Sunday, November 17, 2013

Demo Redux

ALERT:  Long.  Repeats comments you may have already read.  You've been warned.

*     *     *

The last thread had some very thoughtful pieces and responses on where The Ticket might possibly be headed.  Here are some of them (sorry about the formatting irregularities -- Blogger's word processing is pathetic), and then I have a couple of thoughts:

This first one, from Anon 225, doesn't focus on the Hardline, but on Ticket competition generally:

Flipped on 103.3 today. Elf and Friedo have a show. Nice to hear Elf on the airwaves again. Like B&S and Greggo, he's now done the trifecta. Except in a way, working for 103.3 is sort of a return back to The Ticket. On that note, by the way, the cross over between the two stations is already underway. Programs on both frequencies are beginning to cross reference/mention the other. In a friendly manner, too boot. While listening to Elf and Friedo (sorry, Dick Hicks, I know it's the last Race Week of the year, but I can't deal with it), I started to think how 103.3 might be about to embark upon cracking the code that is The Ticket. How? By taking the IDEA of The Ticket and making it their own. Instead of, like certain ESPN programs in the past (looking right at you, B&S) and well, every single FAN show, copping Ticket lingo, segments, and just about everything - basically aping The Ticket to a T with zero success - they've decided to take the "guys just being guys who happen to know about and have inside info on, sports" concept and run with it. But do so by actually being themselves, and not trying to be THL of The FAN or whatever. It's early in the game, but so far they have my attention. Pman's too, for that matter. I'm looking forward to the ratings books over the next six or so months to see how this shakes out.

Things got rolling with runitandrunitandrunitandrunitandrunit, expanding on Anon 225's point:

Exactly right, 2:25. What's going on at ESPn is kind of what went on during the first years of The Ticket. They're getting for the most part locally known talent who've been around the media scene for a long time who 'get' the DFW area mentality and who have lived here and know the area intimately. The demo for sports talk radio is not going down. It's still the same as it's always been: mostly approaching, in the midst of, or about to exit middle age/d white dudes. The young aren't listening, and the scant numbers that are diminish with each year. No getting around it.  *  *  *  If you've ever been to a remote or a bigger event, you see their demo first hand. All of this means that on the whole (please note that part, "on the whole" which means of course there are exceptions) the majority of the listening audience wants to "converse" with guys like them. Not snarky younger guys who come off as knowing everything (whether they do or not is not the question), are into music that is for the most part alien to them, and who are experiencing and relating their adventures that most listeners went through themselves years, decades ago. They want the guy next door who gives the knowing nod, not Jake, not TC, not Sean, not Machine, or whomever. It's not a knock on the guys I just mentioned, at all. It's just the way people are and how they relate to others and to whom they relate to. LIke seeks like. Unlike might be interesting for a bit, but in the long run it isn't. 

Thus the picture here is that with a demo that ever remains the same and yet will inevitably shrink, and an up and coming demo that really doesn't exist, and the little that does keeps dropping off, you've got yourself a shaky future for The Ticket because they have no veteran replacements. Due to the probable future of the industry a youth movement is actually counterproductive. Cheaper, yes. So the upshot is that over the next years don't be surprised if a group of vets who've passed their 20 year mark begin to set sail, a group of (absolutely deserving) up and comers take their places, and the once mighty Ticket begins to slip in a most major way. Falling prey to its sibling with big mouse ears and a largely aging talent pool that connect with a largely aging demo.


runit had some additional thoughts in the thread you may want to check out.  Anon 111 had an interesting contrapuntal observation:

As someone who is probably in the younger end of the demographic (too old to start a high school fan club but around the age of the up and comer JVers), I am amazed that we are listening to the same shows. I love the Musers but The Hardline is my show of choice. 

I started listening right around when Greggo left. Thanks to our pals at the Unticket, I've gone back and listened to the old shows and I probably wouldn't have been into the show that much back then. Greggo just isn't my thing. And maybe it's coming to the station towards the end of things with him and just not being there Day 1 but he leaves me with a big old meh when I listen to archived Hardline shows. 

Corby can be too sheltered/pompous/privileged. I like Mike's music and TV segments and hearing old band stories. But I really like the weekend guys a lot and think they're finding their niche. Shake Joint and Cirque are solid and most people I know in my age group that listen agree. Again, love the Musers too but that didn't seem to be a point of argument here.


All very interesting.  Got me thinking.  

First, I am no expert on the overall radio audience, but I have a hunch that when it comes to The Ticket and its competitors, the demo business is somewhat overblown.  The market for sports itself is huge and growing.   The NBA, MLB, and NFL are prospering even in this dismal economy.  Driven mainly, by guys, and guys of all ages and levels of prosperity.  They get in the car, they turn on the radio, they want to hear sports talk.  They stay for the guy/pop culture talk.  Maybe that talk is by guys in their 30's, maybe their 50's.  But as long as it's good, and knowledgeable, and doesn't insult their intelligence, they'll like it and hang.  Check between the three stations, see which they like the best.  But still a huge audience to go around.   This, of course, does not address the relative popularity of the shows.

Second, the Ticket has been on top since almost the day it came on the air.  That's 20 years.  If a demo is going to change, it's going to change over two decades.  And yet The Ticket is more popular than ever, and The Hardline -- which has taken it in the jewels in the comments for the past little while -- if I'm not mistaken, is the highest rated show on the station.  This, of course, does not address what some here have urged to be the waning popularity of terrestrial radio generally.

Third, I'm willing to listen to our experts who predict the coming decline of terrestrial radio.  But if anything iHeart Radio, SportsDay Talk, podcasts, and even social media have, if anything, expanded the radio audience, so I'm guessing that radio -- or programming produced for radio -- isn't going away anytime soon as a destination for sports fans.

And one more thing:

Fourth, I have a feeling that the demo for this site is not closely representative of the P1 universe.  I'm thinking possibly somewhat older.  Perhaps more critical.  Just perhaps.  So when I see lots of comments slagging The Hardline (not that it doesn't need some slagging now and then) or predicting the coming decline of The Ticket, I do wonder.  Now, of course, The Ticket will change with the passage of time.  Stars will retire or leave -- almost lost Bob and Dan there awhile back.  Rome fell.  But it took a long, long time.  Gibbon's book is three heavy and closely-printed volumes.

And with Cumulus bringing a different strategy to ESPN -- which, on the evidence of the afternoon show, may be exactly as Anon 225 described -- it should be an interesting few years.



60 comments:

Anonymous said...

And Gibbon's tome was also written under the heavy influence of the Whig interpretation of history; a history seen through overtly Protestant, virulently anti-Catholic eyes. Hence Gibbon's laying most all the blame of Rome's fall on the early-Christians.

Half-Cat said...

Lot's of good points there. I had never thought about the mindset of older listeners (although I'm 30) and their take on the JVrs.

Think about this....Mike and Mike in the Morning probably get's great ratings across the board nationwide. Yet they are the most generic of generic shows. Yet they talk SPORTS. Maybe the key to all of this is sticking with sports driven segments which pleases all of the Demo.

I mean who is going to get butt hurt over the Ticket talking more sports?

This is where the Fan has failed. By simply copying straight up non sports segments from the Ticket they have essentially driven off "would be" listeners who were just looking for some sports talk...

Anonymous said...

I'm the anon who posted the counterpoint about liking the Hardline and the JVers. I really should create a screen name but I do social stuff for my work and try to keep my non-work stuff off the radar so I never mix 'em up.

I think you're very right about the demo being a little skewed on here, Pman. Insert Norm "and I mean no offense." It seems like it's a case of the squeaky wheel getting the grease. For people who are overall happy with the presentation, there's not too much to say other than, "great show, love the station." I think people who don't like the progression of the station or who have a little of the Old Days syndrome are the ones who are the most vocal. And I get that. But the numbers don't lie and the station is as if not more popular than ever and now that people who have left the metroplex can listen via apps, it seems to show no signs of failing or crumbling as some have predicted.

The thing about them needing to talk more sports? I'm a diehard Cowboys/Rangers/Mavs fan (sorry Stars) but if I miss a Monday morning Cowboys segment, I'm not too upset. I know there will be two dozen more of them in the course of the day. But I time my bathroom breaks and copier trips around segments like the O Deck, Muse in the News, Biggest Show, E Brake, Mike's Mind, E News, CQH, How Will You Feed etc. Those are the definition of "they can't do what we do" for me. For me, the perfect blend of sports talk that I love and Ticket schtick that I crave is and has always been Scattershooting. Best segment on the station and underrated as hell (other than by Junes himself).

cactusflinthead said...

If Mike and Mike were slamming it nationwide you could expect them to be touting that constantly. That is what ESPN does. If they have anything that might be considered promotion of their brand they are all over it. The silence is deafening. Get an intern to find out all 350 stations. I found...Toledo.
"The numbers were especially grim for 106.5 in the morning drive time, with CBS’ TBD in the AM (the trio of Tiki Barber, Brandon Tierney, and Dana Jacobson) experiencing a mass exodus of listeners who tuned in from 6 to 9 a.m. weekdays to ESPN’s Mike and Mike in the Morning. TBD’s average audience 12 and older was 0.1 — down 0.3 from spring, 2012, with Mike and Mike (Mike Greenberg and Mike Golic), with a weekly cumulative audience of 7,500 compared to 16,300.

The Ticket’s local sports talk lineup of Norm Wamer (3 to 5 p.m.) and Drive Time with Mike Miller (5 to 6 p.m.) did not slip as much in comparison — down to 0.2 from 0.3 in the 12-plus demographic and 3,100 from 13,300 in cumulative audience from spring of last year — which helped cushion the blow somewhat of the station’s substantial loss of a morning audience."
https://www.toledoblade.com/TV-Radio/2013/08/18/Now-Hear-This-Area-morning-radio-ratings-show-clear-winners-trends.html

Local, local, local. Toledo doesn't want to hear SPORTS from NYC/Bristol/NE corridor any more than we do in DFW. I could not not not care less about what NY thinks about the Jets or Brady or Cam. I do care what Norm thinks about Baylor. How much air time did M&M devote to Baylor? I bet a dollar the ratings of the 350 are reflective of here. Get the national blowhards off the radio( see Cowherd, C.) and some local voices on and lo and behold the ratings go up. They still have to have some entertainment value. Which is why the Ticket is still winning around here. Yeah, I would miss WTDS and all the other cacophonous bits in favor of yet another Cowboys segment. The worst radio of the week is the Jason G press conference. Instantaneous punch out. His job is to obfuscate and avoid the subject. His goal is to give out NO information. DeMarco Murray last week all over my radio? BORING. Great, he has a mission on some altruistic venture. Super. Nice, now get the hell off my radio. I had rather listen to a Dick Hick's Nascar CD from 3 years ago than to this upcoming J. Garrett presser.

Homer call of the week>Analyzing why Dez didn't get a pass.

cactusflinthead said...

Oh wonderful. A noon press conference. Hit the power down drop. Out.

DA said...

With Cumulus taking over 103.3, ESPN now operates three radio stations outright and owns four. That said, to become an ESPN Radio affiliate, the licensing fee for the ESPN name is upwards of $100K/year (depending on market size). Within most agreements, stations must carry all or part of two weekday programs: “Mike and Mike” and “The Herd”. Having the ESPN tag with your programming is much easier to sell local advertising than the competitors: Fox Sports Radio, Yahoo! Sports Radio, CBS Sports, and the NBC Sports Radio network (of which I have never actually heard).

@The Plainsman,
Back to the demos, the younger listeners are not listening to radio like you do. They stream radio on mobile devices more than ever. The “I have a $7 radio at my desk which cannot pick up 1310AM” story does not matter to them since they don't listen like you do. Radio revenues are flat across the board, barely 2%.

Link 1: https://www.npd.com/wps/portal/npd/us/news/press-releases/streaming-music-is-gaining-on-traditional-radio-among-younger-music-listeners/

Link 2: http://www.scribd.com/doc/147381420/The-Internet-Radio-Marketplace-Who-Listens-Where-and-Why-You-Should-Care-GroupM-Next-Research

The US has nearly 80 million “Millenials”, those born between 1977 and 1995, and they do not listen to radio, less talk radio of any kind.

Since 40% of today's infants are able to effectively use a mobile device/tablet before they are able to speak, also speaks of the diminishing power of radio.

Anonymous said...

How is what the Fan does not "guy next door who happens to know about sports"? They may not be as good as the ticket, but that's a terrible diagnosis. I know it's heresey around here, but The Fan's current lineup, while not near Ticket levels, is the best they've ever had. What's going on at ESPN right now is worse than before, it's not entertaining or compelling. It's boring. Enjoy elf and his 3 hours of no opinions everyday.
Just goes to show that everyone here, including plainsman (he thinks TC has something for chrissake), will blindly praise anything under the KTCK umbrella. Gimme THL, BAD and the Nation, because they're good, not because they're in a cool club.

Anonymous said...

I'm the 225 Anon whose comment you responded to.

@1031
I'm not so sure if the second half of your thought on who is most vocal is correct. I do notice that nearly all of those comments are longer and usually better thought out and better written. Now mine was a long one, but I can't say the same for better thought out or written. Like I said they're USUALLY that way! Even though my comment wasn't a good old days one, count me among that group of folks. I do think the I hate Corby group is extremely vocal, often delivering one or two lines of disgust with almost no backing whatsoever. So I agree with the first part of your thought. I don't know anything about the demo age group stats and all the rest.

@runit
Thanks for the backup. I mostly agree with what you said. Again, I don't know anything about the demo side of things, so I'll take your word. I do think that when Mike famously said "Once this is gone there'll never be anything like ever again" he was in part saying what you said. The thing that makes The Ticket so unique and that made it so successful so quickly was just what you said when you described the early years. It's that same thing I think ESPN might be catching on to. Except that The Ticket already happened. Things like it don't come around twice. As Mike famously said. So I agree with you that once the Musketeers are gone, it will quickly become one sports station among others.

FAN=FAIL said...

Hey 3:48, I think Chris Arnold's probably where you are about now. Now be a good CBS employee and get back to work. That's quite the lunch break you've been on.

The FAN imitates The Ticket so much (and so poorly) that I know of 4 people who have moved here over the past 2 years who, and I'm being totally serious here, THOUGHT THE TICKET WAS RIPPING OFF THE FAN. That's how pathetic The FAN is. You can say all you want about Elf (remember he used to be a co worker of yours) or anyone else at ESPN, but at least they're not ripping off their competitor. Hell, Elf and Slater were the only show on The FAN that didn't try to be the whatever show of The Ticket. Yeah, they sucked, but I'll give them that.

I'll spare you the embarrassment of using your own comment to show you how it is you that are guilty of blind praise, etc.

Anonymous said...

I have tried to listen to the Ticket via the streamtheworld app. It's so choppy and unreliable (not to mention the same ads over and over and over and over)that I just went out and bought a brand spanking new AM-FM radio for my office.

Anonymous said...

I'm 30 on the dot and I have been listening to almost exclusively the stream for a few years. Streaming through the site on the computer at work. In the car, when I had a car with a cassette player, I used one of those cassette-1/4" adapter then with my new car, just plug it into the mp3 jack. Started streaming with TuneIn, then reluctantly with iheart and now with Sportsday DFW. Can even pause and unplug my phone to run into the store, come back out and plug it in and finish the segment, fast forward through the commercials and catch up to live just like DVR. FWIW

runitandrunitandrunitandrunitandrunit said...

DA is absolutely right in what he's saying. The overwhelming majority of people in their early 30s and younger have zilch interaction with terrestrial radio. Most people in their 20s and younger have no idea am even exists, and their knowledge of fm usually consists of being aware that it's something their parents and/or grandparents listen to in the car. I think it's cool that there are some younger people who do know what terrestrial radio is, appreciate it, and use it (by this I mean both those who actually use a radio and those who are aware of its content but stream). But the reality of the situation is akin to the popularity of Miley Cyrus and her ilk and how many of us and our friends relate to it: We might say "who likes that crap? not me, not anyone I know," but there's a reason she's one of the biggest celebrities/pop stars in the world right now--a s-load, and I mean millions, really really really like what she does/stands for. As asinine as that might seem to a lot of us, it is the way most people are. It's also the reason why that as well as The Ticket does in the market, it's but a pimple on an elephant's ass when compared to the likes of KISS fm. In other words, it might seem like a big deal to us, but in the big picture of the industry, in the big picture of what makes real money, it ain't.

Why do I say all this? Because I think it's important to understand the reality of the parameters within which our subject matter stands. And that's why when someone like DA or myself says The Ticket demo is not getting younger (if anything, older) and here's why/here's the actual situation, it's neither good old day syndrome nor is it JV hating, it's merely the way things are/the way things are going. And that way we can discuss the whole thing within a realistic framework. It's also why I claim that once the original band of merry hosts decamp and the JV takes their place (IF the JV in fact are offered such positions--a big IF, by the way)--the ratings, within a year, will reflect the departure of the core demo; we will witness The Ticket become once choice among others; it will no longer be The Little One, the special one.

runitandrunitandrunitandrunitandrunit said...

Sorry, that should have been "one," not "once."

Anonymous said...

I'm loving these last two threads. MTC, Plainsman, and the regulars are rounding back into form. It's been awhile, too long. Great stuff by all.

T4 In Rockwall said...

I've been pretty busy at work and have missed most Ticketstock 2014 anouncements and speak. I've seen around the web that it's at the Irving Convention Center on January the 24th and 25th. Times are a little loose. I can't find anything on theticket.com. Does anyone have a schedule or agenda or have details not been released yet? Also I've never been to either Ticketstock or Summerbash. Do the Timewasters play on both Friday and Saturday or just the first day? P1's fill me in if you have the goods.

Anonymous said...

I thought they were moving it to the Dallas Convention Center? Regardless of where it is, I do know that the Timewasters are playing on Saturday, not Friday. I think that's a smart move. Can't believe it's taken them this long to figure that one out.

KT said...

I feel like I need to intervene real quick. I found out really quickly that one of the misconceptions about The Fan is that they steal everything from The Ticket. That might have happened in the past, but it doesn't happen now. Nobody at The Fan really listens or talks about The Ticket. I was actually quite shocked by that when I moved over there six months ago.

To the guy who commented under the name FAN=FAIL.....I can promise that i'm the only guy at that station who comments on this website from time to time. Nobody over there knows this site exists. Trust me, i've asked. I guess possibly Bascik since he used to work at 1310. I'll ask him tomorrow.

This will all look incredibly defensive, but I'm just saying this because it's really unfair, and I used to be guilty of this. I would pop off and take shots at ESPN and The Fan. As a P1 my entire life, it's built into your head. It's one of the genius things about The Ticket. They create that bunker mentality and that "Everyone else sucks" style of thinking.

There might have been some copying or stealing of bits going on in the past, but not since i've been there. The Ticket, just isn't talked about by any of my co-workers. I think a lot of P1's take shots at The Fan because Ticket hosts do, and that's cool, I get it, I used to do it too, but now I realize I should have given everything a fair shot. If I didn't work there, I would be saying this probably, but I feel pretty good about the lineup we roll out now.

As far as the demographics thing, I know from college a couple years ago, with the smartphone apps available, there were more 20-25 year olds listening to The Ticket, than before. May not matter in the ratings, but as far as feedback, I think the younger college crowd listens and has feedback more often than you think.

I love you all and hope you're doing well. Where's Grubes at?

Anonymous said...

This is gonna stray from the convo, but maybe someone else out there has gone through what I have.

I was born and bred in Dallas. Day 1, P1. Then I moved to Baltimore about 4 years ago. Since then I've streamed The Ticket nearly every single day.

The sports talk there is unbelievably bad. There's several different stations in the area, and all suck. Be thankful for The Ticket. Seriously, either the Fan or 103.3 are light years beyond any station here. You can imagine then how much better The Ticket is.

Here's what I wanted to write about.

Has anyone else out there moved away, kept listening on a regular basis on the innerwebz, and because so have found it difficult not only adjusting to the new environs, but also letting go of Dallas or the metroplex? I sure have. It's like I live in 2 cities at once. As I said, I was born, bred, and lived almost my entire life in Dallas. I know it like the back of my hand. I know its strengths and weaknesses. I also know that aside from the people, it isn't the neatest city there is. There's not a lot to do in the bigger picture. Baltimore is totally the opposite. You have the ocean, you get all 4 seasons, you can hike a mountain or ski within 2 hours drive, you have DC, Philly, and NYC all within a few hours ride by car or even cooler, train. All of that and more. Yet that damn Ticket keeps my heart more than halfway anchored in Dallas. "Oh I can't wait to hear the Concert Calendar to see who is playing at the Barley House" or some such. "Hey that remote is right down the street from my old apartment." Stuff like that and more runs through my head. I keep finding myself wishing I was back in Dallas or better yet that all of Dallas and The Ticket guys were here in Baltimore. Or better yet, Dallas had everything Baltimore does. I know this sounds crazy. But it runs deeper than merely missing the place I've lived most my life. The Ticket has that much of a pull and influence. At least over me.

So anyone else out there having or have had an experience like mine? As an ex Ticket employee used to say to the listening audience, "lemme hear from ya."

James said...

Speaking of demographics, I was listening yesterday around 4:30 or so, and heard a commercial which promoted both Honda and the new Michael Bolton single. Who in the world thought the Ticket would be the right place to advertise for Michael "Why should I change my name? He's the one who sucks" Bolton?

Anonymous said...

KT...Shan admitted to posting here several months ago.

Thanks for stopping by...always enjoy your takes.

Anonymous said...

Hey Anon 12:13 - I'm right there with you. Moved from Dallas to San Fran almost 4 years ago and have never missed a morning of the Musers (thanks to Radioshift recording on my Mac). I usually catch about 1/3 of THL each week, but it is not as much of a priority. It sometimes feels like I've never left . . .

T4 In Rockwall said...

You're right about the Dallas Convention Center. Irving was last year.

Anonymous said...

You seem like a straight up major dude, KT. Of course, here comes the BUT. But you know this site is a Ticket site. We discuss the other stations in their relation to The Ticket. I've no doubt that what you say you believe to be the truth. However it's been well documented that FAN employees have and do read and post here. And look man, I know you're just being a good employee and at the same time being a good guy to your old workmates and us here too. But you can't see the forest for the trees when it comes to The FAN ripping The Ticket. They still do. The Gbag Nation is the worst offender. B&S at least were on The Ticket for a long while. With them I understand it to a certain degree. Like I said, KT, you can't see the forest for the trees. It's understandable.

Anonymous Guy 4 said...

Things have changed at the little ticket, whether it's for good or bad is obviously in the ear of the beholder.

My take is this-
The hosts were "just like us", they liked to hang out with a group of friends that they had common interests with and talk sports, TV, movies, and music. And kick each other in the balls when the opportunity was there. Then...somewhere along the way they became celebrities. At least in their own minds they became celebrities, and at that moment they stopped being like us. They started being the media, living a privileged minor celebrity life with the minor celebrity perks. Rubbing elbows with local sports figures, and getting "head of the line" privileges across the DFW area.

This is what has changed for me, and I guess it can't be helped. They were very good, and with that comes notoriety and then they get special access at the zoo, and never miss a big sports event or concert...and not seeing these things like you or I do. No, they see these things through lenses of privilege and special access. I don't fault the boys for it, it happens, they are successful and enjoying the perks. My point it that it's what has changed the ticket, not the fact that they are older and maturing. But simply that they aren't like us anymore, and it shows.
Most of the time they seem very bored with the mundane everyday sporting events, only taking a keen interest in the biggest of events. They even get details wrong when describing game events.

Anyway, I still listen to the ticket more than any other station, although Gordon is becoming an automatic punchout for me. I like the JV guys, maybe just because it's a change of pace, but I enjoy their bag.

My thoughts, and I fully respect those that don't agree with me.

Anonymous said...

12:13- I haven't live in DFW since 1997. I'm now in New Hampshire (by way of MO, and VA) and listen to the Ticket almost every day. It doesn't make me pine for DFW. But it probably the best talk station in the country.

T4 In Rockwall said...

@ Anon 4 Guy. Well said and I couldn't agree you more. Saying that, I bet the majority of us would change to some degree if this happened to us.

KT said...

Anon 754,

I think the jabs are fine. Nobody really cares or gets butt hurt about that. I'm glad the G-Bag Nation takes occasional jabs. The G-Bag Nation is doing what The Ticket did in the early years. Creating a bunker mentality. Us against the world. They've got an impressive following too. Keep an eye on them.

I take jabs at a few Ticket dudes all the time. It's subtle and flies under the radar usually, but it's all in good fun.

I had no idea that it's been documented that employees at 105.3 read and post here. Nobody i've talked to at the station has even hinted to knowing about this site, although I did see the comment earlier that Shan has claimed to stop by from time to time. I probably missed something though, because I normally stop by once or twice a week just to see if I've missed anything since I don't listen to 1310 much anymore.

Peace!



Anonymous said...

Plus 1, Anon Guy 4.

Well said. Like you I still listen because it's the best thing around. Is it like it used to be? Not even close. I honestly feel for those like Pman who weren't around for the early years. For me everything started getting the way you describe it around the time it seemed like every one and his mother was forming a band. That for me was when I started to notice the we're all in this together vibe was no longer vibing like it used to.

I don't fault them for it either, AG4. Not gonna lie. I really miss those glory days. It was so cool because you felt like they were your buds. If you went to enough remotes odds are you might come away with a real flesh and bones friendship. That's how it worked then.

Still finding it hard to believe were coming up on 20 years. I don't think I've missed more than a week and a half worth of shows of The Musers or The Hardline in all this time. Love it. Love them. They'll all always have a special place in my heart. Those first 5 or so years stand still for me. Nothing like it before, since or ever will be again. For that I'm thankful and for that I give them a pass and am probably more understanding about the way things have become than I most likely would otherwise.

Anyways. Nicely put AG4.

beauty school dropout said...

Say KT. Question for you. Now that a fair amount of time has passed since you moved on from The Ticket; and you seem to have put it and all that it entails behind you, having a different, outside perspective, would you mind shedding a little light on what you think of the structure there and where it's going? I'm not asking you to dish on anyone or to even make a comment about a show's or an individual's worth/performance/direction/etc. I'm only curious to know where you think the station, overall, is heading. Now of course, if you want to throw in some of the other stuff, that would be just fine!

Grubes said...

There's no doubt KT will answer beauty school dropout's question.

The Plainsman said...

Great thread. Thanks to all. Let's keep it going.

Not much reason for FAN guys to drop by. We don't reference them much here, yet. If we covered them like we covered RaGE, they'd be by.

It's so that I wasn't around in the very earliest days of The Ticket. But I just don't get the feeling that the Ticket guys "act like celebrities" other than in pretty innocuous ways as far as the listeners are concerned, and I don't really hear it at all on the air.

Corby is a minor exception, and sometimes Mike, but to the extent it gives them some additional access to What's Going On in the city, I don't find it a negative.

As far as P1 encounters are concerned, this site almost never, ever hears about a host big-timing a P1 at a remote, except when they're preparing for the next segment during a break, which is understandable (interestingly, on the remotes I've attended, the P1 tends not to interrupt the hosts during that time and don't really flock to them any other time). Instead, the accounts we get tend to focus on the hosts' approachability and friendliness at GNOs and Ticketstock and other events, and their appreciation for our patronage.

So my question is: Can anyone be more specific about how the on-air product has changed over the years as it might have been affected by the hosts' popularity?

Again: Great job, Confessors, and Honorary Confessor Kevin Turner.


The Plainsman said...

I'm really enjoying Gordon's Kennedy Week reports during the Observation Deck. Of course, I'm a Oswald-Did-It-Alone guy, so I would enjoy it. I read the Warren Commission report (not the couple-dozen volumes, just the report itself), probably close to two dozen conspiracy books (including, when it was published, Mortal Error, the basis for Bill Kurtis's current show on the possibility that the fatal head shot was accidentally delivered by a Secret Service agent, which is in some ways the most interesting of those books), Posner's "Case Closed," Bugliosi's "Reclaiming History," and one of the first of the conspiracy-debunking books, Moore's "Conspiracy of One." Not to mention the conspiracy and the conspiracy-debunking websites. While I think the conspiracy guys are deeply wrong about the assassination, I do think they have performed a useful function of bringing to the public's attention the reach and activities of some of the "secret government" agencies -- and the maddening unreliability of human memory and testimony.

Kicking myself for not getting to the Trail of Tears contest in time.

KT said...

@Beauty School Dropout

I'll say that I wouldn't have gone to The Fan if I thought I would have had a full-time job at The Ticket soon. People don't leave and I would have been trapped doing weekend tickers. I try to operate on a 2 year plan. If there's no real raise or promotion, then i'll be looking for more. I think that's just a product of being hungry for more and the fear of getting trapped.

I'll pass on the other parts of your question. It was a good question though.

The Plainsman said...

PS: Grumpy conspiracy comments will be taken down, because I'm not fair.

Anonymous Guy 4 said...

P'man -
I don't notice it being on air conversations or "big timing" P1's, it's not that blatant.
The boys just aren't like us anymore, they can't be. I am not faulting them, or holding it against them - as has been pointed out many times on MTC, they are the best thing going and no one even comes close.

Since my dalliance into your little blog (which is great, I really enjoy it), I began to analyze where my own personal displeasure with the current presentation stems from.
I get very aggravated with many of the boys, but always go back. I don't want to blow it up and start over, but I do miss the way that I used to feel like they were just like me.
Sure, it may be that I have changed. But I don't think so, I am just as big of an ass now as I was then.

They are still great, and will be great as long as they are powering up the microphone. Mike is mailing it in, and has been for awhile, but I think we will all miss him once he hangs it up.

I do think that the JV'ers will be able to grab the ball and keep us entertained to the level that we have come to expect.

Long live The Ticket...in some form or another!

Big Jim Jack said...

I visited the Musers remote early this morning. I was flattered that they knew me and called me by name and do that whenever I see them at a function.

Things are not the way they were 20 years ago. A lot of things have changed-much as everything in this life has.

George, Craig and I had a nice talk about 11-22-63 and what I remembered. We also talked about uniforms and hot girls.

I have never been big timed at any function I have attended. I have been with the station for a long time and don't have any plans to change.

Yes, there are some things that don't do it for me on the little Ticket but on the whole, I still enjoy it as much as I did when they first signed on.

I have nothing to say about the other sports stations because I do not listen to them.

The current JV team does a solid job and will be able to fill in once the front liners decide to hang it up.

Bog Jim Jack

p Dub said...

Damn, I love this thread!

One thing I've learned from reading this site is that the P1 comes in many shapes and sizes. I'm under 30. My dad started listening in '95, and I learned about the little Ticket from him. I know about the Overcusser because of this man. Now, he's in his sixties, still loves sports and HSOs just as much as ever, but yet he claims that he doesn't have the patience for all the jack assery of 1310 anymore.

That's one example of how stuff changes over twenty years. That was as snarky as I'll get.

The ticket has created its own culture that transcends age, ethnicity, or whatever gizmo you consume sports talk through.

That culture has been built brick by brick over twenty long years. The D1P1s are part of it and second generation p1's like me are part it.

THL and Musers began it, someone will continue it, and probably after we're all dead, someone will end it.

I found this blog in part, because several of my twenty something friends -- who tune in regularly -- don't want to constantly discuss the minutiae that usually gets some expert dissection here.

I agree that this blog skews a bit old. I also think it skews a bit higher education, and it skews TicketNerd, enthusiast, slightly obsessive, whatever. That's why I love it.

I'm a dude that grew up on Stone's 'JFK'; I loved to believe all of the conspiracies theories. I haven't researched the subject enough to speak on it myself; however, Gordon (and Pman and those like them) have me feeling pretty confident in this lone gunman theory. Gordon has probably taught me more about the subject than anyone else.

Anyway, this site is awesome. It's living proof that the P1 is diverse creature indeed and its influence is vast.

Stay Hard ladies and gents

Shaggy said...

White Elephant drawing going on right now guys.

Shaggy said...

530-10 host George
530-10 host Rich
530-10 yuck monkey Norm
530-10 tickers Sean

10-12 host Ty
10-3 tickers Donovan

12-3 host Bob
12-3 host Corby

3-7 host Mike
3-7 host Gordon
3-7 yuck monkey Craig
3-7 tickers Dan

Anonymous said...

Why does Cat make the drawing more asinine with each passing year? I'd rather have the round table segments proper. Instead we get at least 2 to 3 wasted ones. Put slots in a hat. Put numbers in a hat. Draw the numbers to determine the order of drawing slots. Draw slots. Done. One segment. No confusion.

Shaggy said...

It's more fun this way--especially since this is how a white elephant drawing actually works. They did it like this last year too.

Tomfoolery said...

Did they ever say what date white elephant is?

Brad Gilbert said...

Sorry I am late to this game. MTC allowed me to make a post a while about those who moved away but still listen via stream/apps. I admit that I got spoiled and, at that time, couldn't stomach the Detroit sports talk. Now, in NE AR, it's only worse. My wife still gives me a hard time when she hears it playing on my phone and they are giving a DFW traffic report.

p Dub said...

Both afternoon White Elephant lineups look deliciously enticing.

WTDS will be some manic grace. I remember a few years ago, Gordon kept whipping Bob about his wiener vis a vis circumcision. Plus Sean's question to Rick Carlisle and Carlisle's immortal, "No"

I wouldn't welcome that chaos on a daily basis, but like an acid trip with Doyle King, it's quite refreshing once in a while.

I'd like to see the producers included, as well as the interns. Dan is my leader, but I would wear a Daisy Duke outfit to hear about him making multiple Chipotle runs.

The Plainsman said...

So how did Mike, possibly abetted by Gordon, job the White Elephant selection (i.e., cheat, as was reported during the 5:30 Muser segment this morning)?

Shaggy said...

PMan,

a timeslot could be stolen twice before it was "Frozen" and couldn't be taken by another person. Cat was writing Frozen on the cards when they became frozen and unstealable. Mike wrote Frozen on his own card and maintained he did nothing of the sort.

Dan said...

They said that it would be on December 4th.

Anonymous said...

I find it annoying when the hosts complain about the shift that they get. It's for one day! They act like they are stuck with that shift for the rest of time. I don't go into work until 10am everyday, but if I had to come in at 6am one day out of the entire year, I would do it with a smile on my face. A bunch of spoiled people if you ask me.

Arlington P1 said...

I've also really enjoyed Gordo's O-deck Kennedy presentation this week. His quick, concise delivery of the facts, with little embellishment (and no shtick) is a welcome change of pace. Not that I dislike shtick...I just appreciate when he shows his serious, intelligent side.

It's just one more thing that makes me appreciate what we have with the lil Ticket.

T4 In Rockwall said...

@ the last Anon...Ehhhh. They're just bemoaning like they always do. That's what makes them like us. We bitch about things all the time at work. If you don't, you don't have a normal job. Ours is just not on the air at the time.

@ pDub, dude, you sound like someone who's been listening a long time, and if I remember correct it hasn't been but a couple of years. It's nice to hear your banter on here. A little bit of a Gordo atmosphere. I like it.

BTW, Gordo was killing it last night at the GNO. I was driving home and laughing hysterically a couple of time and I wasn't drinking. Poor Donnie just doesn't have it. I think he has a small part of the Ticket in him, but it's like he tries too hard most times.

Anyway Pman, when the times appropriate, please start up a Ticketstock thread. Like I said previously, I haven't been to such an event and would like to see comments on those who have and what to expect coming from the P1. We hear it from the hosts throughout the next week, but I want a first hand perspective. I'm getting a group of 5 or 6 of guys and we're gonna all go for the first time...looking forward to it.

T4 In Rockwall said...

@ Arlington P1. I never realized Gordo was such an encyclopedia of knowledge about the entire JFK experience. In the past, he's just seemed like a LHO nut, but he has been awesome this week. The whole station has in fact with the interviews, Craig's dad, etc. If anyone's a conspiracy theorist type, Gordo is very convincing that LHO acted alone. Now why he did it is another subject.

Shaggy said...

Boy, John Fahey sure has a tough time getting the words to come out of his mouth...

The Plainsman said...

Shaggy: Once in awhile, Fahey will stumble. In general, though, I like him. Nice, low-key delivery.

The Plainsman said...

Agree with commenters: The Ticket has done a really nice job with Kennedy Week. Gordon, Musers show, yesterday's Hardline -- some very interesting stuff.

Anonymous said...

No Orphanage again today.

Anonymous said...

If The Orphanage is still around past 1/1/14, I'll be very surprised. I like the show. Pman likes the show. A lot of us like it. It's the end of the line, last gasp for what was once the most insane, smart, shocking, insightful, and compelling Ticket program: The Rant. Davy is "all" that's left of that legacy. I hate to but have to admit that The Orphanage has mostly run its course. Yes it still has its moments of greatness. Rare as they are--nearly as rare as an actual airing of an Orphanage show these past several months. I do believe it's time to give the precious airtime over to a JV team. Let's see if we have another MaSS or CdS or SJ in the making. I absolutely love Davy and Danny. Davy will forever be to me Gen X Davy Lane. And Danny is Danny. The cool guy that everyone wants to have as a best bud. But as an old PD used to say "It's time, buddy, it's time." That's the Wild Irish Laddy for those who don't know to whom I'm referring.

Fact is, the show airs less and less. Danny has is fingers in about a dozen pies. Davy has a wife, kids, a mortgage, and a full time gig outside The Ticket that pays the bills. What's more is that when they do make it on the air, it just isn't that good anymore. It has its moments of greatness still, like I said, but mostly it's an unprepared mess that is more lazy than fly by the seat of your pants. The latter can evince radio gold, the former not so much. Plus, the "We don't give a s, we suck, the show sucks" bit is really played out and dated.

So if you're out there Cat and/or Rich, give those two hours to some JV guys and let's see what they got. Let The Orphanage go out with some semblance of what passes for grace. A new leaf needs to be turned over. It's time, buddy. It's time.

blergoyen said...

Major "knowing nod" goes out to the drunk who called in to the Norm/Donnie post-game tonight and told the guys he suffers from Ankylosing Spondylitis.

The Plainsman said...

Significant portion of Shake Joint was knocked off 96.7. Spanish-language broadcast.

An indispensible element of Cirque du Sirois is >1 Sirois.

Gopher said...

Just remember folks FM listening can be very dependent on weather conditions. Cold fronts, temperature inversions, fog, strong wind can and will have an effect on the FM signal. Usually a couple of hours and some sun shine will usually cure the problem.

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