about him. Good solid sports takes combined with pop culture sensibilities that the station needs as the main stars age out over the next decade. I think he would be foolish to move as he will likely matriculate out of the produce chair to the host chair in next few years. Jake/Mino & Donny would make a great mid day show. Dan could be teamed with Corby and Davy when Bob leaves for a national gig in the next year or so.
It could have been Saad Yousuf, who is the Stars beat writer for the Athletic and part time producer on the Ticket. If it's an actual Stars show that seems like a good idea since it's hockey season and the Ticket carries the Stars games.
I thought it was super cool that both shows were on. Used to love Ticket Sports Saturday and Sunday with Stu Seder, Ty, SeaBass, and whoever else they'd get. Hoping they get back to that sort of stuff on a permanent basis. I'm a sports first, guy talk second listener. Although we're not the vocal segment of the listening population, I guarantee we're by far and away the largest. I love bits. I love Gordo and I was a Rant P1. There are bits o plenty throughout the day on each show. But I want my local and when needs be national sports talk. The FAN sucks at it. Other than when Cowlishaw was on the now defunct ESPN, it sucked too. Couldn't listen to Cowlishaw because of his loudmouth partner, Steve Dennis. I dig the sports takes we get on The Ticket. I dig the bits. More so because they're the dessert and not the main course. So as far as I'm concerned, sports sports sports with some choice bits thrown in so things don't get boring. As far as The Freak goes, I couldn't give two shits about it. I used to think Rhyner was the tits. As the fake Rick James said, "the milk's gone sour." Rhyner talked a lot of smack and slotted a lot of people over the years and did it on-air. Now he does and says many if not much of those very same things he once crapped on. Never understood the Sirois and Julie mania. Mike seems like a fun guy but what's he going to talk about on a daily basis to keep anyone's interest past a couple of months, if that? So because Julie's female we're all supposed to think her farts smell like a lavender diffuser? How insulting is that to women. She seems like a nice person who is good at reading Tickers. No small beer in that. A host? Not right now at any rate. Maybe sometime down the road. Ditto Mike. I love The Ticket.
The Stars program is called Stars Edge and the Mavs one is, I think, Mavs Beat. Weekly 30 min podcast and shows on the state of the teams. All JV host. I don't think Saad is on the Stars one but I don't remember any of the host other then Ryan Median being involved in the Stars show. They run Stars' Edge before the pregame show on a weekend Stars game.
Caught a few minutes if the speakeasy this morning. Couple of things made my ears perk up. #1One of the Mikes has Covid, cavanaugh said something about too brain dead to help fill in, so they just ran a “best of” Friday afternoon. No explanation of why other Mike (Rhyner, I think) couldn’t or wouldn’t do solo show. If it was Rhyner, what does that say about his commitment to the station and/or his ability to carry a show. Sad that a major market station is so thin/weak that they can’t find a fill in host for fricking PM drive. Pathetic. #2- Cavanaugh said something about sorry couldn’t fill in on Friday, especially because ‘corporate people” were in town. For all of their “we talk about what we want”, their positioning of themselves as renegades and outlaws in constrained by corporate radio. Go back and read the Ben and Skin interview from the launch. Select quotes: “a squad..have the creative freedom to do what they want, when they want”. “So often it’s an uncomfortable mandate from the corporate machine”. “This is all about creative freedom”. There’s a certain cognitive dissonance in all this creative freedom AND having corporate suits in town is there not? I’ve heard the early ratings signs are not good. Maybe corporate has decided that’s a 50k watt blow torch of a signal, capable of billing millions as a music station. Maybe we shouldn’t piss that away by giving the keys to Ben and skin, 2 guys so “meh” they’ve burned through 5 stations in 14 years.
I have never heard Norm NOT call the Washington team "the Commandoes." Is he doing a bit every time, or does he not know their correct name?
Of course, George "the Commander" Dunham has called Norm "Hitchges" forever, and it's clear he doesn't know how to pronounced Norm's name -- not a bit.
Format change incoming. Rhynes is aware and has already begun his spin/revisionist history campaign via Twitter. Don't believe me? Go scroll through it yourself.
400, I checked out recent Rhyner Twitter. Thought I was seeing everything, but didn't see any hints along the lines you suggest. Maybe I don't have the blue checkmark Twitter. Can you (or anyone) unpack this for us?
He's dropped what could be construed as trollish Tweets akin to, "could be a year and out, could be longer" and things along those lines. There's also the super thin-skinned Tweets and the "bring it on" tough guy Tweets. All of which points toward uncertainty, insecurity. He knows the thing's on thin ice. Because it is. Anything thrown together as sloppily and as reportedly quick (by those for whom it's in their best interest to say it was done that speedily) as The Freak, there is very little wiggle room for finding firm footing. It's throwaway stuff. And things put together in that manner are treated as such. Rhyner knows. It shows.
He's also Tweeted out a couple of "I'm here to shepherd the thing" claims, too. Which is far different than what he said in the interviews leading up to and directly after launch.
I find Rhyner on twitter annoying...even prior to any freak news. The other day he tweeted "that's one of the coolest things i've ever seen at a game of any kind, any sport." And someone replied "can you learn hashtags so we don't have to guess?" And Rhyner replied "Nope...gotta follow along." When it wasn't like he was even tweeting about the topic prior to that tweet.
Not much else to say, Pman. It kinna blows chunks, as in it's a non starter, if ya know what we mean. It's the same dealio on reddit/Ticket. The reddit/Freak page is about as lively as the reddit/FAN page, which is to say if a bear shits in the woods...
I think the only thing left, if it's really anything at all or even worth/is in good taste to comment on is if the former Ticket heroes are actually cut out for their new gigs, and if opinions of said heroes' on-air fortes have changed or not. This includes Mike R. To keep it classy like, I'll say and leave it as follows:
Julie and Mike S were in their best suited roles while at The Ticket.
Mike R, for a handful of years, was an utterly compelling on-air talent.
Infer what you may from the rather explicit implications found within the above declarations.
It has. But Freak buzz has died off considerably after an initial deluge. Now it's mostly the same people restating their positions. Speaking of which, I'll restate my position that The Freak is not long for the airwaves saying that I'm now convinced it will not make it past the Feb. '23 book, max. Yes, it's that bad. All of them. The Godfather included; perhaps first and foremost.
New angle I have been contemplating. Did Gordon start his Tuesday THZ appearances about the time The Freak went live? Seems to me there has been more cross pollination lately, I wonder if that is driven by 97.1. I get Picks with Friends and Pigskin Panel, but it feels like it has been more frequent lately.
I also wonder where these listener calls are we are waiting for? It appears to me they may be doing some, not much. I think that fan interaction is better done with email, or social media, which they already do some of. I really hope it doesn't go caller driven.
For The Freak, I have not given it a listen in 3 weeks, with exception of a Mavs game or two.
If you listen closely, clearly the Ticket thinks that listeners like roundtables, the mixes, guys night out, ticket-stock, summerbash, etc. in other words any time hosts are mixing with others. So in my mind do you know what Gordon showing up on the HZ is? A program director telling them what to do. The Fresk talks about what they want. The Ticket has a guy who has won multiple Marconis programming a response. I’d say that the Freak is bringing a knife to a gunfight, but realistically, with the talent and track records of who they’ve hired,(with the exception of MR) it’s more like the Freak is bringing a dull set of silverware to the gunfight. If you think that’s unfair, let’s review.
Your morning show, arguably your most important shift since listeners tend to inertia, consists of three people, none of which have any kind of solo ratings success. All have been on other shows, but none have ever had to draw an audience on the basis of THEIR talent. And you’re putting these inexperienced broadcasters up against a show with not just Marconi nominations, but also a Marconi win. That’s your dull spoon.
Your midday show is a holdover from your previous failure of a radio station. Side note if the Eagle wasn’t a failure, why flip formats? Ipso facto, failure. B&S have failed at 5 stations, never doing well enough to earn a long term contract. There’s your dull fork.
And finally the dull knife, the recycling of a bitter retired host from your main competitor. Rhyner is clearly the knife, and 10 or 20 years ago the knife was sharp enough to do damage. Now? No one on social media thinks Mike is on top of his game, and have you heard ANYTHING in the last 6 weeks to convince you otherwise? To top it off, to show how dull the knife is, I’m told Mike quit the show early at least one day last week, and just didn’t to do the show on Friday when Sirois was out sick. That’s not a razor edge looking to cut a competitors throat. That’s the rubber bladed knife they give you in self defense class so you can pretend you’re dangerous as you get your ass kicked. As for Sirois? Another guy who has zero track record of getting ratings on his own. Doesn’t seem like a bad guy, but he’s no Greg Williams on the personality front. And certainly not enough experienced or interesting enough to sharpen the dull blade that is Mike Rhyner.
It’s a dull set of silverware. And if early hints of the ratings are true, clearly no one is interested in their offerings.
Holy . . . . Someone in radio just called to my attention that The Freak doesn't start its local programming day with The Speakeasy until 7 AM! Y'all probably knew this already, but it came as a shock to me.
That's incredible. iHeart would rather run its overnight syndicated Cole Thompson show into the hours where people are tuning in to morning drive rather than get its revolutionary, kicky, renegade-led, subversive, and say-anything local Speakeasy product up and running.
Actually, they start re-running the Big 4, which I guess is highlights (if you call them that) of the day before. This starts sometime before 7 a.m. I know this because I somewhat liked listening to Cole Thompson during Muser commercial breaks and got irritated when Freak switched away from him.
At least with the Ticket top 10, you know you’re getting either interviews, or good segments, or funny bits that are all sports related. With the big 4 we’re invited to listen to a scintillating discussion of the difference between hash browns and home fries. And a crew survey to decide if scalloped or au gratin is their preferred potato side. (Note, not a real topic, but give them time, or the chance to read this, and we’ll have it soon) This format is the Ben and Skin show wrote large. But there’s a reason they’re show rank was in the 20’s. They don’t have the talent or personalities to be interesting enough to hold together a show about nothing.
It's what I've been saying all along, Plainsman. A hastily put together of a nothing burger centered around a 70-something who's "back, bitches" and who also happened to have stopped working in earnest -content-wise at least- sometime back in '07-'08. From the assembled talent to the speed of which it supposedely was conceived, pitched, and put on-air, the entire endeavor was set up to fail. It's a throwaway. If Rhyner finds that Ticket magic, fantastic, iHeart just got a cash cow for zero investement of either time or money (the or-air talent, sans Rhyner, do not command large salaries); if not, fine, flip formats again and no big whup. No big whup because, again, there's little to no investment or overhead. As to how it all came about......well, that's another story, and one that's far more interesting than its outcome. That story will emerge. Especially once The Freak goes the way of the Dodo, which is coming sooner rather than later. From what I've heard (and mind you this is not from direct sources, but from those who are in some ways connected to direct sources, so take it with a grain of salt), personality conflicts have already begun to percolate. Again, don't take that as gospel.
Rhyner himself said he may only stick around for a year or 2. What indication is there that anyone at the Freak, sans possibly Rhyner, has anything resembling a long term contract? And the Fan has the Cowboys, which at least drives some audience and weekly ratings.
when they announced, and then actually bragged about, their major market morning show wasn't starting until 7am - I knew this was not a serious effort. setting aside the lack of experience of each of the show's hosts, and the fact none of them have worked together, or in the form of a morning show - starting at 7am is mailing it in.
Or serious cost cutting. For ease of math let’s use an average of 75k per employee. (Average —clearly Rhyner will make more, Cather, Grubes less). Am drive - 300k w Julie, Jeff, KT and Cather. Mid- 225k w Ben skin and Christina. Pm drive- 225k with 3 miles. Add another show and you’re now in the neighborhood of a million dollars on an unproven format. They’re doing it on the cheap until something is proven. My prediction- if the November ratings are good, they look at a 4th show. If they are not good, look for major corporate influence to try to “fix” everything from their clocks, to the formatics, to their imaging, to their topic selection. All of which right now I would rate as poor.
^^^^^^THIS. B I N G O. Been saying it from the launch. Reeks of "whatevs" of "oh what the hell" of placeholder unless something magical happens.
Always be leery of anyone or anything (e.g., a business/group/etc) that keeps trying to convince everyone around them (and themselves) of something. Be leery.
But 937, maybe I don't understand your point about associating cost-cutting with a 7 AM start, but: Why pay those sums (which strike me as high for the non-stars, which is all of them except Rhyner) and then cripple their chances for success by starting the broadcast day way late, as sports-talk radio goes?
Maybe they have some kind of contract with the syndication entity for Cole Thompson which forbids cutting into his show early for local broadcasting.
Maybe they don't know what they want to say until later in the day.
I have a hot Freak opinion of which I want to unburden myself, but in fairness to said Freak I need to hear more of The Downbeat before I so unburden. But I'm having a hard time listening to it in preference to The Hardline. Stay tuned.
The prime advertising window is 6a-7p. It’s why stations start at 530a, so the show is already on by 6a, and people up and using media are more likely to have tuned in. In other words, if your p2 is (music station) you may be on it until your preferred show starts. So if you have 3 shows and 13 hours to fill, what do you do? Odd to have shows end on a half hour like 6-1030, 1030-3, 3-7. Or you kiss off the first hour and divide 12 by 3. The other option is a 4th show and another 200-300k in expenses. They could go even cheaper with syndication, but everybody else is friends with Ben and Skin. Unless Syndy Cation (hi guys!) is some chick they’ve worked with before, there doesn’t appear to be any interest in having proven, successful radio shows on the air at the expense of giving their producer his own show. And your comment about Cole Thompson makes no sense (no offense!). He wasn’t on pre-freak, so any syndication deal would be new, right? So they signed a deal that deliberately hamstrings them competitively? If so, then PD deserved to get fired. Anything is possible, but the simplest explanation seems to be cheap. Bringing in talent from outside the market costs money. They went with who they knew, who was available, etc.
And Plainsman, that 75k figure was meant to be an average. But Ben and Skin own a brewery, you don’t do that making 30k a year. If you have some folks at 40-50-60, and Mike, Mike, B&S making maybe 100k, 75 seemed like a good average. Point being, their programming payroll is already at maybe 750k. Where the Eagle had jocks who didn’t even live here voicetracking dayparts on the cheap. This is costing iheart a lot of money.
None of this means crapola. Freak is dunzo come Jan 2, my prefict. Well before that in reality, but as far as no longer being broadcast, Jan 2. Behind the scenes in-fighting and factions already present. Not my predict, but what's actually going as in guys it's going on right now going on.
Pet peeve. Has anyone noticed how annoyingly Bob (and I like him a lot) pronounces the letter a when saying "a" this or "a" that when he is trying to give the subject extra emphasis. Example: I would be happy with "ah" win. Instead of saying uh he says ah like the sound you make when the doctor sticks a tongue depressor in your mouth. Bob: I would be happy if Dak wins "ah" ring. The bad thing is it has rubbed off on others at the Ticket now. I heard Corby do that the other day.
@ 1018, See: Alf/Elf, famously replayed on BaD/HZ opens. Those upper Midwest tonals and vocabs don’t go away. My sainted mother is a 40+ year Texan transplant. Coke is still pop. It will always be pop.
Turned on the Ticket midday today to hear the always excellent Cowboys pregame show hosted by SeaBass and David Newberry but no... The Motha F'n Stars game was on instead. I know it is probably a money maker for the station but nothing in the weekly lineup is a bigger buzzkill than the ill placed Stars game.
I think all the supposed inside info and predictions of an early or otherwise demise of The Freak are absolutely bullshit in the former and utterly wrong in the latter.
Let me begin by pre-saying that I am a P1. Moreover, I like neither what I've heard coming from The Freak thus far and nor do I think The Freak talent pool (including Rhyner, Dobbs, and Sirois) is very good. Having pre-said all of that, allow me to make a Rhyneresque (I should say a long ago back when he actually had something Rhyneresque) statement concerning The Freak:
Not only will The Freak succeed, but also it will become the dominant talker in the area, far exceeding the scope of Ticket listenership by virtue of gathering in a considerable female, Latin, and those once drawn to Russ Martin and Stern audience. The reach of the format will render any talk of competition with The Ticket moot. The stations, eventually, will have nothing in common but some employment history crossover. This will not be immediate and will take some time. But by the end of 2023, The Freak's numbers (and ad rev) will have markedly increased. And by the end of 2024-mid 2025, it will have effectively left The Ticket in the dust. As a result, The Ticket will fully embrace its identity of being a sports station WITH (not AND) guy talk, and will go in an even sportsier direction moving forward as regards new hires--i.e., replacing hosts who retire/any new weekend shows/producer-3rd host roles/etc.
There are far far more people covering many demos out there than those who listen to sports/guy - guy/sports. Those potential listeners are the countless who tuned/tune into Kidd Kraddock & Co, Russ Martin (at its height), Howard Stern, DeDe in the Morning, etc. etc. etc. They enjoy lifestyle talk. They don't care about sports other than going to a Superbowl party or if one of the local teams is in the playoffs or made it to the finals (Stanley Cup, Larry O'Brien, Lombardi, World Series) and the whole city (including the types of programming above) is buzzing about it. Other than that, it's not on their radar. What is on their radar is everyday bullshit celeb gossip/news, internet lists, memes, and all other sorts and sundry idle talk chit chat that goes in one ear and out the other, just like what passes for Top 40 music these days. All bass and beats and repitition. Mindless shit. THAT is what The Freak is aiming for. Yes, there will be some if not many tweaks and even whole sale push eject and get some good pitching in here changes to the lineup and schedule for the first 8 months. But once it finds its groove, absolute gangbusters. We the vulgate ARE that dumb and we demand only the most banal of banalities for our enjoyment. The Freak is more than ready, willing, and able to provide said drivel for us droolers.
Disagree. People aren’t tuning in to hear lists, memes, gossip, etc. shows like Russ, Kidd, Stern, developed over time and in most cases segued from music jocks to personality’s. In other words, it was only after that they became popular that they were allowed to stray off topic. You’re going to have a real hard time convincing me there’s a market for lifestyle talk that is nothing but that. Established stations like KLTY-frank Starkene and Hudson- or KSVS-Hawkeye and Michelle, already do lifestyle talk, and do it much better than anyone on the Freak. Plus Russ-Kidd-Howard were larger than live personalities. Everyone on the Freak is milquetoast bland in comparison, Rhyner being the one exception, but he’s a shadow of what he once was.
Let's work under the premise of what you say about the general market audiences' content desires are, is correct. The issue is, it still has to be good radio. All of the comparisons you make, are/were good radio - mass consumption general drivel or not - it was well programmed radio.
The Freak is not. It is objectively a terrible station with no Program Director steering it. It's just not entertaining, or good.
"This will not be immediate and will take some time. But by the end of 2023, The Freak's numbers (and ad rev) will have markedly increased. And by the end of 2024-mid 2025, it will have effectively left The Ticket in the dust."
More.
"Yes, there will be some if not many tweaks and even whole sale push eject and get some good pitching in here changes to the lineup and schedule for the first 8 months."
Explicitly imply here that as currently constructed it isn't good yet, that it needs and will see changes, if not a drastic makeover vis-a-vis talent. This also includes those at the helm.
There are at least three music format holes in the market that KEGL could fill, at a fraction of the overhead and come out even further financially. The problem is, none of them hurt KTCK, which currently sit a top the sales numbers, now ahead of KISS. If KEGL can't correct that quickly (and so far it's not, hence the long segments and short stop sets), an overly expensive talk format isn't going to last to the end of 2023.
Correcting it quickly as in by the first book of 2023 shouldn't be an issue. If it is, then yes, the likelihood of the format being allowed to continue on will greatly diminish. But if you mean by quickly this calendar year, I think your forecast is far too hasty.
I also have to think iHeart knew exactly what they were getting into and decided to take a chance. Which, would mean they see the potential and will have patience, allwoing it to grow.
To return to Ticket talk. Upon Further Review is a rare Muser segment I don't care for. If it was done later in the week it might be better but on Tuesday I'm burnt out on talk about the Cowboys Sunday game.
George’s fake John Facenda UPON FURTHER REVIEW puts both my testicles on a tee to get smashed by a Big Bertha driver. I skip the segment every week so I don’t hear it
Whoa, now hold on! I've been led to believe that Sirois is the most amazing content creator, most compelling person to have ever been held back by a soon to be octogenerian and PD that's ever existed. I've also been told that (i) I'm a bitch and (ii) a certain legend is back on the airwaves. That alone tells me there is a market for these things and not only that, but that what they do is Freakin' genius!
All that and this: It's not going to happen overnight. But it will. Just like Kidd, Stern, Russ, Hawkeye, etc., didn't happen overnight. If you think they immediately hit the scene and exploded, then you don't know your history. To reimagine the sagacity of a former, brilliant Ticket PD (Laddie), "Time, buddy. Time." Give it just a lil' more time. Like another year and change. All you f'ers demand immediacy. If Widget ain't WidgetonSteroids this instant, then dammit, Widget failed. Shiny objects are often dangerous. Dig?
Ya know, gotta be honest and I never woulda thought I'd think it much less say it but it's true......it's time to move on from the Razor weekly. Stale AF. I'll go 1 step further and say it's time for the Stars to move on from him too. He had his day and he was greatness. That day's long gone.
How long did it take for Russ, Kidd, Stern, et al to become the rating powerhouses they were? My listening habits took me elsewhere in those days. The question is, will iHeart give it the time to develop before pulling to plug for something cheaper?
I appreciate that Captain Craptastic took the time to do a longer piece. I thank him, and always like it when the Confessor takes time to do something a little longer. I had some trouble untangling some of the syntax, but I think I got his major points.
I think he's really wrong. No disrespect.
"Not only will The Freak succeed, but also it will become the dominant talker in the area, far exceeding the scope of Ticket listenership by virtue of gathering in a considerable female, Latin, and those once drawn to Russ Martin and Stern audience."
I am trying to imagine a station helmed by Mike Rhyner attracting a substantial female or Latino listenership. Trying, but failing. I assume the good Cap'n recalls Rhyner's and The Hardline's attitude about women and Latinos. Come on.
Russ Martin's gone (RIP), but, as others have pointed out, there are other experienced lifestyle talkers on the air already. And if you want Stern, you can get a lot of him on SiriusXM. Also, as I have said elsewhere, topic-based "lifestyle" talk is freely available on non-subscription podcasts. Those audiences are not, repeat not, going to flock to The Freak in the short, medium, or long term, unless the Freak turns into something else entirely.
If the good Cap'n's point is that it will take time and lots of turnover, then he's basically saying what a lot of people here have said, that the current Freak lineup is not compelling. You can still call it The Freak, but if it isn't Rhyner and Sirois and B&S and Julie/Jeff/KT -- which is what we're talking about here at MTC, not some hypothetical improved lineup and management down the road -- then the incredible bombast of its initial promotion will go down as a colossal miscalculation.
Which is not to say that it cannot succeed as presently constituted. We don't know yet, and sure, the current lineup needs time to improve (except B&S, who have already had time). And it could. And it could do great. I just don't see it doing great by attracting this female/Latino audience which is already served by others, and better.
Lol yeah sure, a bunch of white bread suburbanites going over their list of top 37 school cafeteria lunch entrees is going to attract Latinos en masse. You know what might get a bump though. Talking about the GD Dallas Cowboys, because our Latin friends love them some Vaqueros.
Definitely after. Probs right after Whitt's scoop on The Freak is proven a hard lie.. Sorry bout them horns. Shaggy. All that money and still losing as if their lives depended on it. And all you well heeled Charlie Browns, so educated, yet ever falling without fail for Lucy's silly, obvious trick. Giggle.
It is a certainty that some Ticket listeners will drift to The Freak.
ReplyDeleteBut there's another sports station in town, the FAN, with a current daily lineup of:
Shan & RJ
K&C Masterpiece
Gbag Nation
(and, at night, The Get Right)
Now think about how The Ticket sounds, and how The FAN sounds.
Which does The Freak sound more like?
That's right, The FAN.
So doesn't it make sense for people who currently prefer the FAN sound to the Ticket sound -- i.e., who are already not listening to The Ticket so much -- to be the ones attracted to The Freak?
So from which station is The Freak most likely to poach listeners?
Ticket. The FAN attracts the more sports inclined listener. The listener who wants sports to be the clear focus of the station with a little guy talk thrown in. Pretty much what you get on most sports talk stations across the country. The Ticket sorta warped if you will the taste of the DFW male 18-54 demo. Most Ticket imitators of which at one time there were many have long since returned to sports first, guy talk a distant second added toss in cherry on top. The Freak is squarely aiming for The Ticket and that's where it'll get listeners. Why would a FAN Fan who prefers sports over guy talk go to a station that's even less sportsy than The Ticket?
ReplyDeleteFor those who might know from the rating surveys, what is the median age of Ticket listeners? I'm sure the number of D1P1s is rather small now but the rest of the age breakdowns would be interesting. While Reddit is a bad example I would think the under-30 crowd would be most likely to switch. It would also be interesting to see how much of the Eagles old listeners hung around.
ReplyDeleteJake also posted on Twitter this weekend his son was having some health issues and that he may or may not be on air much in the future and had cleared it with management.
I said this a few threads ago and will restate it.
ReplyDeleteThe Freak will be short lived. Mike R will begin (if he's not already begun) a very very quiet, behind the scenes apology tour with his former workmates. Not for what he did, but the way in which he went about it and for things said and insinuated. When Corby yelped it was "unconscionable," he was not addressing what Mike did, but how he went about it. Namely that he was going on Ticket shows all the while negotiating The Freak in order to make himself more visible. More to the point he did that and then claimed he was mistreated and marginalized by The Ticket. Pure Speculation on My Part Disclaimer: I don't think Mike's been in his right mind (insert WOMM joke here) for quite some time now. I believe he's experineced a world record (public) midlife crisis of sorts and The Freak is the cold bucket of ice water, the slap to the face, the jolt of the shock collar that has knocked sense back into him. As 339 points out, if you read between the lines and follow the patterns, Mike always tips his hand in some way about which way his wind is blowing. He's tossed out the 1 year and done possibility a couple of times now. Listen to The DownBeat. Not always, but often it sounds like he's already checked out. Mostly through his silence. Specially when being praised or told how happy he looks. I believe Mike is waking up to some realities about the situation and how he got there. More so, how he allowed himself to get there. Again this is pure speculation meets armchair psychology on my part. While I might have an advance degree in pure speculation, I've never had so much a high school class in psychology so take what I say with a grain of salt. Still my gut's telling me I'm on to something. The other part of my original claim was that the rest of The Freak hosts might have a real difficult time finding a job in this media market after its shockingly soon crash. A lot of trash was talked. Things out and out said and other not so nice things insinuated. But at the end of it Mike's legacy will not be harmed in the long term. It might have some of the shine taken off for awhile, but not forever. I imagine he'll lay low except for Petty Theft shows. Then again he might decide to retire from the public eye and leave the PT days behind. I'm not the person who keeps making the Ed Wallace and Cat statement. But I was a listener to Ed's show, Wheels. His last show was yesterday. How he said "so long" was the way you do it. I hope the next time Mike says "so long" he takes a cue from Ed and not attempt to create a meme about himself. Mike Rhyner will always be my leader. From his KZEW days until he left The Ticket, my way was through him. I'll always think of him as that Mike, not Freak Mike.
With the current recession, aren’t advertising dollars drying up for all of radio? I would assume it will be worse than march 2020.
ReplyDelete613, you make a good point.
ReplyDeleteMy thinking is that The Ticket is not that much less sportsy than The Fan. Some, but not a lot. But it is very distinguished from The Fan in the way its hosts interact and the whole gestalt of the station. The Fan is much, much more conventional talk, and so, for the most part, is The Freak -- old fashioned, almost.
But if it's the quantum of sports that is the deciding factor here, then you're probably right. Thanks for posting.
627: One might think so, but I don't believe it's the case across the board. iHeart is losing millions, but its sales even for radio are healthy and increasing.
ReplyDeleteI saw that troubling tweet from Jake. MTC's best wishes to him and his entire family. I'm sure the Confessor family joins me.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
DeleteI'd like to know that demo breakdown too, Gopher.
ReplyDeleteIndeed we all do, Pman.
ReplyDeleteDoes anyone know the status on that Rhynes doc...there was a screening some mths back, correct? I wonder if that sheds some light into the time from the Long Hallway Goodbye to the wheels spinning on his "Future Endeavors"...
ReplyDeleteI haven't switched the dial to Freak in a couple of weeks. Not purposeful - -in fact, it occasionally crosses my mind once a new Ticket segment starts..."oh i shoulda checked out what Rhynes and Sirois are talking abt during that commercial".
When i had prior - and I think its def been brought up - - the Downbeat was just rehashing Good Ol Ticket Times : Full Repeat Rhynes - The Dropped 3rd Strike - bringing up Dark Period - hell, bringing up HangZone's infatuation with Octopus' - - all it made me think was well, wish these guys were still on my fave station.
If the Freak creation brought us Tuesdays with Gordo on HZ & Rant Revivals- A++. Honestly, Ticket shoulda seen how these semi reg mixes work - Picks with Friends, Camp and Superbowl. Big fan of the Musers Cowboys Talk with TimmyC & a Host. Even Intentional Grounding with a Host for the 1st segment - -greatness.
More 7pm F-around shows. How bout Corbs or Bob give it a go...& Dan from the Den needs to happen. Bring your Producers on trips - Mino more on the mic is Gold. Tickets still where Ill be Keep my Ears Listening.
Gagree. I've given The Freak a month, like I did The FAN when it started out and a month for RaGE. I always go back to The Ticket. Yes it's got many issues. Yes Corby is mostly a douche canoe. Yes Norm really ought to retire or at least take an emeritus position and just do the drafts and selected Cowboys pre/posts and some pop on segments like Rhyner was prior to The Freak. Yes they get pretty one sided on the socio-political side of things. Yes it's no longer an all day, never want to miss a segment from any show station (for ya'll who weren't around from 94-2006/7, you missed something that will never happen again on radio). All that's true. But it's still better than anything out there. Including and far better than Rhyner's new baby. Look, I totally agree that Rhyner has the right to do what he wants and how he wants. I've got nothing against him doing this. Not a dang thing. But I'd be lying if I didn't say that I wish he hadn't. That I wish he wouldn't have done those silly retire/unretire videos. That I wish he would've rode off into the sunset and remained every bit the enigma he always was. But that's not what happened. Regardless, I still gave Rhyner 2.0 and The Freak the old college try, just as I did Greggo 2.0 and The FAN, and neither measured up to what they once had and what The Ticket, despite its numerous shortcomings, still is.
ReplyDeleteUp and in the car earlier than usual for a medical procedure. While wife is driving I’m punching thru the dial. The music stations are playing what’s expected. The ticket is doing turning points of the game. The fan is discussing the cowboys WR issues and if jerry should go get OBJ. And the freak is discussing Halloween costumes and the Halloween parties they were at this weekend. Although Kevin Turner did make a funny comment about internet commentators and their negativity. Maybe we’re negative because you’re product is not impressive? Plainsman may be right, they may be going for the coffee talk format. If so, why not hire experienced people with ratings track records, and not cast offs and spares?
ReplyDeleteI have not listened to the Fan since the Freak came on the air. I would switch over there during commercials or during a segment I didn't care for so I can't say I listened much to begin with. I just don't find any of the Fan host to be an enjoyable listen. Like many here I've given the Freak a solid listen and while I find it enjoyable in parts and I like the host better than those on the Fan and some on the Ticket it hasn't grabbed me enough to change my listening patterns. I switch to podcast after the Invasion. I split my drive home between The Downbeat and non Corby segments on the Hardline.
ReplyDeleteI hope for the best results for Jake and his family. I've had more personal interaction with Jake than any other host on the ticket and he's always been a great guy to me.
P.S. Very nice Red, P-Man
Nice choppers on that one.
ReplyDeleteI meant to include that reading lists and coming up with ever more intricately ruled game show segments does not reflect a host's unique pov's or personality. Really it's just being lazy and uncreative. That's what ruffles my feathers a bit about The Freak. All this talk of creative freedom and for them it seems to mean reading lists compiled by others and databases and unimaginative game shows.
ReplyDeleteIt has been pointed out that The Ticket does contests, lists, and the like. That is true.
ReplyDeleteBut The Ticket does a lot fewer of them.
It does them better.
And they aren't contrary to their claimed reason for existence.
The Freak is at least making a show of having the courage of its convictions to this extent, based on my ten minutes of listening today:
ReplyDeleteOn the day after a Cowboys victory, The Hardline is 100% Cowboys.
When I checked out The Freak, Mikes 1-3 were talking about scary movies and getting ready to report on their assignment of watching "Hereditary."
And I was struck with something else that really floored me, but I'll save it for the next red. May need to gather more impressions to report fairly.
October ratings:
ReplyDeleteKLNO-FM 5.2 #1 (Mexican)
KTCK-AM 4.4 #5
KEGL-FM 1.5 #26
How do those comp with Aug/Sept?
ReplyDeleteJUL AUG SEP
ReplyDeleteKTCK 3.7 4.3 4.0
KEGL 1.7 1.3 1.5
For…what time period and demo?
ReplyDeleteTotals are Persons 6+, Mon-Sun, 6am-midnight
ReplyDeletehttps://ratings.radio-online.com/content/arb024
From another board, there was only one week of the new KEGL format in those numbers. The next book will give you what you seek.
ReplyDeleteAlso, as we have been beaten over the head with, the plus-six numbers don't mean much. You have to pay $$$ for the good breakdown.
My guess is when the next book comes out and after having been properly broken down, we're pretty much going to see a big nothing burger of a difference between The Eagle and The Freak. If anything, I'd bet the ad-dollar revenue was less.
ReplyDeleteThis isn't going to end well, but at least it'll be a quick ending as opposed to some long drawn out, ever changing cast of characters in hopes of saving the thing. Feb. '23, flip. Bank on it. Soon after is when the backstories will start to come out pertaining to how it actually came about and how it went over with others, and that's when things will get real interesting.
Naw. I'll lay down a pink slip on The Freak being around for years to come. I bet that next book's gonna shock The Ticket.
ReplyDeleteYesterday in the opening segment on the Downbeat, both Mikes joked about how Gordon is on the air at the Ticket “every minute of every day.”
ReplyDeleteCurious attack from a 2 man show who have yet to do a show with just the 2 of them.
DeleteKEGL's debut week were WAY down from the rest of the month (M25-54). Won't get any real information until there's a full month of numbers. with the limited amount and curious execution of whatever marketing they've done, converting listeners may take time.
ReplyDeleteLet me guess, Sirois overlaughed for 30 seconds and then they unironically welcomed Julie in for her 592nd segment of the day?
ReplyDeleteThere was over laughing from Sirois, but you are wrong about Julie. They had Jeff Cavanaugh on for his 592nd segment of the day.
Delete!
It was just the two of them yesterday, three if you count Mike 3.
ReplyDeleteI'll have more to say about that anon.
That tells you a lot about the Mikes. Sad stuff, I must say.
ReplyDeleteI'm beginning to think senior citizen Mike isn't exactly who we thought he was, at least in some ways. Either that or some seriously screwy things went on behind the scenes with not just Cumulus/management but also Ticket hosts for him to take the stances he has since The Freak went live.
I've always, how shall I say this, thought there was more to middle aged Mike than meets the eye. I'll leave it at that and for you to read into what you will.
Claiming The Ticket isn't your main competition (I mean, how can anyone be since what you're doing has never been attempted beore, right?) and then taking at least one if not several pointed or oblique shots per day at it screams insecurity. It also screams you're getting a lot of pushback and blowback and it bothers you greatly. Why? Because you know deep down much of it's on the mark.
No, actually, Pman, Sirois' mother was on for the first hour +. Didn't hear Cavanaugh, but that doesn't mean he wasn't popping on.
ReplyDeleteBTW, over at Ticket reddit there are no more Freak threads. Including the weekly mega thread, which garnered a whopping 33 comments last week. Not sure if that was a decision made by the page admins, little to no interest in 97.1, or a combo of the two. But it did go from a shit ton to nada in a month and change.
ReplyDeleteRound here it’s my freak confession.
DeleteSo Julie's on TDB today. She's really earning that Living Wage.
ReplyDeleteJeff Cavanaugh was on the first few segments of TDB yesterday. He left to make room for Cash and Vida Sirois. They were on for 4 segments. That’s what they mean when they say they do what they want! That would never be allowed at the Ticket.
ReplyDeleteGot it. While I was listening, they announced only the two Mikes and Grubes.
ReplyDeleteHi Sirois
ReplyDelete^^^^^^Awful bit.
ReplyDelete422: You're not entirely wrong, but we've always covered the competition. FAN, RaGE, and now The Freak. When The Freak defines itself by comparison with The Ticket -- you're gonna get a lot of Freak stuff here, and here's to it.
ReplyDeleteFor anyone who pays attention to this sort of thing, The Hammer has not tweeted in a month. Could mean nothing, could mean something.
ReplyDeleteI keep waiting for TDB to have a solid show from start to finish. I keep waiting for a show where it's just the Mikes.
ReplyDelete1 month and change in and I'm still waiting.
I loved Rhynes and Sirois on The Ticket and was sad when they left. But I think they overestimated themselves as individual personalities who can carry 4 hours of all-talk without sports as a backbone/crutch. I'm just not interested in these guys (or anyone really, even at The Ticket) to tune in daily to hear 4 hours of random topics that often sound like filler. The Ticket save those for the special one-off F-around shows and White Elephant Day, which allows us to build up the hype and enjoy them more.
ReplyDeleteWith the Downbeat's constant rotation of other hosts, there is definitely some mystery 3rd host that they are waiting for...whether it's Danny Balis or whoever. And even as a big Danny fan myself, I don't think he could save them.
Now if they were to commit to being another sports station in this market as a TRUE Ticket clone then maybe they'd have a chance to knock off The Fan as #2. But with how they came out blazing with this "We talk about whatever we want" motto, it seems like they will stick to their guns.
Maybe this is the value of competition but while Bob & Corby talked either college football or their Narcos review (neither thing of interest to me really) I optioned to tune into Mike&Mike.
ReplyDeleteBecause I'd earlier popped over during a break and immediately were exposed to food tasting of stuff with pumpkin flavor(?), I was annoyed when I came back and they were still talking about food - when suddenly Sirios asked - apologetically - if he could "talk something sportsy" - only to spend the next 10 minutes talking about the NASCAR story about the guy ramming his car into the wall. Rhyner & Julie (who continues to be an utter waste of air and comes across like one of those people on Good Morning Texas trying to pass off bought promotional time as something interesting) both tried SOOOO hard to sound interested and play along - and it dawned on me - all of this Downbeat stuff sounds like a holiday DryDock crew who have been glue'd together out of necessity.
If we want to compare and contrast qualities of executing ideas - Mike&Mike ate food on the air to compare pumpkin and it again felt like a GMA segment - also today, Jake and Gordo drank the former's wife's breast milk and made something kinda gross in premise - extremely funny and entertaining.
If Rhyner thought he was marginalized and suppressed on The Hardline with Danny and Corby alongside (a marginalization/suppression in which he fully participated by failing to take the reins on his own show and eschewing show prep and actual interest during the broadcast), I can't imagine how minimalized he'd feel if it became the Mikey and Danny show.
ReplyDeleteI give Danny a lot of credit for brains and ears. He won't jump in if he thinks anyone is looking to him to right a foundering ship.
Who’s just dying to listen to TDB plus Danny? Didn’t (royal) we spend most of the 2010s bemoaning Hardline 3.0? So let’s bring 2/3rds of it to a new rudderless format and that will be compelling talk radio?
ReplyDelete@Anon 917, having Sirois’ Qrazy Qanon mom on for 4 segments is holiday drydock content if I’ve ever heard it.
ReplyDeleteGood shit, 832.
ReplyDeleteI kinda get that same feeling about them waiting for someone or someones a la the calvary to arrive. Seems like there's a giant placeholder thing going on. Almost sense this 'just wait til what's in the works goes down, then The Ticket and everyone else will eat our dust and can go pound sand.' What's the calvary though? I agree it can't be Dan Balls. Don't get me wrong, I dig his stuff, but come on that's not going to make everything fall into place. There's that Richie Whitt predict. If true then that could be the calvary. Can't imagine that it is true. For the foreseeable future 1310 is a stable means of compared to most of us healthy income and benefits. Benefits that go beyond healthcare packages I might add. With 97.1 who knows. Dan has kids in college and Jake has an infant and a toddler. They need stability. I guess if iHeart offered them a guaranteed gargantuan contract they couldn't refuse they'd go. Why would iHeart do that? It makes zero sense. So I don't see it happening. But yeah, 832, I think the Mikes and whomever they convinced at iHeart (it was all them and not B&S who got this rolling) have greatly overestimated their cache. I've had no less than 12 people ask me if I knew who this guy on the billboard off the DNT that says "I'm back" is. Rhyner's a HoFer for sure but he's not Kid Kraddock and he sure as hell isn't Ron Chapman. The days of star radio DJs are long gone.
I'm thinking Danny was never and will never be a part of The Freak. The way in which Rhynes said "no" to the question of Danny's involvement during the D-Mag pod was rather telling. It was hard "no" to say the least. It almost sounded angry.
ReplyDeleteIf he is, I'd think it would be this Friday or next Monday, because he's now been gone from The Ticket without being on a competitor station longer than Sirois was prior to signing on with The Freak. If you think they all began work for a competitor the day of going live, you're wrong.
Again, I'll just mention that with respect to Jake and Dan (1) they're under contract for a while yet, and (2) when that is over, they'll most likely have a covenant not to compete that will last for something on the order of six months beyond that.
ReplyDeleteAbsent some extraordinary circumstance that my poor imagination is not imagining, neither Jake nor Dan nor the Hangzone package is likely to skip to The Freak for a period approximating the next year.
Anyone hear the TC show last weekend? When is it on?
ReplyDeleteIf a tree falls in the woods and....
ReplyDeleteThose first week ratings numbers are BRUTAL. Especially for Ben & Skin. Below 1s. Yowch.
ReplyDeleteTC & Jorts are on 2-4p Saturdays
ReplyDeleteSince the Freak has been on the air, there has been 1) the mention of adding the Hangzone around January and 2) there's another host coming to the Downbeat.
ReplyDeleteBoth of these ideas confuse me. I have never worked in radio, but why would a station that is just launching, come out with the shows and then in a few months change the shows or add more hosts if that was the plan from the beginning? Would there be a reason that the downbeat has to rush just to get on air? If the downbeat is going to be something that competes with the hardline, why not have the show complete before taking it on air? It just seems like a bad business idea to me. "Hey were opening a new restaurant. Right now we have half the menu, but in a few months, we'll have more of a menu, and in 6 months, we'll have the menu complete." Maybe there is reasoning behind it, I just don't understand.
Also, I think it would be sorry to be trying to get the HZ, and to only promise jobs for the original hosts for several months and then fire them.
HZ is not leaving the Ticket at least any time soon, due to hosts being under contract and having non-competes which leads to Danny. If Danny is the person they keep hinting at (and at this point I suspect it is), I've been told his noncompete ends sometime in November so to answer your question they didn't want to hold up the entire launch of the station just for that one guy.
ReplyDeleteDoes The DownBeat keep hinting ata 3rd host? Can someone give a specific? I've beenlistening a few segments or more per day and heard nothing hinting at another piece of the puzzle.
ReplyDeleteThe HZ rumor is from Richie Whitt and no where else. So disgruntled/disgraced/incompetent/failure of a talk show host says he’s heard they’re adding the Hang Zone. Let’s review quotes from his article about the freak “multiple sources…(market) will add a 3rd sports talk station”. “New stations ticketesque format- guy talk anchored by sports”, “DFW will again have 3 sports talk radio options”.
ReplyDeleteHow wrong is he on those? The Freak insists on saying they’re not sports. So who lied to Richie?
So on to his 10/7 whitts end column. Now his sources have dropped to “that industry source”. What happened to SOURCES? Then RW is told “DB will join freak once his non compete expires”. But Danny was pretty clear on his exit that money was an issue, but with kid at home there’s quality of life issues involved.,so he trades Ticket for freak, for same daypart? Add Mikes emphatic No and DB just seems unlikely.
Whitt continues-“HZ hosts Jake/Dan are seriously considering bolting for the freak in early 2023”.
As plainsman has said, they’re under contract and if Danny et al have non competes, damn sure HZ does. So even if they could leave in Q1 of ‘23, it’s probably late summer or fall before they can be on air. If early ratings are bad, does the HZ really depart for a failed bit?
Other than the Plainsman's often too genteel and charitable view of RW, you'll be hard pressed to find a RW fan here. We're all aware of his colorfu and at times seemingly shady past and present. But you're partially nitpicking on this one. Partially in that RW broke the story on The Freak, was pretty much correct on all points --including Rhyner's involvement, which many here and elsewhere laughed at--, and if you've even listened to 3 minutes of The Freak, across the day, you will hear exactly what RW described...regardless of how they pitch themselves. Time will soon enough tell if his second source is correct. I agree THZ leaving seems not only far-fetched, but also (for now) a legal impossibility. I too agree with your thoughts on Danny. As well, unless something radically changed since his departure, Danny and Corby are extremely close friends (off-air, as in weekly communication). I have heard from several people who run in those circles that Danny holds Corby in much higher esteem than he does Rhyner. So there's that.
ReplyDeleteLet me beat the one clever commenter to the punch: Hi Richie Whitt.
Let me reply to that clever commenter: ^^^^Awful bit.
RW is getting fed his info directly from Mike R or Mike S. That’s why he “nailed” the freak launch and lineup
ReplyDeleteIf he’s getting info directly from Mike or Mike, how do you think he got the “3rd sports station “ line so wrong? I agree with the nitpicking because it is “ticketesque guy talk”, so he got that part right. But why have Richie prime the pump with “3rd sports station” only to be wrong? Unless they wanted the publicity of being a new competitor, but really knew they were going to go for a different format lane, “hot talk”. Leaking to Richie gets it in SI, starts the buzz outside of industry circles, etc , and who cares if he’s exposed as wrong, it’s incompetent failed host Richie Whitt.
ReplyDeleteRed flags are and have been on display for a long time now.
ReplyDelete@239, a lie of omission on the part of the Mikes to drive what you talk about in the latter part of your post. Emphasize Ticket exes, Cavanuagh, Mavs flagship, but also “we’ll say what we want”. RW assumes Ticket clone without being told that.
ReplyDeleteThe same people who are saying the Freak will fail are the same people who said the Fan will fail - 14 years ago and still on the air!
ReplyDeleteIt seems that Donovan Lewis has remained above the fray regarding rumors that he'll jump ship to the Freak. Donny seems more and more 'put out' to be working with Norm every day. He's in a crappy time slot, and will remain in a crappy time slot, even if he's given the top spot on the Ticket 10-12 when Norm steps down. Donny is great at what he does, is universally respected, works hard, and is always prepared. Why wouldn't the FREAK target The Great Donavan? He has a big following, and not just in the community. Donovan has universal appeal, for sports and guy/hot talk. I believe his talent is being wasted with Norm on mid-days.
ReplyDeleteAlso, please note: I would FOR SURE tune in to hear Mike Rhyner and (a sober) Greg Williams together again. Perhaps that's just a pipe dream (that bridge was burned all the way down). Mike was at his best with Greggo in the 1st officer's seat. MR had no contemporaries when Hammer left him with Corby and Danny, and that was a problem. He has no contemporaries now, and it's the SOS.
Actually, no one said The FAN eould fsil. Only thst it sucked. Has never not, by the way . Nice try, Freak employee. Whoever you might So be.
ReplyDelete^^^^^^awful bit
ReplyDelete^^^^Awful bit to copy someone else's original response as your own. Show some creativity, some originality, chief.
ReplyDeleteMy lukewarm opinion: when Norm mercifully gives it up, hopefully in 1-2 years, DJ R should be next man up. He meshes admirably with both morning shows, thought he was a great secondary voice when he did tickers with THZ, he’s got a good sense of humor, local kid. #teamDJ
ReplyDelete2 minutes in to Greggo's Mom Game appearance and it was patently obvious he suffers from many things mental and physical. There's no way anyone would hire him, period. I guess if Rhynes demanded his hiring and vouched for him it might happen. Barring that, if even that, no bleepin' way. Funny/sad thing is, neither Rhynes nor Greggo are very good without the other. Greggo was terrible (demons or not) on ESPN, The FAN, and in his own short lived pod and the even shorter lived pod he did with some friend. He was objectively awful (when he decided to actually show up). Can you really say Rhyner's been all that good since Greggo's departure? I say "no, he hasn't." In fact, I'll go as far to say he's been pretty piss poor. From his post Greggo days that began with the edict, "we owe you (P1) nothing" followed by 13 years of absolutely mailing it to the blink of an eye stint at The Athletic to his several start up, fart and fall down attempts at pods on Vokal, to (now) The Freak where from the moment his well delivered but scripted day one opening monologue ended, he picked up right were he left off at The Ticket/The Athletic/Vokal. That is mostly mute, with little to actually say when he does open his mouth (which is usually some named segment dedicated to *i.e., forcing* him to get involved.
ReplyDeleteThose two, for whatever reason, were THE match for each other. They brought out the best in one another. Greggo stroked Rhynes' ego but also had his own strong opinions that Rhyner respected. Conversely, Rhyner kept Greggo (mostly) from straying too far off the farm. While they're about a decade apart in age, they shared enough common pop/sports culture knowledge and experience to have genuine conversations. Nothing was ever forced, it always came off as organic. Watching Rangers games and yukking it up in the pressbox for a few years prior to The Ticket helps with that tremendously. Whatever the reasons it worked, it just did. Neither has been the same (on-air wise) since they parted ways.
I'd love to hop in a time machine and relive those Ticket Halcyon Days. But that's impossible. What's more, if they did try to put the band back together I guarantee it would be a disaster. Both men lost their hosting fastball nearly 15 years ago now. It was lightening in a bottle. Both as a pairing and as individuals.
Monty, Mino, and DJ are The Ticket future. Mino was great on THZ today. Monty's always cooking with fire. DJ definitely has the goods. All of them 'get' what The Ticket's about. The Ticket is about sports with a local slant with a nice dose of 'guy talk'. There's one Gordo. That's more than enough. Bits are fun when they come in bite sized packages. With the likes M, M, and DJ, and Jake being the future face of the station, The Ticket's in good hands. The FAN? CBS money, honey, keeps it afloat. It'll be around for as long as CBS decides, ratings or not. The Freak? Soon to be a footnote in DFW radio history. Mike R's involvement seen akin to Jordan's baseball and Wizards days: "WTF was that about? Dunno. Guess he just wanted to do it. OK, it's his deal. Still, he's the GOAT."
ReplyDelete@927, agree with all you say above. Especially about today’s HZ. But Dan can really lift any fill in host’s game. Matt flipping McLaren and Dan were great together.
ReplyDeleteI guess for me, when The Ticket first went on the air in 1994, I was so excited because we were getting our first all sports station. I had no idea about bits and fake characters and made up characters, and I certainly hadn't heard of an entire language that we early listeners would come to know as Ticket-speak (Ticketionary: whip, ___ of the highest order, squid, head right with ___, hazed, grayed, and underway, etc." Sports talk was what got me pumped up. All the rest was just a never ending stream of the tastiest gravy ever on top.
ReplyDeleteIt's my belief that when it really comes down to it, most Ticket listeners are sports fans and that's what they want to hear. Not in the Mike and The Mad Dog or what you hear on a national feed sort of way. In a way that focuses on the hometown teams in relation to the rest of their respective leagues and has enough "I can relate to this guy" everyday talk interspersed with some regular/entertainment/popculture news of the moment. But sports is the first and foremost thing considered.
This is what The Ticket does so well. We don't want 13 hours straight of what's basically Good Morning ___ or The View. This is essentially what The Freak is wanting to be or claiming it wants to be. It's a terrible premise for a radio station. You end up with 12-13 hours of people talking about what interests themselves. It's one big j off session. If you have something to center your attention on, then you will attract listeners who also share that interest. Yes you can deviate from it just as The Ticket does, but when you do it comes off as refreshing. Variety is no longer the spice of life once all that exists is variety.V Variety at that point is essentially no longer. The Freak's already there. I suggest you visit their reddit page. It's an odd bird. Not a lot of action, but what's there is interesting. Much criticism from listeners and many replies and even requests for suggestions from Jeff Cavanaugh and KT. Some of the retorts also make me suspect Sirois and other hosts are participating, as well.
The Freak is freaky. But not in a cool way. In a headscratching way.
Maybe it'll go over like gangbusters. Regardless, I won't be listening. I like sports. Not Good Morning Texas.
I have a question for the group, this group of confessors seems more coherent than most groups one might read.
ReplyDeleteI am right there with everyone, "Rhyner made the Ticket", I think he is great. Did HE make The Ticket? He got it off the ground, sold the idea, brought a team together and it worked. And THL was a great show. I got here in '99 and loved it. I would argue, the Musers are to be credited just as much after the thing set sail. And, even though it came later and was not my favorite, I think BAD was a huge player.
I just question if we give too much credit to one, when Bruce, Cat, Dan B, etc may need a little credit also.
Greggo is a huge part of why The Ticket became The Ticket. Rhyner has said so. He was THE star of the early days
ReplyDeleteI can't imagine Greg Williams returning to team with Rhyner. Two reasons:
ReplyDelete(1) Whatever you think of Richie Whitt, go back and read his account of his time with Greggo at RaGE. It's pretty much the same experience Rhyner and Corby had with him on The Hardline. It is inconceivable to me that Rhyner would put himself through that again until (if ever) it becomes clear that The Freak is not going to set Dallas radio on fire as promised.
(2) iHeart knows that the world has changed since Greggo was last on the air. Tolerance for casual redneck misogyny and other unwoke attitudes is zero -- if not among listeners, then among advertisers. Things that were just naughty ten years ago are absolutely verboten today. Rhyner was low-risk/low-reward, but HeeHoo is high-risk/no-reward.
I think you are dead right on these thoughts. But the Freak really would catch fire if Greggo became a co-host with Ryhner. All of this is performance art. If Rhyner craves an audience AND financial gain, roll the dice on Greggo. And if/when he is too hot for radio, migrate the show to podcast. Does anyone remember Williams’ insane claims? YOU BET YOU DO! THAT is what is missing. Maybe on the Ticket…certainly on the Freak. A firebrand. I say do it. Go supernova.
DeleteThere is an infinitely less than zero chance Greggo ever works with Rhyner again. The number is too small to even be stated in human terms
ReplyDeleteNot gonna happen, Celery.
ReplyDeleteNot just Rhyner, Surly, but in the biz, period. Every bridge that could've possibly burned, he absolutley incinerated. In his professional, pirivate, and public-online lives.
ReplyDeleteScott:
ReplyDeleteYou make a great point about the PDs. The Ticket has had the benefit of REALLY good program directors. To hear the love and respect the Old School Ticket personalities have for Bruce Gilbert and the Laddy, it's very clear they were a big part of what made that early ticket vibe so successful. Cat picked up where those early PDs left off, and he is a big part of The Ticket's success back then and today.
That's correct, Tangent.
ReplyDeleteCat knows talent.
Ed Wallace is right about Rhyner.
Starting to see some of the awful Norm ageism and baseless "holding him back" chatter on Twitter and reddit directed at Mike Rhyner. I'll never understand this modus cogitans. No, this isn't aimed at a host, only the dingleberries who think this way. That's why for the most part MTC is a rather special, singular place. Sure we have our trolls every now and again and some downright bizarro world back and forths. But on the whole we're a fairly measured bunch with solid to at times pretty damn insightful if not out and out prescient thoughts. Even when we disagree, it rarely gets out of hand. And when it does cooler heads step in to assuage the negativity and eventually Plainsman deletes the b.s. and reminds us of the MTC Code of Conduct. A rather nice thing, this MTC, I'd say. As regards Twitter and reddit, alas, the same cannot always be said.
ReplyDeleteanyone else wonder how KEGL is going to handle holiday vacation time?
ReplyDeleteApparently they've had a covid outbreak and are just running reruns this week?
ReplyDelete"best of" - lol
ReplyDeleteThank you, 653, for your kind comments; quite unexpected.
ReplyDeleteI try to keep things civil without being overly persnickety, and for some reason people are more comfortable with long-form comments here than they are on Reddit/Twitter. I'm wondering if that's because we probably do have a little older demo here who work on laptops and desktops in greater numbers than the phone-exclusive folks.
Do I understand the last few comments to say that there's no new content today on The Freak? I tuned in to The Speakeasy this morning and couldn't tell -- it was a Harry Potter discussion.
The Speakeasy was talking about weather and yesterday afternoon’s car chase on my way in to work today.
ReplyDeleteThanks. I misinterpreted earlier comments that seemed to suggest the contrary.
ReplyDeleteMonty should be a full third host on the Hangzone. He's on with Jake today and its a really enjoyable listen.
ReplyDeleteWould love to see a Monty/Donnie pairing, moving Norm to emeritus status.
ReplyDeleteMy guess is there will be no drydock for The Freak. At least not this year. It's so crazy that they say they're not a sports station yet go to a national sports feed when not live.
I listened to a segment on B&S late last week that pertained to bet payoffs. The one under LENGTHY discussion entailed Krystina having a calendar year to punch the loser in the face at a time of her choosing, and that would occur without any warning. Yeah, uh, captivating stuff. Really funny stuff. Sure.
I've yet to be able to listen to more than one segment at a time for any Freak offering. Don't get me wrong, I've tried. The descriptors "poorly constructed, apparently not a lot of thought went into it, too hastily brought to bear" keep coming to mind each time I tune in. If anyone here was around for the Live 105.3 days, The Freak is pretty much the same thing. Live 105 was lifestyle talk that also touched the sports page (B&S, Ron and Don). Like The Freak, they too sold themselves as radio, free speech rebels. And like Live 105, I fear The Freak won't enjoy a long lifespan.
Why Rhyner got himself involved with this, I'll never understand. Then again, the persona he inhabited/put on display from '96 - '07 and the one since '07 are, to use his pre-'07 parlance, a dichotomy of the highest order. I do have a theory about it and the genesis and engine of it all, but it's pure speculation so I won't. Ah, just to head it off at the pass. Of course Rhyner has to right do it. Absolutely. But that doesn't mean it makes good sense. Especially when you factor in the haphazard construction and presentation.
My working theory is that Rhyner is pissed that the station has succeeded without him. I know people rag on the “new hardline” but Sturm and Davidson have managed to keep the ratings where they were. Saw elsewhere that Ticket was top 10 12plus, so ratings don’t appear to be suffering. What was suffering was Mikes fragile ego. He saw His exit and the station win another Marconi. He saw his exit and the station suffer zero in ratings for it. Watch the documentary, mikes always had a nemesis, and decided in retirement that Cumulus was his new one. I’m sure he had fun filling in for Skin when he was sick. But B&S offer a gig and give him a chance to get back at the company that did him wrong? (See footnote 1)? Mike and his ego couldn’t resist it. Ben and skin have never done well anywhere they’ve been. Iheart management probably started clamping down on them to perform. And their response- stations a hodgepodge of music, us, Russ leftovers and more music. Let us remake live 105 and look at all the money you’ll make. And iheart bought it, if Rhyner was part. Look at how much of the early marketing has centered on Mike. They’re stroking his ego. And frankly it’s all they have. A senior who by all accounts was checked out for the last decade of his radio career, who walked away with no notice from his last job. (See note 2)
DeleteFn1- I think Mike thinks Cumulus did him wrong by doing things like asking him to talk cowboys during cowboys season, and interviewing the head coach of the team that you’re the flagship station for. The nerve of a program director to try to do things to increase ratings or revenue!
Fn2- dude at sports station in Philly announced retirement like a year in advance. Gave station a year to put plan in place to replace him. Mike left in December knowing he wouldn’t come back. That’s the sign of a guy who doesn’t care about his station, or his co workers, only about himself. Again this is about mikes fragile ego.
It’s late stage Boomer brain to a T. The fragile ego, the contrived grievances, the 110% total selfishness, look at me I’M BACK nonsense. Gag me with a spoon.
DeleteNo one should be surprised by Mike's involvement. You do know that in 2009 he was in negotiations to leave The Ticket for The FAN. Yes, The Godfather, the progenitor of "Bunker Mentality" came a c-hair away from migrating over to the competition, to compete against The Ticket and in short order would've been reunited with Greggo (at least they'd be coworkers). This isn't to say anything negative about Mike. It's only to serve as a reminder that at least 11 years prior to his leaving, Mike's loyalties towards The Ticket and everything-everyone associated with it had all but dissolved. If I was a Freak host or a part of Freak management, I'd keep that history in mind. Humans are creatures of patterns. In other words, Mike might've been opened the door for them, but if they think their way is through Mike, they very well could be in for a surprise.
ReplyDeleteA man once said that the pinnacle of success
ReplyDeleteWas when you finally lost interest
In money, compliments, publicity
Many years later, another man will say all that again
But not for the sake of inspiring men
But rather 'cause he's got nine songs and knows he needs at least ten
Before he can go back to town and turn them all in
Todd Snider - "Money, Compliments, Publicity(Song Number Ten)
Black-hearted to the bone
ReplyDeleteOlder than the Rolling Stones
Been to Heaven, been to Hell
Bought the farm and I won't sell
Give and take, rise and fall
Rise up and take it all
Secret love, I won't tell
Knock you up and ring your bell
Kiss the whip, eat the gun
Tell me it ain't fair
Midnight victim, hit and run
I'm so bad, baby, I don't care
Lemmy Kilmister - "I'm So Bad (Baby I Don't Care)
So uh what's going on with Ticket Saturdays? We have a new show dedicated to the Stars and one dedicated to The Mavs. The latter was still going on at 7:30 pm. I hope this is the new way (used to be the way back in the day). If so, good on ya, CMotA. And if this is due to The Freak's existence, then there's the one positive thing thus far about that knotted ball of frayed twine.
ReplyDeleteI wasn't listening but I assume the Saturday Stars show was the pregame for a 3:00pm game.
ReplyDeleteMaybe. But it wasn't Bruce and Owen snd it wasn't called a pregame dhiw. Something like Stars Edge. After yhe reg postgame show, a Mavs program, again, not affiliated with the regular hosts begsn. Monty even called in and gave his perspective on Kidd.
ReplyDeleteI think Mino is an emerging future star on the Ticket. He has a very good sense of humor and quick wit about him. Good solid sports takes combined with pop culture sensibilities that the station needs as the main stars age out over the next decade. I think he would be foolish to move as he will likely matriculate out of the produce chair to the host chair in next few years. Jake/Mino & Donny would make a great mid day show. Dan could be teamed with Corby and Davy when Bob leaves for a national gig in the next year or so.
ReplyDeleteBob has a lot of diction work to do if he wants to go natty. JoeL Klatt; not “Joe”.
Delete@ Anon 6:51
ReplyDeleteIt could have been Saad Yousuf, who is the Stars beat writer for the Athletic and part time producer on the Ticket. If it's an actual Stars show that seems like a good idea since it's hockey season and the Ticket carries the Stars games.
I thought it was super cool that both shows were on. Used to love Ticket Sports Saturday and Sunday with Stu Seder, Ty, SeaBass, and whoever else they'd get. Hoping they get back to that sort of stuff on a permanent basis. I'm a sports first, guy talk second listener. Although we're not the vocal segment of the listening population, I guarantee we're by far and away the largest. I love bits. I love Gordo and I was a Rant P1. There are bits o plenty throughout the day on each show. But I want my local and when needs be national sports talk. The FAN sucks at it. Other than when Cowlishaw was on the now defunct ESPN, it sucked too. Couldn't listen to Cowlishaw because of his loudmouth partner, Steve Dennis. I dig the sports takes we get on The Ticket. I dig the bits. More so because they're the dessert and not the main course. So as far as I'm concerned, sports sports sports with some choice bits thrown in so things don't get boring. As far as The Freak goes, I couldn't give two shits about it. I used to think Rhyner was the tits. As the fake Rick James said, "the milk's gone sour." Rhyner talked a lot of smack and slotted a lot of people over the years and did it on-air. Now he does and says many if not much of those very same things he once crapped on. Never understood the Sirois and Julie mania. Mike seems like a fun guy but what's he going to talk about on a daily basis to keep anyone's interest past a couple of months, if that? So because Julie's female we're all supposed to think her farts smell like a lavender diffuser? How insulting is that to women. She seems like a nice person who is good at reading Tickers. No small beer in that. A host? Not right now at any rate. Maybe sometime down the road. Ditto Mike. I love The Ticket.
ReplyDeleteThe Stars program is called Stars Edge and the Mavs one is, I think, Mavs Beat. Weekly 30 min podcast and shows on the state of the teams. All JV host. I don't think Saad is on the Stars one but I don't remember any of the host other then Ryan Median being involved in the Stars show. They run Stars' Edge before the pregame show on a weekend Stars game.
ReplyDeleteCaught a few minutes if the speakeasy this morning. Couple of things made my ears perk up.
ReplyDelete#1One of the Mikes has Covid, cavanaugh said something about too brain dead to help fill in, so they just ran a “best of” Friday afternoon. No explanation of why other Mike (Rhyner, I think) couldn’t or wouldn’t do solo show. If it was Rhyner, what does that say about his commitment to the station and/or his ability to carry a show. Sad that a major market station is so thin/weak that they can’t find a fill in host for fricking PM drive. Pathetic.
#2- Cavanaugh said something about sorry couldn’t fill in on Friday, especially because ‘corporate people” were in town. For all of their “we talk about what we want”, their positioning of themselves as renegades and outlaws in constrained by corporate radio. Go back and read the Ben and Skin interview from the launch. Select quotes: “a squad..have the creative freedom to do what they want, when they want”. “So often it’s an uncomfortable mandate from the corporate machine”. “This is all about creative freedom”.
There’s a certain cognitive dissonance in all this creative freedom AND having corporate suits in town is there not? I’ve heard the early ratings signs are not good. Maybe corporate has decided that’s a 50k watt blow torch of a signal, capable of billing millions as a music station. Maybe we shouldn’t piss that away by giving the keys to Ben and skin, 2 guys so “meh” they’ve burned through 5 stations in 14 years.
I have never heard Norm NOT call the Washington team "the Commandoes." Is he doing a bit every time, or does he not know their correct name?
ReplyDeleteOf course, George "the Commander" Dunham has called Norm "Hitchges" forever, and it's clear he doesn't know how to pronounced Norm's name -- not a bit.
Over on 97.1 Sirois is back after a bout with dual Covid/flu
ReplyDeleteFormat change incoming. Rhynes is aware and has already begun his spin/revisionist history campaign via Twitter. Don't believe me? Go scroll through it yourself.
ReplyDelete400, I checked out recent Rhyner Twitter. Thought I was seeing everything, but didn't see any hints along the lines you suggest. Maybe I don't have the blue checkmark Twitter. Can you (or anyone) unpack this for us?
ReplyDeleteHe's dropped what could be construed as trollish Tweets akin to, "could be a year and out, could be longer" and things along those lines. There's also the super thin-skinned Tweets and the "bring it on" tough guy Tweets. All of which points toward uncertainty, insecurity. He knows the thing's on thin ice. Because it is. Anything thrown together as sloppily and as reportedly quick (by those for whom it's in their best interest to say it was done that speedily) as The Freak, there is very little wiggle room for finding firm footing. It's throwaway stuff. And things put together in that manner are treated as such. Rhyner knows. It shows.
ReplyDeleteHe's also Tweeted out a couple of "I'm here to shepherd the thing" claims, too. Which is far different than what he said in the interviews leading up to and directly after launch.
ReplyDeleteI find Rhyner on twitter annoying...even prior to any freak news. The other day he tweeted "that's one of the coolest things i've ever seen at a game of any kind, any sport." And someone replied "can you learn hashtags so we don't have to guess?" And Rhyner replied "Nope...gotta follow along." When it wasn't like he was even tweeting about the topic prior to that tweet.
ReplyDeleteLooks like The Confessor is just about commented-out on The Freak.
ReplyDeleteNot much else to say, Pman. It kinna blows chunks, as in it's a non starter, if ya know what we mean. It's the same dealio on reddit/Ticket. The reddit/Freak page is about as lively as the reddit/FAN page, which is to say if a bear shits in the woods...
ReplyDeleteI think the only thing left, if it's really anything at all or even worth/is in good taste to comment on is if the former Ticket heroes are actually cut out for their new gigs, and if opinions of said heroes' on-air fortes have changed or not. This includes Mike R. To keep it classy like, I'll say and leave it as follows:
ReplyDeleteJulie and Mike S were in their best suited roles while at The Ticket.
Mike R, for a handful of years, was an utterly compelling on-air talent.
Infer what you may from the rather explicit implications found within the above declarations.
It’s been busier around here the last month than it has the last year.
ReplyDeleteIt has. But Freak buzz has died off considerably after an initial deluge. Now it's mostly the same people restating their positions. Speaking of which, I'll restate my position that The Freak is not long for the airwaves saying that I'm now convinced it will not make it past the Feb. '23 book, max. Yes, it's that bad. All of them. The Godfather included; perhaps first and foremost.
ReplyDeleteNew angle I have been contemplating. Did Gordon start his Tuesday THZ appearances about the time The Freak went live? Seems to me there has been more cross pollination lately, I wonder if that is driven by 97.1. I get Picks with Friends and Pigskin Panel, but it feels like it has been more frequent lately.
ReplyDeleteI also wonder where these listener calls are we are waiting for? It appears to me they may be doing some, not much. I think that fan interaction is better done with email, or social media, which they already do some of. I really hope it doesn't go caller driven.
For The Freak, I have not given it a listen in 3 weeks, with exception of a Mavs game or two.
If you listen closely, clearly the Ticket thinks that listeners like roundtables, the mixes, guys night out, ticket-stock, summerbash, etc. in other words any time hosts are mixing with others. So in my mind do you know what Gordon showing up on the HZ is? A program director telling them what to do. The Fresk talks about what they want. The Ticket has a guy who has won multiple Marconis programming a response. I’d say that the Freak is bringing a knife to a gunfight, but realistically, with the talent and track records of who they’ve hired,(with the exception of MR) it’s more like the Freak is bringing a dull set of silverware to the gunfight.
ReplyDeleteIf you think that’s unfair, let’s review.
Your morning show, arguably your most important shift since listeners tend to inertia, consists of three people, none of which have any kind of solo ratings success. All have been on other shows, but none have ever had to draw an audience on the basis of THEIR talent. And you’re putting these inexperienced broadcasters up against a show with not just Marconi nominations, but also a Marconi win. That’s your dull spoon.
Your midday show is a holdover from your previous failure of a radio station. Side note if the Eagle wasn’t a failure, why flip formats? Ipso facto, failure. B&S have failed at 5 stations, never doing well enough to earn a long term contract. There’s your dull fork.
And finally the dull knife, the recycling of a bitter retired host from your main competitor. Rhyner is clearly the knife, and 10 or 20 years ago the knife was sharp enough to do damage. Now? No one on social media thinks Mike is on top of his game, and have you heard ANYTHING in the last 6 weeks to convince you otherwise? To top it off, to show how dull the knife is, I’m told Mike quit the show early at least one day last week, and just didn’t to do the show on Friday when Sirois was out sick. That’s not a razor edge looking to cut a competitors throat. That’s the rubber bladed knife they give you in self defense class so you can pretend you’re dangerous as you get your ass kicked. As for Sirois? Another guy who has zero track record of getting ratings on his own. Doesn’t seem like a bad guy, but he’s no Greg Williams on the personality front. And certainly not enough experienced or interesting enough to sharpen the dull blade that is Mike Rhyner.
It’s a dull set of silverware. And if early hints of the ratings are true, clearly no one is interested in their offerings.
Holy . . . . Someone in radio just called to my attention that The Freak doesn't start its local programming day with The Speakeasy until 7 AM! Y'all probably knew this already, but it came as a shock to me.
ReplyDeleteThat's incredible. iHeart would rather run its overnight syndicated Cole Thompson show into the hours where people are tuning in to morning drive rather than get its revolutionary, kicky, renegade-led, subversive, and say-anything local Speakeasy product up and running.
iHeart cannot be serious about The Freak.
Actually, they start re-running the Big 4, which I guess is highlights (if you call them that) of the day before. This starts sometime before 7 a.m. I know this because I somewhat liked listening to Cole Thompson during Muser commercial breaks and got irritated when Freak switched away from him.
ReplyDeleteAt least with the Ticket top 10, you know you’re getting either interviews, or good segments, or funny bits that are all sports related. With the big 4 we’re invited to listen to a scintillating discussion of the difference between hash browns and home fries. And a crew survey to decide if scalloped or au gratin is their preferred potato side.
Delete(Note, not a real topic, but give them time, or the chance to read this, and we’ll have it soon)
This format is the Ben and Skin show wrote large. But there’s a reason they’re show rank was in the 20’s. They don’t have the talent or personalities to be interesting enough to hold together a show about nothing.
It's what I've been saying all along, Plainsman. A hastily put together of a nothing burger centered around a 70-something who's "back, bitches" and who also happened to have stopped working in earnest -content-wise at least- sometime back in '07-'08. From the assembled talent to the speed of which it supposedely was conceived, pitched, and put on-air, the entire endeavor was set up to fail. It's a throwaway. If Rhyner finds that Ticket magic, fantastic, iHeart just got a cash cow for zero investement of either time or money (the or-air talent, sans Rhyner, do not command large salaries); if not, fine, flip formats again and no big whup. No big whup because, again, there's little to no investment or overhead. As to how it all came about......well, that's another story, and one that's far more interesting than its outcome. That story will emerge. Especially once The Freak goes the way of the Dodo, which is coming sooner rather than later. From what I've heard (and mind you this is not from direct sources, but from those who are in some ways connected to direct sources, so take it with a grain of salt), personality conflicts have already begun to percolate. Again, don't take that as gospel.
ReplyDeleteA corporation isn’t giving out multi year contracts and firing them without seeing it through. If anybody should be worried it’s 105.3
ReplyDeleteRhyner himself said he may only stick around for a year or 2. What indication is there that anyone at the Freak, sans possibly Rhyner, has anything resembling a long term contract? And the Fan has the Cowboys, which at least drives some audience and weekly ratings.
ReplyDelete@218 Who's been given a multi year contract? Other than Rhyner, no one. Find a new source, as yours is poor.
ReplyDeleteAnon telling Anon to find a new source is a new low for MTC
ReplyDeleteSo says an anon. Self-awareness much? GFY, dude.
ReplyDeletewhen they announced, and then actually bragged about, their major market morning show wasn't starting until 7am - I knew this was not a serious effort. setting aside the lack of experience of each of the show's hosts, and the fact none of them have worked together, or in the form of a morning show - starting at 7am is mailing it in.
ReplyDeleteOr serious cost cutting. For ease of math let’s use an average of 75k per employee. (Average —clearly Rhyner will make more, Cather, Grubes less). Am drive - 300k w Julie, Jeff, KT and Cather. Mid- 225k w Ben skin and Christina. Pm drive- 225k with 3 miles. Add another show and you’re now in the neighborhood of a million dollars on an unproven format. They’re doing it on the cheap until something is proven. My prediction- if the November ratings are good, they look at a 4th show. If they are not good, look for major corporate influence to try to “fix” everything from their clocks, to the formatics, to their imaging, to their topic selection. All of which right now I would rate as poor.
ReplyDelete^^^^^^THIS. B I N G O. Been saying it from the launch. Reeks of "whatevs" of "oh what the hell" of placeholder unless something magical happens.
ReplyDeleteAlways be leery of anyone or anything (e.g., a business/group/etc) that keeps trying to convince everyone around them (and themselves) of something. Be leery.
But 937, maybe I don't understand your point about associating cost-cutting with a 7 AM start, but: Why pay those sums (which strike me as high for the non-stars, which is all of them except Rhyner) and then cripple their chances for success by starting the broadcast day way late, as sports-talk radio goes?
ReplyDeleteMaybe they have some kind of contract with the syndication entity for Cole Thompson which forbids cutting into his show early for local broadcasting.
Maybe they don't know what they want to say until later in the day.
I have a hot Freak opinion of which I want to unburden myself, but in fairness to said Freak I need to hear more of The Downbeat before I so unburden. But I'm having a hard time listening to it in preference to The Hardline. Stay tuned.
The prime advertising window is 6a-7p. It’s why stations start at 530a, so the show is already on by 6a, and people up and using media are more likely to have tuned in. In other words, if your p2 is (music station) you may be on it until your preferred show starts. So if you have 3 shows and 13 hours to fill, what do you do? Odd to have shows end on a half hour like 6-1030, 1030-3, 3-7. Or you kiss off the first hour and divide 12 by 3. The other option is a 4th show and another 200-300k in expenses. They could go even cheaper with syndication, but everybody else is friends with Ben and Skin. Unless Syndy Cation (hi guys!) is some chick they’ve worked with before, there doesn’t appear to be any interest in having proven, successful radio shows on the air at the expense of giving their producer his own show.
ReplyDeleteAnd your comment about Cole Thompson makes no sense (no offense!). He wasn’t on pre-freak, so any syndication deal would be new, right? So they signed a deal that deliberately hamstrings them competitively? If so, then PD deserved to get fired.
Anything is possible, but the simplest explanation seems to be cheap. Bringing in talent from outside the market costs money. They went with who they knew, who was available, etc.
And Plainsman, that 75k figure was meant to be an average. But Ben and Skin own a brewery, you don’t do that making 30k a year. If you have some folks at 40-50-60, and Mike, Mike, B&S making maybe 100k, 75 seemed like a good average. Point being, their programming payroll is already at maybe 750k. Where the Eagle had jocks who didn’t even live here voicetracking dayparts on the cheap. This is costing iheart a lot of money.
ReplyDeleteNone of this means crapola. Freak is dunzo come Jan 2, my prefict. Well before that in reality, but as far as no longer being broadcast, Jan 2. Behind the scenes in-fighting and factions already present. Not my predict, but what's actually going as in guys it's going on right now going on.
ReplyDeleteSources for infighting report?
ReplyDeleteBar talk at bars where certain drinksy Freakies often hang and their friends practically live at. Friends with drinky (see: loose) lips.
ReplyDeleteSounds authoritative to me.
ReplyDeleteIs ThePlainsman1310 and The Plainsman the same person?
ReplyDeleteDoes this mean he's done?
ReplyDeletehttps://twitter.com/theoldgreywolf/status/1591057091988721666?s=20&t=Sx-MxVF8dUQeEidYFE6IJA
@ Anon 8:50
ReplyDeleteHe's going to his daughter's wedding.
1250: Can you clarify the question? Where are you seeing these different names?
ReplyDeleteScroll through the comments? 4 above your most recent was from "ThePlainsman1310" with no profile picture
ReplyDeleteEg, 1137 pm is Plainsman1310 with, as Surly said, no picture. Either it's you are someone's impersonating you:
ReplyDeleteIt’s like twitter up in here
ReplyDeleteBetter purchase that blue check, Psnap. Horns gonna rain on the Frogs' parade tomorrow, Shurly? I'm thinking they will,
ReplyDeletePet peeve. Has anyone noticed how annoyingly Bob (and I like him a lot) pronounces the letter a when saying "a" this or "a" that when he is trying to give the subject extra emphasis. Example: I would be happy with "ah" win. Instead of saying uh he says ah like the sound you make when the doctor sticks a tongue depressor in your mouth. Bob: I would be happy if Dak wins "ah" ring. The bad thing is it has rubbed off on others at the Ticket now. I heard Corby do that the other day.
ReplyDeleteMinnesotans, Wisconsininins, Illini, Manitobans, and some Ontarians do that. It's a regional thang.
ReplyDelete@ 1018, See: Alf/Elf, famously replayed on BaD/HZ opens. Those upper Midwest tonals and vocabs don’t go away. My sainted mother is a 40+ year Texan transplant. Coke is still pop. It will always be pop.
ReplyDeleteTurned on the Ticket midday today to hear the always excellent Cowboys pregame show hosted by SeaBass and David Newberry but no... The Motha F'n Stars game was on instead. I know it is probably a money maker for the station but nothing in the weekly lineup is a bigger buzzkill than the ill placed Stars game.
ReplyDeleteYou can find the pregame on Ticket Twitch, YouTube, and Facebook channels.
ReplyDeleteThe Stars are a great franchise, hockey's a great game. Stop whining.
The station is contractually obligated to carry the Stars games.
ReplyDeleteFreak HSO
ReplyDeleteI think all the supposed inside info and predictions of an early or otherwise demise of The Freak are absolutely bullshit in the former and utterly wrong in the latter.
Let me begin by pre-saying that I am a P1. Moreover, I like neither what I've heard coming from The Freak thus far and nor do I think The Freak talent pool (including Rhyner, Dobbs, and Sirois) is very good. Having pre-said all of that, allow me to make a Rhyneresque (I should say a long ago back when he actually had something Rhyneresque) statement concerning The Freak:
Not only will The Freak succeed, but also it will become the dominant talker in the area, far exceeding the scope of Ticket listenership by virtue of gathering in a considerable female, Latin, and those once drawn to Russ Martin and Stern audience. The reach of the format will render any talk of competition with The Ticket moot. The stations, eventually, will have nothing in common but some employment history crossover. This will not be immediate and will take some time. But by the end of 2023, The Freak's numbers (and ad rev) will have markedly increased. And by the end of 2024-mid 2025, it will have effectively left The Ticket in the dust. As a result, The Ticket will fully embrace its identity of being a sports station WITH (not AND) guy talk, and will go in an even sportsier direction moving forward as regards new hires--i.e., replacing hosts who retire/any new weekend shows/producer-3rd host roles/etc.
There are far far more people covering many demos out there than those who listen to sports/guy - guy/sports. Those potential listeners are the countless who tuned/tune into Kidd Kraddock & Co, Russ Martin (at its height), Howard Stern, DeDe in the Morning, etc. etc. etc. They enjoy lifestyle talk. They don't care about sports other than going to a Superbowl party or if one of the local teams is in the playoffs or made it to the finals (Stanley Cup, Larry O'Brien, Lombardi, World Series) and the whole city (including the types of programming above) is buzzing about it. Other than that, it's not on their radar. What is on their radar is everyday bullshit celeb gossip/news, internet lists, memes, and all other sorts and sundry idle talk chit chat that goes in one ear and out the other, just like what passes for Top 40 music these days. All bass and beats and repitition. Mindless shit. THAT is what The Freak is aiming for. Yes, there will be some if not many tweaks and even whole sale push eject and get some good pitching in here changes to the lineup and schedule for the first 8 months. But once it finds its groove, absolute gangbusters. We the vulgate ARE that dumb and we demand only the most banal of banalities for our enjoyment. The Freak is more than ready, willing, and able to provide said drivel for us droolers.
Hot. Freak. Opinion.
Disagree. People aren’t tuning in to hear lists, memes, gossip, etc. shows like Russ, Kidd, Stern, developed over time and in most cases segued from music jocks to personality’s. In other words, it was only after that they became popular that they were allowed to stray off topic. You’re going to have a real hard time convincing me there’s a market for lifestyle talk that is nothing but that. Established stations like KLTY-frank Starkene and Hudson- or KSVS-Hawkeye and Michelle, already do lifestyle talk, and do it much better than anyone on the Freak. Plus Russ-Kidd-Howard were larger than live personalities. Everyone on the Freak is milquetoast bland in comparison, Rhyner being the one exception, but he’s a shadow of what he once was.
DeleteLet's work under the premise of what you say about the general market audiences' content desires are, is correct. The issue is, it still has to be good radio. All of the comparisons you make, are/were good radio - mass consumption general drivel or not - it was well programmed radio.
ReplyDeleteThe Freak is not. It is objectively a terrible station with no Program Director steering it. It's just not entertaining, or good.
"This will not be immediate and will take some time. But by the end of 2023, The Freak's numbers (and ad rev) will have markedly increased. And by the end of 2024-mid 2025, it will have effectively left The Ticket in the dust."
ReplyDeleteMore.
"Yes, there will be some if not many tweaks and even whole sale push eject and get some good pitching in here changes to the lineup and schedule for the first 8 months."
Explicitly imply here that as currently constructed it isn't good yet, that it needs and will see changes, if not a drastic makeover vis-a-vis talent. This also includes those at the helm.
There are at least three music format holes in the market that KEGL could fill, at a fraction of the overhead and come out even further financially. The problem is, none of them hurt KTCK, which currently sit a top the sales numbers, now ahead of KISS. If KEGL can't correct that quickly (and so far it's not, hence the long segments and short stop sets), an overly expensive talk format isn't going to last to the end of 2023.
ReplyDeleteCorrecting it quickly as in by the first book of 2023 shouldn't be an issue. If it is, then yes, the likelihood of the format being allowed to continue on will greatly diminish. But if you mean by quickly this calendar year, I think your forecast is far too hasty.
ReplyDeleteI also have to think iHeart knew exactly what they were getting into and decided to take a chance. Which, would mean they see the potential and will have patience, allwoing it to grow.
ReplyDeleteTo return to Ticket talk. Upon Further Review is a rare Muser segment I don't care for. If it was done later in the week it might be better but on Tuesday I'm burnt out on talk about the Cowboys Sunday game.
ReplyDeleteThat, Picks Against The P1, Razor and Brian Jones Interview, Ranch Reports and Musical Musers. That’s a lot more than I thought it would be.
DeleteYou forgot any Craig basketball segment
DeleteGeorge’s fake John Facenda UPON FURTHER REVIEW puts both my testicles on a tee to get smashed by a Big Bertha driver. I skip the segment every week so I don’t hear it
ReplyDeleteSame. It’s nails on a chalkboard to me.
DeleteWhoa, now hold on! I've been led to believe that Sirois is the most amazing content creator, most compelling person to have ever been held back by a soon to be octogenerian and PD that's ever existed. I've also been told that (i) I'm a bitch and (ii) a certain legend is back on the airwaves. That alone tells me there is a market for these things and not only that, but that what they do is Freakin' genius!
ReplyDeleteAll that and this: It's not going to happen overnight. But it will. Just like Kidd, Stern, Russ, Hawkeye, etc., didn't happen overnight. If you think they immediately hit the scene and exploded, then you don't know your history. To reimagine the sagacity of a former, brilliant Ticket PD (Laddie), "Time, buddy. Time." Give it just a lil' more time. Like another year and change. All you f'ers demand immediacy. If Widget ain't WidgetonSteroids this instant, then dammit, Widget failed. Shiny objects are often dangerous. Dig?
Ya know, gotta be honest and I never woulda thought I'd think it much less say it but it's true......it's time to move on from the Razor weekly. Stale AF. I'll go 1 step further and say it's time for the Stars to move on from him too. He had his day and he was greatness. That day's long gone.
ReplyDeleteHow long did it take for Russ, Kidd, Stern, et al to become the rating powerhouses they were? My listening habits took me elsewhere in those days. The question is, will iHeart give it the time to develop before pulling to plug for something cheaper?
ReplyDeleteOh hey look, reddit's shitting on Norm for ruining The Ticket by not giving The Brilliant One and The Living Wage his salary and position.
ReplyDeleteRule #1: I've never seen a more stupid bunch of fuck-o's than the inhabitants of that page
I mean, have you actually listened to their handiwork on The Freak yet? Yes? And you still want to make that claim?
Rule #2: Refer to Rule #1
I appreciate that Captain Craptastic took the time to do a longer piece. I thank him, and always like it when the Confessor takes time to do something a little longer. I had some trouble untangling some of the syntax, but I think I got his major points.
ReplyDeleteI think he's really wrong. No disrespect.
"Not only will The Freak succeed, but also it will become the dominant talker in the area, far exceeding the scope of Ticket listenership by virtue of gathering in a considerable female, Latin, and those once drawn to Russ Martin and Stern audience."
I am trying to imagine a station helmed by Mike Rhyner attracting a substantial female or Latino listenership. Trying, but failing. I assume the good Cap'n recalls Rhyner's and The Hardline's attitude about women and Latinos. Come on.
Russ Martin's gone (RIP), but, as others have pointed out, there are other experienced lifestyle talkers on the air already. And if you want Stern, you can get a lot of him on SiriusXM. Also, as I have said elsewhere, topic-based "lifestyle" talk is freely available on non-subscription podcasts. Those audiences are not, repeat not, going to flock to The Freak in the short, medium, or long term, unless the Freak turns into something else entirely.
If the good Cap'n's point is that it will take time and lots of turnover, then he's basically saying what a lot of people here have said, that the current Freak lineup is not compelling. You can still call it The Freak, but if it isn't Rhyner and Sirois and B&S and Julie/Jeff/KT -- which is what we're talking about here at MTC, not some hypothetical improved lineup and management down the road -- then the incredible bombast of its initial promotion will go down as a colossal miscalculation.
Which is not to say that it cannot succeed as presently constituted. We don't know yet, and sure, the current lineup needs time to improve (except B&S, who have already had time). And it could. And it could do great. I just don't see it doing great by attracting this female/Latino audience which is already served by others, and better.
iHeart is doing this on the cheap, Gopher. I think you mean pull the plug for a more tried and true, readily profitable format.
ReplyDeleteLol yeah sure, a bunch of white bread suburbanites going over their list of top 37 school cafeteria lunch entrees is going to attract Latinos en masse. You know what might get a bump though. Talking about the GD Dallas Cowboys, because our Latin friends love them some Vaqueros.
ReplyDeleteY'all just wait. And when it happens, eat my shorts and kiss my grits.
ReplyDeleteWill it happen before or after the Ticket switches to caller-driven radio?
ReplyDeleteDefinitely after. Probs right after Whitt's scoop on The Freak is proven a hard lie.. Sorry bout them horns. Shaggy. All that money and still losing as if their lives depended on it. And all you well heeled Charlie Browns, so educated, yet ever falling without fail for Lucy's silly, obvious trick. Giggle.
ReplyDeleteI'm having a thing for classy reds lately.
ReplyDeleteNew post up with observations about a couple of Downbeat audits.