Monday, March 5, 2012

A Fairly Non-S STD, Followed by a Blazing HSO

The Non-S STD* is this:

The Musers to a smallish extent, and The Hardline, especially Corby, to a much larger extent (or, as Corby might put it, to the largest extent I have ever, ever seen in the history of time), expressed the view that the revelation that the Saints were paying players for inflicting hard hits, more for injuries, more for stretcher casualties, is not such a big deal.  Something that, apparently, everyone knew or must have known or probably knew, and it happens all the time, and across the league.

I'd never before heard that any team, much less many teams, compensated players for causing injury.  I certainly never heard it on The Ticket.  I'm wondering then, why it is such a gigantic story now, and why those who are shrugging their shoulders over it happening on The Little One have never let us in on it.  I'm not saying Corby or anyone else had knowledge of Greg Williams's actions or should have been compelled to report on particular verified instances of pay-for-injury -- I'm saying that if the general practice were widespread and known or even reasonably believed by Our Heroes, they might have opined on it somewhere along the line.

Conclusion:  This may be an instance of ubercoolness by those Heroes of ours, not wanting to seem shocked by the things that are shocking to Those of Us Not in The Know.

If not:  What other amazingly scandalous but unreported things about sports do you suspect that you're not telling us?

*For new Confessors:  STD = Scorching Ticket Disquisition


The blazing HSO is this:

The intentional causing of injury to another is a crime.  Not just hard hits during a sporting event, but any kind of battery with the intent to injure.  Intent being the difference between a crime and injury inflicted in the normal course.

I know Roger Goodell is going to come down on the Saints and maybe other of Williams's stops like a ton of bricks, and that's fine, I hope the Saints and responsible persons, including Sean Payton, get flayed, and where I don't have a dog in the hunt I sentimentally root for the Saints.

Wikipedia reports that since 1969, there have been 12 instances of criminal prosecution for injuries intentionally inflicted during hockey games, almost all of them in Canada.  Many if not most of them resulted in acquittals or minor punishment.  I'm suspecting that this is because in many cases, the difficulty in proving intent is key, and there may even be some instances of provocation by the injured.   And fighting is an expected commonplace in the NHL

What is being charged now in the NFL goes way beyond this.   This isn't "heat of battle" violence, this isn't injuries inflicted during a donnybrook, this is premeditated battery.  The scheme of promising in advance to pay for it on completion makes it particularly heinous, just as murder for hire is always first-degree murder -- not just manslaughter. 

I'm not a criminal lawyer or expert on the topic, but it's my impression that there are two things that make crimes hard to charge and prove, other than the actual commission of the mayhem in question:  the difficulty of proving intent, and the reasonable doubt standard.  It's what kept guys like Jack Tatum and Conrad Dobler out of prison. 

But if today's accounts are to be credited, both intent and proof beyond a reasonable doubt would be a cinch in this case.

And to this, you can add the additional aggravating circumstances of conspiracy. 

Sporting fields, and the games held there, are not beyond the jurisdiction of civil authority.

So if I were District Attorney Leon A. Cannizzaro, District Attorney for Orleans Parish -- and, I suppose, if I didn't care about being re-elected -- I'd be seeking indictments against some coaches and players and coaches, and putting some of them the hell away.

Dinner is served. 

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Anonymous said...

This has been well known by pretty much everyone I thought. Not necessarily with a coach being a ring leader but players have been doing this stuff for a long time. The NFL turned a blind eye to it, but incidents of players doing this type of thing has been publicly reported as early as 2007. The NFL knew about it and chose not do discipline anyone.

Like most cases, an example has to be made and Greggo is the example here.

Anonymous said...

To the first part: Anytime there is some revelatory sports news item (especially when it's local) you'll hear every show say to the effect one of two things: (i) "We knew about this X amount of time prior to it being leaked to the public [e.g., the latest Josh Hamilton relapse], or (ii) "We've heard rumors of this for awhile now." In other words, they know more than they talk about. And in other, other words, they aren't into full-disclosure as they'd like us to believe. In fact, they're more like ESPN in that regard than you'd think. I'm not saying that I don't understand why they keep mum. I'm only saying that The Little One isn't as loosey-goosey as advertised.

As to the second: I'll just say this: Goodell decided that the Patriots blatant cheating--cheating that directly affected Super Bowl outcomes, notice the plural--only merited a b.s. fine. Don't count on him to put the hammer down the feel-good team that "rescued" New Orleans.

James said...

It's funny how the something can go on for years and then one day, the press or powers that be start to make a big deal of it. I see this as having a timely parallel in the story of Rush Limbaugh. Rush says outrageous rude stuff all the time. But for some reason, his latest rudeness got emphasized more than his previous years of rudeness. Why does this happen? I dunno. But like bounties, it's been going on for years. Then one day, people decide it's important.

Little Weak Jeremy said...

Whether or not the hosts knew about it, it seems absolutely clear that everyone in the playing and coaching ranks has not only been exposed to, but grown up in this way of doing things. Everyone on the field knew exactly what they were signing up for.

East Texas P1 said...

ESPN radio has had several professional football players on the past several days that have downplayed the "effect" of the bounty.

Each has stressed that it was for legal hits only and was basically a pot, or pool, that defensive players pitched into before the game. It is a way of "counting coup" (Google it).

Each player (that I have heard)has emphasized that players go 100% the whole game. So the intent of the bounty, or pool, is/was not to play dirty but to play hard.

I agree the coach should not have been involved and this particular instance may have stretched the boundaries due to the amount of money that has been reported, $50K.

My opinion is that Goodell is going to over-react to a situation that is not as egregious as it may first seem

T4 In Rockwall said...

The Hardline was just talking about the pay for hits story and the way Corby was portraying it is why I can't bear to listen to him sometimes. He was saying basically that he wouldn't encourage his kids to play and that there are some players who don't suffer from the long term affects of the abuse by the hits...but that he wouldn't change a thing about it. He is so pompous, high and mighty, I'm better than you. It's like back in the gladiator days of people watching the entertainment, but not caring who dies in the process. That's how Corby protrayed himself in that past segment. He's always came across that way, and sometimes Danny plays into it, but alot of times Danny will call him out on it, even though this time it didn't go down that route. Sorry for the rant, just a reason why I wish there was someone else who would replace Corby on The Hardline.

Anonymous said...

Corby's a grad-a doucher, plain and simple. He talks about things he has little knowledge of as if he's an expert. As long as Corby "feels" that this is the way something is, then that's the way it is. And you're an idiot if you think differently (even if you actually know about the subject at hand, while he doesn't). Never get your hopes up, T4, because Mr. Superlative isn't going anywhere. The only way he goes is if he screws up in a Bacsik-like fashion.

Anonymous said...

I for one find the Hardline's music segments to be far too numerous and increasingly awful. The segment on the Radiohead concert yesterday was absolutely asinine. They speak as if they were analyzing Bach's cantatas while at the same time marveling over Eric Dolphy's improvisational abilities. And they do this with almost every musical act they speak on. At times, I do get the sense that Rhynes understands this and tries to bring the conversation back down to earth. But many times, like he so often does, he follows Corby and Danny's lead.

I have no dog in the hunt as far as liking or disliking that band. I'd be making the same comment even if they were discussing my favorite band. I just find these segments ridiculous and uninteresting. Which is saying something, for me, because there was a time when I relished a good Hardline music roundtable.

Tangent said...

I must concur with T4 and anon on the subject of Corby. He is sometimes a showboat, and has overbearing tendencies far too often for my tastes. It reminds me of the time I was searching the internets for a nice clean version of Adam Clayton's bass solo in Gloria only to find Bono showboating with improvised lyrics over the top of it every time. Corby, let the game come to you every once in a while.

Anonymous said...

Bounties are nothing new. For some context read about the Cowboys and Eagles games in 89...The Bounty Bowl


Blergoyen said...

@ T4 - don't even get me started on corby. the interesting thing about him is he's so sure of his opinions and yet has absolutely no confidence in them whatsoever (hence the superlatives as anon mentioned). He consistently overstates his initial opinion hoping he'll intimidate people out of debating that opinion because he knows he's too lazy to research supporting evidence for the opinion. You can almost hear him turn his head to rhynes looking for approval when he makes statements about non-gossip -related baseball. Any entertainer he favors is absolutely a super-genius, greatest actor of our generation with an estimated net worth of AT LEAST $100B. And those statements are almost never supported with research.

Don't forget how corbett lost his fecal matter when TC called him a little late to prank him, and corby felt obliged to remind TC that his employee grade level should never contact the main host of one of the major ticket shows - not even the one with the shortest tenure by 11 years or so. Kind of like Madonna demanding no interns look her in the eye when she goes on Letterman, or whatever that story is.

The one compliment I have for corby is that he has an uncanny ability to endear himself to people with money an influence. It would appear all his friends from college (that he still talks to) were from wealthy families. He dated, but didn't have the self esteem to marry an oil baroness. He was smart enough to play the "over-cussing" nephew to rhynes' "drunk/dirty" uncle role, and rhynes ate it up like implants on a 19yo Tri Delt. I would guestimate that Rhynes was the major influence in who filled the void after Greggo was fired.

Oh, and I don't think the bounty stuff is as big a deal as many people do.

Anonymous said...

Corby is the best storyteller on the station.

Calling people at 1AM because you aren't creative enough to come up with your own bit is worse than anything Corby has ever done in his career.

He may be a doucher but he is a talented guy and we would miss him if he was gone.

T4 In Rockwall said...

I'm sure he would be missed if he were gone, but I just think his role is too big on The Hardline. He was perfect as the Yuck Monkey. Since Greggo left, I have turned a 180° turn on Danny in Lake Highlands. He used to be such a dark cloud all of the time, but now he's why I listen to The Hardline (are you reading this Danny?). He has spot on humor when the situation calls for it, and like I said earlier, he keeps Corbles in his place sometimes. I still am deeply hurt that he unfriended me on Facebook a couple of years back...just kidding.'ve got to give it to Rhyner for being able to still be as involved in the show, given that Corby can be a beating.

ap said...

A different angle on the whole bounty thing. My stance is that because Greggo is a coach and carried this system with him, then yeah, he deserves whatever's coming to him, especially in the wake of recent player safety initiatives. Same with the GM who failed to stop things after being instructed to do so after the owner, and Payton will have to take a hit as well seeing as how he's the top of the food chain. Yes, it probably happens in most locker rooms, and yes, there is a fine line between a rewarding a good hit and distributing a bounty for borderline stuff, but taking action based on the appearance of impropriety is the NFL's main motive here.

My odd take on the situation though is that Goodell may be privately happy that this is coming to light. It seems like the NFL is on the verge of having their pants sued off by retired players who feel that the league 'failed to protect their best interests' (several lawsuits are currently pending if I'm not mistaken). Goodell can turn right around to the player's association and union and say "Hey, it was *you* guys who were trying to injure each other, despite the rules *we* put in place to protect you." He can even cite the recent comments of guys like Darren Woodson when the family of guys like Darrell Jackson sue the NFL in a few years (google those two names together, and add the word seizure for even more context). Every retired player who comes out and admits to such an extra-curricular system is hurting this cause. Also, there are salary cap and even tax ramifications at work here - think the IRS would be interested to learn that tens of thousands of dollars were being paid out without being taxed?

East Texas P1 said...

Corby had a great segment yesterday talking about the Harlem Globetrotters playing the Lakers in the late '40's.

Props, kudos and congratulations to the intern who researched and wrote this.

Anonymous said...

To me this whole bounty thing is no different than steroid use in baseball. Meaning, MLB knew about it and looked the other way for years; only to "get tough" after it came to light to the general public. The same thing applies here with the NFL. A lot of "Grrrrrr...we're not going to stand for this!" CYA, bull-poopy.

Anonymous said...

Ugh. Yet ANOTHER Hardline music segment. Good old Bruce Springsteen. The man whose career has so greatly benefited from corporate America rails against it. And my word, his voice is so falsely inflected and twanged now, that he sounds like a parody of himself. At least Danny has the stones to say what that crap is: music thrown together as an excuse to have his lyrics/message heard.

Anonymous said...

Am I the only one who would love to see the Hardline comprised solely of Mike and Danny? Barring some sort of Corby meltdown the likes of Bacsik, I know it ain't gonna happen. But a P1 can dream.

East Texas P1 said...

I have to go eat now.

potato, potato, potato