Monday, March 4, 2013

OPEN THREAD: Them Changes

Man, I had another article started, but I don't want to hex the mojo, know what I mean?

I don't have any new thoughts to share about Ben & Skin's contract situation.  I don't have any  new thoughts to share about the predicted demise of RaGE.  No new musings on the peripatetic Greggo.  Other than thinking that the half-hour I spent listening to the G-Bag Nation a few weeks ago was my most painful aural experience since they stopped using chalk on chalkboards, I don't have much to say about The Fan's overall presentation.  Since it is not possible for me to care less about ESPN, none of its changes, including Ben & Skin's departure, are quickening my pulse.  Nope, can't think of anything new to say about these things.

But I'll bet you can.

I'll get you started and I'm going to leave this thread up for a few days.  I think the rumblings are going to start getting closer to the surface.

I thought Ben & Skin were OK on The Ticket, and I know a lot of Confessors like them a lot.  I regret to say I don't think I heard more than ten minutes of their show on ESPN -- when I had discretionary radio time midday, I was building up my BaD listening hours.  My problem with them at the time was that while they were both really likable guys and the show was real sportsy, and they had a great intro, they spent way too much time commenting ironically on their own commentary, frequently getting stuck in a spiral of self-reference that brought the proceedings to a halt.  And the show suffered from what I came to call Ben & Skin Disease -- hosts that sound too much alike, a malady that I'm only now starting to get over on Cirque.  I am certain that a daily show probably required a more, shall we say, direct approach to broadcasting and if they pop up somewhere I'll be tuning in for a shakedown cruise.

Which I have selected as the hook for this open thread.

A commenter on the last thread gave a very nice multi-part analysis on why he thinks RaGE may be in the decline-and-fall mode, and there was a report that The Hardline had stated in terms that The Fan was looking for a new afternoon drive show.  And there has been some suggestion in these pages that that show might feature Messrs. Rogers and Wade.

Now, as I said a bit ago, my recent speculations have crashed and burned, so I'm not predicting that this hypothetical will take place.  But I will ask you to assume that Ben & Skin replace RaGE and compete against the last hour of BaD, WTDS, and all of The Hardline (if they time the shows at The Fan as they do now).

Do you think you might switch your allegiance from The Hardline (or 2-3 BaD) to Ben & Skin even after the initial curiosity wore off?  Of course, we don't know what a Ben & Skin show on The Fan would consist of, but assuming that you are somewhat favorably disposed to B&S, do you think they would give The Hardline a run for its money?

OK, what if they kept Sybil?


*     *     *
Twitter: @Plainsman1310


Anonymous said...

RAGE is the -ONLY- reason I listen to the Fan. The Hard Line has sucked ever since Greggo left. If RAGE is replaced by Ben & Skin, I'll just listen to music.

And, NO, I'm not giving up an hour of Bad Radio to listen to Ben & Skin.

Steve said...

Not only would I not switch from BaD/Hardline to Ben and Skin, I'd stop listening to The Fan during Ticket commercials as I do now (for RaGE obviously). You described Ben and Skin perfectly, Plainsman. Nothing has changed.

Anonymous said...

You must be a plant because everybody knows the hardline is awesome!

cactusflinthead said...

Yeah, I heard that comment on the Hardline today. I mostly attributed it to a standard dig at them, particularly in regards to the recent drama. But, who knows? Greggo might flip out any old time or blow a gasket on his tummy baffle and then where would we all be? Baby arm, that's where.

Count me among those that liked Ben and Skin on the weekend shows of the littlest of Tickets. When Ben was scared of spiders and Skin talked about dogs as much as basketball. They got on the network and got all self-promoting and it just sucked mostly. I liked Elf too. He needed Studer. Steadying influence. Slater? If I hear another syllable out of that chick it will be about ten too many. I cannot listen. I tried. I might make it five seconds of her grating nonsense before I punch out somewhereanywhere.

ahhh who the hell knows? I just want something reasonable to listen to when Bob or Dan, usually Dan, gets bogged down into something I could not care less about or Norm goes off on one of his rants I again do not give a shit about that some alternative ought to be out there. It is not there. Ben und Skin stank upon the radiowaves on ESPN. Did Ben get all religious recently? or was he always that
Spittle needs to bite the bullet and realize men 25-54 do not like to hear a whole heckuva lot from 99.5% of women on their sports radio. We have to listen to females voices in our ears constantly. About all I want to hear from my radio that has a female voice attached to it is a song, weather, traffic or some damn commercial that I can ignore. I do NOT want to hear a chick talking to some drunk ass fool or hear her expound upon Elvis' new tattoo. I used to kind of like the Little Ball of Hate of Jenn Floyd. I am willing to grant some exemptions to the clubhouse of sports, some chicks do get it. The two we are stuck with on the radio do NOT.

meh, I don't know. rambling

I swear to God the Captcha had an umlaut or however you spell that damn grammatical German@! thingamabob over a u! Ok dammit how do I do that!?

So Anonymous said...

some of u in this post and the last 1 r getting warm on some things that could happen while others r predictablly grasping at straws. connect the dots and the radio hosts that have both failed and those that have relativelly flourished and then use reasoning 2 see how those dots may be moved around as if the sports radio landscape was a monopoly board with many properties up 4 sale.

Steve said...


I always got the impression (even when they were on the ticket) that Ben was pretty religious. He always seemed kind of up tight to me (which, admittedly doesn't necessarily indicate anything about how religious he is, although it probably makes it more likely), which kind of bugged me since it's not what I expect out of ticket hosts.

Anonymous said...

THL may have been taking a dig, but I believe it was an educated dig. I remember Gordon taking a subtle shot at Josh Lewin after the Rangers let him go. The other two said they liked Josh and Gordon said he liked him too, unless he is taking food out of their mouths. It was right before he started on the fan. They know exactly what is going on with the other stations.

Anonymous said...

Anyone else having issues withe the TuneIn stream this morning? I'm resorting to I heart but NEED my DVR capability!

Anonymous said...

How about Jake-Z coming to prominence with his own show. The dude is intelligent and fun. He is a future player on the Little Ticket.

Shaggy said...

Yeah, TuneIn stopped working last night. Not sure if the URL changed or what.

Anonymous said...

I would give Ben & Skin and chance if they where to replace Rage on the Fan for afternoon drive. Nothing can be worse than Rage.

James said...

I've never liked Ben and Skin. I don't hate them. They aren't irritating. They just aren't interesting. I guess I could try to pin down reasons, such as, as you pointed out, the fact that their voices aren't distinctive. Or that they talk about basketball too much for me, a non-basketball fan.
But just as I can't tell you why I like mustard and hate mayo, I can't properly articulate why I don't like to listen to Rogers and Wade. I just don't.

The Plainsman said...

I am mildly surprised at the comments so far, even though I myself would almost certainly continue to be a near-100% Hardline listener.

But it seemed like over the last couple of months that we would get comment after comment after comment from Confessors who said they had stopped listening to The Hardline, or would do so if The Fan (or ESPN) put up any kind of credible competition, and I would think that Ben & Skin might well qualify. They didn't set the world on fire with their ratings at ESPN, but it seemed to be a credible show with low negatives, a measure where RaGE frequently pegged the needle. So I guess I expected to see more Confessors saying that they'd give B&S a real shot if up against The Hardline.

Because of my own preferences, I'm glad to see some love for The Hardline here -- just a little surprised.

Well, this thread has only been up a few hours; we'll see.

The Plainsman said...

I think it's faintly amusing to hear Jake, on the promos for The Shake Joint subbing for Norm, referring to it as "the newest show on The Ticket." Well, I guess it is! And holding its own rather smartly, I would judge.

The Plainsman said...

Remind me to say something about Junior's reaction to George's Brittney Griner talk during the 5:30 segment this morning.

Anonymous said...

I know some others were having issues with the link this morning, this is the one I am using for TuneIn Radio on Android and it was working this morning.

Dan's Beach Towel said...

9:22am Anon-

Thank you!

That link works on my iPhone.
I appreciate ya pal!!

Anonymous said...

Anyone catch TC's UNBELIEVABLE meltdown on the top 10 last night? Confirms everything I've ever said about him.

Anonymous said...

Anon 12:46

I missed it, what happened?

duckandcover said...

If you ever check out the other two stations, you'll notice that the local shows with younger hosts all try and emulate Ben and Skin. Which, in my opinion, isn't a good thing. I like both guys, but like many others have said: the endless self-references quickly become annoying and are best left for their private lives. Their Mavs talk is excellent, their Ranger and Cowboy points are usually good too. But everything else ranges from the pedestrian to the annoying (self references). If they do take over RaGE's spot, I'll give them a listen. It will give me a reason to flip the dial between THL commercial breaks.

Notice I did not say that I'll be turning away from THL. While B&S is better than RaGE (hell, anything is better than RaGE), they do not represent a real competitor/threat to THL. (Which, sadly, becomes less compelling/more stale of a listen with each passing day.) I've come to the conclusion that the only show that could give THL a run for their money is one that is comprised of current Ticket hosts. Namely, BaD or Gordon. This scenario of course would most likely come to fruition by either BaD or Gordon being money and everything else whipped by CBS or ESPN (or even a very well monied startup station). Until/unless that happens, there is nothing that will challenge, much less unseat, THL. And that's too bad for us listeners. Real competition in radio can be exciting. It brings out the best (and in some cases the worst) in the stations and their talent.

As an aside: Though it hasn't happened yet, all indicators point towards my RaGE prediction (timing and all else) being dead on. IF it does go down, well, every dog has his day. In other words, don't ask me for betting or stock tips!

BBQ said...

I agree with you about B&S. And yeah, I've noticed as well that shows like K&C Masterpiece and couple of the weekend ESPN locals sound as if they're imitation B&S.

I can't see either BaD or Gordo leaving The Ticket for a competitor. I think the possibility of that ship sailed out to sea long ago. Gordo will either move on to something else and BaD will leave when either they're let go or Bob takes a national network job or Razor's color job.

My take is that The Hardline -while I agree with you that it's diluted- will remain #1 until Mike decides to call it a day. And when he does, it'll be because either he sees the writing on the wall and wants to get out while the getting's good, or (and I hope this doesn't happen) due to health issues. Once he does leave, for whatever reason, that'll be the end of the show, and most likely by that time the end of the station as we've come to know and love it.

Anonymous said...

Totally disagree that THL is stale or not good anymore. I think most have Good Ole Day syndrome on this. I especially like that Danny is more and more involved with every segment and Jake Z jumps in from time to time with intellectual yet amusing quips.

The Plainsman said...

I heard most of BaD's replay of TC's agonizing problems on last night's Top 10. In short, the equipment was not playing what he was expecting it to play and, I assume, he had taken the correct steps to make it play. He tried repeatedly, the wrong stuff would play, he tried to vamp while he was frantically trying to get the system to behave, and, finally, going to a break. His misery was extended for quite some time. I don't know what happened after the break.

Although TC took the predictable dose of nutkicking from BaD, I found myself strongly sympathizing with him. I don't know nothin' 'bout producing or running a board or dealing with the hardware Top 10 guys have to deal with, but it is pretty clear -- and Jake supported this in his commentary -- this was a hardware/software issue, almost certainly not a TC issue. Both TC's remarks and Jake's commentary strongly indicated that this was a result of -- you guessed it, new Victory equipment that still isn't working correctly, and hasn't been in the year since launch.

So TC -- hardly seems fair that your name will be associated with this e-brake instead of those of the miscreant(s) likely primarily responsible. But those are the breaks (e).

Shaggy said...

TC was getting nut-kicked for his running commentary of the situation and his attempts to fix it, rather than going straight to a break or sticking in a Rotten Radio CD. He was totally incapable of calling an audible because he was so afraid of having extra time or not getting to Farrell on time.

The Plainsman said...

I do NOT question the sincerity of the Confessors who have reported that they have come to dislike The Hardline, or who think that Corby Sux, or that Mike is on cruise control. The record is not completely devoid of evidence of a lackadaisical approach to show prep, Corby's hyperbolic speech patterns, and other oft-heard complaints.

But the show has done nothing but get more popular since Greg was invited to continue his career elsewhere. The show is, in my judgment, not worse, and in fact, not bad. In fact, it's good. I listen as often and for as long as I can. And I enjoy it as much as I ever have.

I can understand where there may be days or segments where a listener would be irritated enough to swear to himself, or to us, that he's done with THL. And be perfectly truthful about that testimony when he issues it.

But I'm guessing that a lot of those guys, when they find themselves on the road between 3:30 and 7, reconsider that position and tune back in. And maybe come back here to complain some more, which is perfectly OK. But the point is -- it's hard to kick the Crackline, and whatever heartfelt conclusions some of our readers come to, in the end they don't want to miss out on what's great about the show, and, perhaps reluctantly, but inevitably, they punch back in.

The Plainsman said...

Shaggy, you're not wrong about the gist of some of the nk. But the point is that TC shouldn't have had that happen to him in the first place. Can you imagine the reaction of Dan, Bob, Gordon, any host, if they planned a segment around a replay and it brought forth some of the chaos that TC was dealing with? No -- it would be on the next E-Brake presentation, probably with multiple dumps, and it would win.

OK, so maybe in the future TC will toss a couple of Race Weeks or a CD of Karasik Klassiks into his backpack. But being concerned about nailing the peg for a network-fed show doesn't seem to me to be a silly reaction.

Anonymous said...

@7:12 I for one am a D1P1 and I KNOW that THL has become stale. It's not good old day syndrome. By the way when did you start listening? Anyway it's not good old day syndrome, it's called my eye balls aren't fooling me, this show's become lazy, totally predictable, and boring. I'm glad you think it's great, but I think more people on this forum would disagree with you than agree. If what Jake Z says passes for intellectual in your book, more power to you. I think Jake has something, but intellectual firepower ain't a part of it. Ya I know he's got a Masters. I know because he's only mentioned it about 4 times since last Sunday.

slinky said...

Yeah, THL does pretty much suck these days. There is a few good moments, but like you say, pretty stale. Does anyone else think that Danny gets frustrated with Corby? Some one said they didn't find Ben & Skin interesting. I agree, but also think the same of Corby. The fact that he is somewhat the main linchpin is kind of odd.

Anonymous Ron said...

I think the upgrading of Corby to co-host is the big difference. Not because of his ability (or lack thereof) but because the show now misses a yuck monkey. Corby's bits have been replaced by music segments, or so it seems. The only time we get to see Corby in his element anymore is when the show goes on the road.

On the plus side of the ledger, we have more contribution from Danny. Enjoy that while you can.

The Plainsman said...

@712 and @Slinky: Fair enough, you don't care so much for The Hardline. Got no issue with that.

But what I want to know is whether you feel that you would likely switch your PM drive allegiance to Ben & Skin if they put on a credible show of their own?

What I'm trying to get at here is how credible is the argument frequently seen in these pages that "the only reason THL is number one is because they don't have any competition." As things stand now, I would agree that GAC and RaGE are very weak contestants.

But what if The Fan puts up something that a lot of P1's have liked in the past when it was on Saturdays? Ben & Skin have their own issues, but their show isn't a flailing embarrassment like RaGE frequently (not always) is, or just flat-out unlistenable (GAC).

So if Ben & Skin pop up on PM drive on The Fan doing the same kind of show they're doing now, would you migrate?

The Plainsman said...

I assume we all heard The Musers' e-brake this morning with -- you guessed it, failed equipment that refused to play back yesterday's 8:40 Michael Irvin/Billy Tubbs bit. It eventually got on the air, but I'm not sure whether it came through the board or whether Gordon had another source for it that he quickly wired up. George once again sarcastically referenced the "state of the art equipment that works all the time," OWTTE. I was praying for a complete meltdown just to hear Craig calmly eviscerating the CTO, but after some clanking around, the bit finally emerged.

It will be innnarestin to see whether TC's AND The Musers' tech problems both make the E-Brake this week. Perhaps Norm or BaD will have one -- they won't sound as civilized as Craig and George in reacting -- and we can make it a Botched-Move-to-Victory hat trick.

Shaggy said...

"Remind me to say something about Junior's reaction to George's Brittney Griner talk during the 5:30 segment this morning"


Anonymous said...

I never thought it was TC's fault that the audio/production malfunctioned. It was how he dealt with it that was an absolute embarassment, and typical of everything he's proved in the past. Malfunctions happen to everyone in this business, what matters is how you handle it. He's 100% incapable of graduating past top 10. Completely inarticulate, doesn't know how to drive a segment, got NOTHIN. I don't care if he's likeable, he ain't compelling.

and "oh brilliant" duckandcover, i don't know ANYONe who has conciously attempted to style their show after B&S, noone.

Hardline is still great

blergoyen said...

I was out of town last week, and after returning over the weekend, the only shows I looked forward to listening to on Monday were The Musers and BaDd. I managed to tune in to THL on Tuesday and happened upon an ENTIRE segment on a new Tom Petty tribute band. And yes I am painfully aware of Mike's connection. It's got to be a game they play to see how stupid the listener really is (see intentional Rolling Stones segments).

As I mentioned in a comment to a blog post a year or so back, Ben and Skin are like the Jay and Silent Bob of Dallas Radio. They think they're cool, and they know all the cool things to say, but nobody else thinks they're cool. Plainsman, you're not kidding when you point out their HORRIBLE habit of self-reference, and near self-indulgence. I think it was during the Mavs Championship run they actually spent segments reading THEIR OWN TWEETS from the night before. Not to mention the segments they've burned breaking down the nuances of Wes Anderson films. They've gotten better, but now that they've taken their hiatus from broadcasting, we'll have to see where they land and if the trend continues.

duckandcover said...

9:45, thanks for the compliment, buddy! You're ever throwing them my way. I'm truly humbled. Indeed, I'd be remiss if I didn't thank you for all of the kind words that you leave for me in nearly every thread. 'Preciate ya, Pal. Really 'preciate ya.

Now on to your slickly posed counterargument.

Since my claim regarding B&S/some local shows has apparently upset you greatly (hence your neglecting to capitalize "and," the misspelling of "no one" and "consciously," and the use of all caps--i.e., screaming--when the first half of your post was well written), I will be ever so tender in tone. First, as an aside: You do understand that one can emulate another subconsciously, yes? Often we emulate or even out and out imitate those we look up to. Okay. Here we go: I believe if you listen to either K&C Masterpiece or the thrown together local weekend/weeknight shows that are now popping up with greater frequency on ESPN (more about those in minute), you will hear striking similarities between those shows and B&S. For example, K&C Masterpiece have a segment/bit/whatever you wish to call it that is the mirror image of B&S's point-counterpoint segment. From its presentation to its scoring to its tone, it is exactly like B&S's (once) daily segment. That is one example; I can give more if need be.

Local programming:

I've noticed over the last several months that both The FAN and ESPN are beginning to focus more and more on weeknight and weekend (local) programming. I think this is a smart move. They realize that as things stand, they are only fighting for the 2nd and 3rd spot in the ratings. Furthermore, these spots are so close to each other and so far away from 1st, that at this point it's almost meaningless. And this is not going to change anytime soon. So, why not create a new market? I think they're doing it. A modicum of success has been eked out in the form of the G-Bag Nation's (perhaps the worst named show, ever) weeknight ratings. It wouldn't surprise me if that's where B&S wind up. I can see them doing a weeknight show; one that is even simulcasted on channel 27 (which would comport with Ben's Tweet that alluded to their future pertaining to both t.v. and radio). The gist, here, is to go after what, for DFW at least, is considered non-traditional time slots; build up loyal audiences/allegiances; thus build up advertising dollars; and then see if it might eventually transition over to the traditional AM/PM/afternoon drive times. Or something along those lines.

Regarding Plainsman's 8:19 query: If the P1 who liked(s) B&S wouldn't switch over from BaD, I doubt they will in the case of THL, either.

Anonymous said...

No one's impressed that you got an "A" in 9th grade english duckandcover. I'm sure your co-workers really appreciate your well though, mile long, email replies to answer such questions as "What's for lunch today boys?"

Anonymous said...

Uh, looks like you failed out of 2nd grade English. Seriously dude. Why? You antagonized someone and they just owned you and you can't take it. You look the fool. If you don't like what someone says then why don't you tell them why? Making jr high comments that have nothing to do with anything is idiotic. You look the fool. But that's what trolls do. Sad.

Count me as a Hardline fan. A big one. I would like it if they'd work up a new segment and cut out a music segment or two. But there's no way I'd listen to Ben and Skin over the Hardline. I like Skin on the Mavs tv booth. I don't like Skin on the radio. Listening to Ben and Skin on the radio is like listening to a Twitter feed. If that makes any sense. Too much.

The Plainsman said...

All right, gentlemen on all sides, let's cut the "so's your old man" stuff for now. Really, people. And I don't care who started it. Don't make me get out the ruler.

In general, it works best if we stick to addressing substantive Tickety points and not mode of expression.

Exception: You can come after me for style transgressions and compositional sins. But let's keep the intra-Confessor snark to a minimum, kumbayah?

slinky said...

If B & S is as good as Fan can come up with as replacement for RaGE, my vote would be no. They're certainly no competition for THL. I'm sorry, but I just find the Hammer fun to listen to. Greggo might be a jerk in real life, but on radio, he come off as a fun, likeable average Joe. It will take Hammer finding the right vehicle.

East Texas P1 said...

Anyone know or wonder why RW hasn't posted anything in the Sportatorium since 2/25/13? He went from 2 -3 posts a week to nothing in 7 business days. I know there was last week's visit to Vegas but I think, if I was keeping a blog, I would post one in advance or on the road. Surely it isn't due to the road trip to spring training.

Also, over on the radio board one person is speculating that the FAN is safe for a year.

slinky said...

Plainsman, sometimes the "snark" is the fun part, as long as kept within bounds...

forest said...

Agreed. What sucks is that we have at least one troll. Personally I thought duck's response was pretty funny and it actually addressed the troll's bitch without calling names. The anon right after the troll's second attack on duck was aggressive but I can see why someone would be. I'm tired of the MTC troll or trolls. Hopefully those who are attacked will just ignore it. But I can understand why after awhile you couldn't help but fight back. Lots of people with big balls out there in the interwebs along as they can remain anonymous. Then you finally see who they are. Like that guy who was terrorizing reddit for so long and so viciously. Ended up being some sad sack from our very own metroplex suburbs.

duckandcover said...

11:50, thanks for coming to my defense, but I can take care of myself. Trolls are a part of the cost of doing business on the internet. And sometimes, it's fun to have sport with them when they persistently come at you. But it's no big deal.

Now let's go on to something more important if in fact there is something more important to go on to.

Did anyone listen to the first segment of BaD today? If I wasn't mistaken, they were taking direct shots at RaGE. More to the quick, the shots were aimed at RW and his relationship with Sybil. It was implied that either the relationship was over or on the rocks; and that whatever the case is, it has been the cause of problems.

Anonymous said...


Craig Rosengarden ‏@Avidgolfer98
This week is the start of finding my replacement on The Tee Box.First up-our Publisher, @RRavidgolfer. Good luck Robert! Hope youre the guy!
32 mins Jeremy Moran ‏@poponjer
@Avidgolfer98 leaving the show? Your contributions will be missed! Especially by me!
24 mins Craig Rosengarden ‏@Avidgolfer98
@poponjer Its time. Hopefully I can give you some gold the rest of this month....
4 mins Jeremy Moran ‏@poponjer
@Avidgolfer98 we'll make sure you get a touching off-mic tribute before you go.
Hide conversation Reply Retweet Favorite More
4:19 p.m. - Mar 6, 2013 · Details

So Craig "Johnny E Brake" Rosen Rosen is leaving the T Box in a pretty hurried manner. Stating "it's time, buddy, it's tiiiiiiime." Well, that's a bummer. Saturdays just got a lot less interesting. Oh well, there'll always be George "Potency" DiGianni. Can't say I'm surprised. I mean, shit, how many times and for how long can you keep making yourself out to be and being picked out as an idiot. At some point the self respect thing overrides the minor local celebrity appeal of it. Plus it can't help his business or the way he's looked at by his peers in the industry if he's going to make himself look shockingly ignorant week after week for years now.


Anonymous said...

The greatest trick the Ticket ever pulled was convincing it's listeners they knew anything about radio
-Verbal Kent

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous Ron said...

We've covered this ground before, but it was really sad to listen to Greggo at spring training today - asking players questions and inserting the names of pop singers and one of their songs to see if anyone would call him on it.

Anonymous said...

@Verbal Kent
What on earth are you talking about????

Anonymous said...

Ben tweeted they are staying local and posted of a pic as a clue of Garrett and the star in the background with the caption "it's a process. A lot of folk are speculating the cowboy station.

And Greggo is still doing Classic Rock Guy? So original. I heard it last year at ST or training camp, doesn't he have his own name for it?

slinky said...

Yeah, theres some bits that Greggo needs to leave alone. That was one. Man, the way Rhynes teased that death of a huge musician segment, you would have thought Brian Wilson died!

Anonymous said...

I guess the Greggo bit was so good, they played it twice!

Anonymous said...

I caught the Greggo bit too, sorry to say. He doesn't even know how to do it right, it was really terrible radio.

Anonymous said...

Was that last THL bit a shot at gbag nation?

Anonymous said...

What did they say?

The Plainsman said...

Please, folks -- if you're going to comment on something you heard, you really must tell us what you heard. Consider your audience. We don't all listen all the time. I may start taking down "Wow, did you hear that?" comments unless you stop this shameful teasing.

I'm serious.

The Plainsman said...

I'm still giving TC a pass for the quandary he was dealing with a couple of nights ago. The question isn't whether he's an experienced host, it's whether he should have to put up with faulty equipment at this point. He didn't give us dead air, he kept talking, I was interested to hear what the problem was. He's done a real good job with the Top 10, and is sometimes rather witty. If this is an E-Brake candidate, I think the candidate should be "Cumulus Engineering" and not TC, and then they could combine that with The Musers' similar problem this morning under a single rubric.

The Plainsman said...

Sorry to hear that Craig Rosengarden is leaving The Teebox. Very entertaining show. I'm sure that they'll find someone to sit with Rick, but let's face it, it won't be the same. Wait . . . I wonder if Mitchell Karasik knows anything about golf. And does it matter?

And my prediction that Craig would kick George DiGianni's ass sometime in 2013 is unlikely to come to pass.

If I get any news on this I'll let you know.

The Plainsman said...

I heard from an experienced radio guy the other day. He had heard the TC clip and the Musers' problem. He didn't know what the problems were -- they didn't sound like they were exactly the same -- but he did say that it was pretty disgraceful that fourteen months after the move to Victory they still hadn't got their equipment to work properly.

Said it totally sounded like an upstairs engineering problem, not a boots-on-the-ground problem. Found the whole situation with the Victory move unbelievably bush-league.

cactusflinthead said...

Rosen Rosen is gone?! dammit. It was radio gold. WTF is wrong with them. Johnny E-Brake lives. Drinking coffee and listening them talk about golf and smith won't quite be the same. Surely Corby isn't coming back to the teabag.

No, THL is not the same as it was with Greggo. But at the end it was almost like this. Greggo was absent half the time and when he was there it was in body and not in mind. Disinterested Greggo was manifested many times before then, it all depended on the topic. That was part of the fun of it.
Now, Corby and Danny gang up and nutkick Mike. Do I really need to explain that is why that bit made the radio? It was an opportunity to kick the old man squarely in the balls. It is that sort of gibberish that keeps my ears listening.
Norm whips my ass no end sometimes when he gets on a subject like a bulldog on a bone. He will not let things go and goes off. I am NOT looking forward to his long examination of Nolan's situation. He won't quit until lunch time. This is ripe for a Norm unglued segment. What are my alternatives? Slater. Non-starter. Cowherd? whatever. KXT? Yeah ok fine.

@Steve. I guess I never really noticed when they were on the Ticket. Maybe it is a Facebook thing for him. I wonder if he is gonna stay in radio or go back to the old gig. I wonder about Elf on that subject too sometimes.

D.A. said...

@BBQ (March 5)
I seriously cannot see Bob taking a color job with any team for a few reasons.

First, he is not succinct enough to get his point across in a constantly moving game like the NHL.

Second, even if Reaugh leaves, the Stars front office has an increasing pool of former Dallas Stats who still reside in the area who played with the current management who have actual game experience over Bob.

Lastly, IMO, I do not think that he (or his family) would want him to on the road that much.
Travel to/from 41 road games + possible playoffs + possible training camp out of the metroplex. That is a lot of time and for a guy who really seems to not like extended time away from home on business (Super Bowl, Cowboys camp), I think he would be miserable after his first season.

Ben and Skin have done a commendable job in "hustling" their way into their situation since I remember that Ben was previously in TV sales. This is also in a major market too.

My timeline is probably off but IIRC, they went from:
1. Call-in guests on BaD Radio specifically on the Mavericks to...
2. The Ticket Mavs post-game show for home games...
3. Ticket replacement hosts for vacationing staff
4. The FAN (aka CBS Radio) from 2007-09
5. ESPNRadio from 2009-13 and Skin is on with the Mavs.

To have success like that in a major market rarely occurs like this. They are the exception (along with those like Mike North and TJ the Brick) rather the the rule. That said, along with a possible move back to CBS Radio, I agree with most that they are hard to listen to for an extended period of time. If you start listening on a Monday, they run out of gas by Wednesday. They did their best work in the Mavs 2007 season, the first round loss to Golden State and declined since.

If The FAN/CBS takes them back, they are probably doing it for only one reason I can think of...Try to keep them for 12-18 months and hope that Mike retires from THL so they can try to snap up listeners with a program familiar to the local sports radio demo for afternoon drive.

Sorry to hear that Craig Rosengarden is leaving "The Teebox", especially since he accepted my LinkedIn invitation within the last two weeks. The second hour of "The Teebox" plus "The Orphanage" accounts for my weekend Ticket listening outside of Cowboys-related shows.

Tomfoolery said...

Did anybody see what Grubes was tweeting this morning about being upset with things said on this site?
He was supposedly mad about negative comments about The Hardline made by posters on here.

Anonymous said...

I don't care that the TC incident was an engineering problem. I'll say it again, it's how you perform when the adversity arrives. He voice tracks the ticket top 10 and still comes out bumbling each time. Plainsman, are you honestly telling me you would listen to TC for 3-4 hours a weekday if he were promoted up from top 10? Because when you admire the job he does now, I assume you support the notion of him moving up. You could pair him with Jesus Herman and it would be awful. The kid doesn't have it. Just because they give you something doesn't mean you have to try so hard to like or support it. The ticket is great, no one is denying that. But 1310 mgt knows, and you should too, that TC is operating well above the peak of his DFW sports radio capabilities.

Anonymous said...

I like TC on both the top 10 and IJB. Did he cover for the malfunction flawlessly? No. But how should he have handled it while simultaneously trying to fix what was going wrong? In any event, it was entertaining to hear him squirm.

Let's get over ourselves.

ausgang said...

Yowzers, it looks like Grubes and ap, among others, are proclaiming MTC has jumped the shark; that the trolls have taken over; and that the criticism of THL and all things Ticket has now crossed over to the scurrilous.

If you think I'm exaggerating, please take a gander at Shoopy's Twitter timeline.

I dunno, I've gone back through every comment of the last five threads and with the exception of a very few, the yeas and nays where THL is concerned are pretty much evenly divided. Actually, I'd say the yeas have it by more than a nose. The nays, on the whole are both respectful and consistent in their criticism. And the criticism falls into two distinct camps: 1. Corby-haters, and 2. THL has become lazy. With respect to 1, this is absolutely nothing new since the inception of this site. I don't see how these comments could invite such a rebuke from Grubes, etc. As to 2, I have yet to read a "Hardline sucks" or something ignorant along those lines. Agree or not, all I keep reading are comments from what seem to be P1s expressing their dissatisfaction with THL. The majority give reasons and some state examples.

Sorry, Grubes and ap, I don't get where you guys are coming from. Since you are both contributors to this site, and I assume care about it, why don't you come on here an explicate your Twitter comments. I think many of us regulars (and I can only assume Plainsman, too) would appreciate it. Because, quite frankly, I don't see where it's coming from.

Anonymous said...

@D.A. Bob has already done many color gigs for the Stars. Yes he's long winded in many of his interviews and on a lot of his HSOs, but he's not that way when he does either Stars games or FC Dallas games. I don't think your gripe is valid on this one.

Anonymous Ron said...

Criticism of THL is mostly about content and delivery. We know those things because we are listening. Which is better, offer criticism of what we hear or just turn it off?

The Plainsman said...

I have a lot of respect for Michael and ap, and they've been friends of the site for a long time. I truly regret that they're upset.

But like ausgang, I've also sensed that the pro-Hardline thinking here has outweighed the anti-, and the anti- generally makes points for which there is some evidence.

This site has had three periods of very rapid growth: (1) Barb Smith posting here after her departure, (2) the Victory move, and (3) Greg Williams's recent sabbatical. In each case, the increase in readers was permanent.

And, with those increases do come the trolls. With the large number of comments now appearing on nearly every post, it's inevitable that we hear more excitable voices, and maybe they do seem disproportionately represented just because of the noise they create. Maybe I should be more aggressive about weeding out some of the angrier stuff, but in the end this site is just a hobby -- I wish I had more time to keep an eye on things, maybe add more features, I dunno, but it just ain't gonna happen while I'm still gainfully employed. I've been trying to decide what to do with the site, and maybe it would be an improvement if I tossed more commenters. But, like ausgang, I just don't see a significant uptick in unacceptable posts. If I deleted the stuff that's critical, there'd be no reason to come here.

In any case, the site itself -- i.e., I -- have been a fairly strong Hardline defender for quite awhile now, even while recognizing those things that get under some listeners' skins. In fact, it's ironic -- I loved yesterday's show. I couldn't stop laughing at the TV dinner talk. Thinking -- I don't know a set of talents anywhere who could do what these three do.

The Plainsman said...

And one more thing -- let's not fall into the Ben and Skin habit of letting the self-referential whirlpool suck us into irrelevance. If the site turns out just to be about the site, it's time to move on. I'm always open to criticism of the site and I continue to give careful consideration to calls for my retirement. But in the meantime can we agree to keep this about The Ticket?

As always, my thanks.

blergoyen said...

I'm starting to think the loss of Grubes was bigger then originally expected. Grubes' drops not only served to boost the humor level of THL, but it's become more apparent they also covered up a lot of flaws. As we all know, the beauty of those drops was not just in the content, but the timing. For me, it was as if Grubes was voicing my thoughts about the discussion EXACTLY when I was thinking them. Now when I listen to THL, there's nothing to break up the monotony of a segment on Dallas' 2nd Petty tribute band or coyotes in the backyard ditch or golfing with Vaginaton and Testiculaton. Now you just have to fight through it with no one voicing your opinions and tempering the lack of quality. It was like the most awesome icing on a mediocre, stale cake.

Brad Gilbert said...

Let me quick-hit a couple of things:

Craig R leaving the TB - If I was the head of a corporation, I would think that it would be detrimental to come off as he does often when it comes to vocabulary. Especially when one of your major productions is a written periodical. Makes sense that he now wants to step aside.

TC - isn't one of the reasons he is where he is now with the Top 10 because of the way he did handle it? That is what gets people talking, and lets face it, we are talking about an hour re-cap show of what has already previously been aired. Plus, isn't the Little Ticket known for "pulling back the curtain?" and what says it more than talking out loud your way through that mess?

As far as those who claim that this site has "jumped the shark": 1) Has the term "jumping the shark" jumped the shark yet? 2) Maybe those who still work at the Ticket are now asking certain others who no longer do why they comment here when "some" negative things are said?

The Plainsman said...

Very quick response, Brad: I VERY much doubt Subsection (2) of your final paragraph. I don't think The Ticket does that or would do that. ap is not a Ticket employee, and it is inconceivable that Michael would be subject to that kind of influencef in any event.

I am certain that their remarks reflect their sincere opinions.

Grubes said...

I didn't claim MTC has jumped the shark. I'm just getting annoyed that the comments feel like they're being overrun more and more by trolls. I know that's the cost of doing business as a site grows, but this always felt like a "safe haven" for P1's to comment on the station...respectfully.

The good still far outweigh the bad, but the bad always gets noticed and is more easily remembered. Seeing the commenters bitching at each other and ripping into the Hardline just set me off. Looking back at it, it appears that it was one guy behind both of those. Basically, I got trolled.

Mr. Plainsman, I don't feel this reflects on you in any way. You're busy, and leaving the comments open is the most efficient way of running this ship. Just sucks that some people can't handle it, though I do think removing the option to sign in anonymously would be pretty helpful to the cause.

So basically, sorry for overreacting a couple nights ago. I still love this site and (most of) its contributors.

BBQ said...

Great to hear from you Grubes. Thanks for setting the record straight.

Unfortunately, I'm about to bitch...

Lads (channeling the ghost of Norman Elizabeth Hitzges *by the way, if you Google Norm, choose energy is the 4th option given!), the more I come to know Jake, the less I like him. From the extremely sorry high school sex club story to the I know the real history of America to what appears to amount to a bit of a superiority/I'm the smartest guy in the room complex, I'm not impressed.

What I see is a very well educated young man who is intellectually immature and who woefully lacks wisdom. Is this the "real" Jake? I've no idea. But this is the Jake that Jake is putting out there. And it's becoming more evident every show. I enjoyed, greatly, his work with Newbury on the Cowboys pre pre game show. For the most part I think he does a solid job producing. He let's the game come to him and he doesn't try to emulate Grubes; he's got his own style, and that's a good thing.

Unless he dials back the I'm the smartest guy in the room persona, I'm afraid I won't be able to tune in on Sundays for very much longer. Jake has a lot to offer, but he sorely needs to listen back to some of the things he says and how he says them. IMHO.

The Plainsman said...

Thank you, Michael. Appreciate the clarification.

I myself got a little peeved at some of the sniping on insubstantial matters and, as you see above, took some mild steps to try to get things back on track.

I have resisted making people pick a name because I figured it was easy for anyone to say they were someone else and I'd have a worse problem than I have now. A troll could pick a new name for each trollish pronouncements. Anything requiring more oversight than that would take more time than I have. Although I will say it's more fun when a Confessor establishes an individual identity. May give it a try.

ausgang said...

Grubes, you are right. Neither you nor ap claimed MTC had jumped the shark. I was drawing that overarching conclusion from your Twitter conversation. While I don't think my conclusion was out of line or unfair, I do apologize if you feel that I misrepresented you. That wasn't my intention. By the way, I totally agree with you and ap about the increased troll presence here. I believe it's one or two people. My gut feeling is that it's one troll who likes to use different "voices." Okay, enough of that. Let's not give the troll/s more of the attention that they crave. They're given enough already.

Hope school and FSSW are treating you well.
Stay Hard.

The Plainsman said...

To give you a rough idea of how breaking news can affect this site: Of the 30 days prior to today, only one showed original visits over 300, and that was day 15. On days 16-30 (counting day 1 as the beginning of the 30 days), only three have been below 300. Four have been over 400, one over 500, and one over 700. So yeah, I'm sure some miscreants have discovered the site.

But keep up the retweeting and tell your friends, and let's keep the party going. I'll try to be more stern with misbehaving Confessors, and I would cordially invite even frequent contributors to keep the tone nice and easy even if you're unhappy about something.

Anonymous said...

Not sure what your beef is with Jake. He often is the smartest guy in the room - big deal. Tell me when Junior Miller, Corby, Sports Sturm et al act as though they are the smartest guy in the room on a given argument once they dig in. I think Jake Z is a good addition to the team an definitely builds bench strength.

Anonymous said...

Not sure what your beef is with Jake. He often is the smartest guy in the room - big deal. Tell me when Junior Miller, Corby, Sports Sturm et al dont act as though they are the smartest guy in the room on a given argument once they dig in. I think Jake Z is a good addition to the team and definitely builds bench strength.

BBQ said...

It's not personal. It's my opinion. My comment was about Jake, not Junior, Bob, or Corby. Obviously you don't agree with it. But saying "what about these guys" isn't really a rebuttal. I made my comment because Jake is no longer on the bench (unlike Farrell). Now that he has a weekly show and has been on for the entire week subbing for Norm, I thought I'd give my two cents. I stand by the comment. If you'd like to try to change my mind with an actual counterargument, I welcome it. Tell me where and why I'm wrong. If you like I'll gladly give you some instances of his that make me take the stance that I do.

And by the way, how do you know he's often the smartest guy in the room?

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
blergoyen said...

@BBQ - I used to agree with most of what you say about Jake, but I think he may be shedding some of his academia-brainwashed skin as he's giving more mic time. From what I've heard, his opinions are getting more thought out and better researched compared to last year. He still lets some of his "what about the starving african babies" propaganda squeak out, but its starting to fade. When he stood in (sort of) for corky a few weeks back, I thought it was the best THL has sounded in a LONG TIME. I think he'll out grow a lot of what you don't like and I wouldn't be surprised if he grows on you. If you want to understand JakeZ better, read this

Anonymous said...

No I am not Jake's GF. I am offended that my blog writing style came off feminine. My rebuttal is I find his analytics takes refreshing vs. (for instance) Georgio's perception based biases. Just my opinion and I use others for the purpose of comparison. Yes I agree that Jake likely has a thick skin as he often will say that he sucks at various things. I like his humorous George DiGiannin is obsessed with virility comments. Hilarious

BBQ said...

I'm not the one who asked you if you are Jake's girlfriend. But I think the anon's question came from your saying how Jake is often the smartest guy in the room. Surely you can see why someone might ask it? Even if you were, it really doesn't matter.

With all due respect, I'm having a hard time following your rebuttal. All perspectives are subjective at some level. Some more than others. There is nothing said on The Ticket (by any host, etc.) that is not subjective and therefore based on one's perception. You appreciate the way Jake thinks, and that's fine. And really, that's about all I can say.

Thanks for the link. As I previously said, I really liked Jake's work with Newbury on the Cowboys pre pre game show. I also think he has a lot to offer. But IMHO he's going to have to shed (even more so) the very things you describe. Fact is, for instance, I don't want to turn on my favorite sports-guy talk station and hear Howard Zinn's historical narrative smugly pontificated as the "real" history. I just don't. This is just one example, mind you. I really hope that you're right and I come around on him. But for me, it's going to take some growing up on his side. I don't mind immaturity and silliness. But I can't stand the perpetual sophomore in college mentality. Unfortunately, Jake still has that. As I've said before, I work in administration for the graduate school of liberal arts for a local university. I see these people every single day. Age and level of education doesn't matter. Some are tenured profs, some are Ph.D. candidates, and some are undergrads. I get enough of it at my job. I don't need it from my favorite radio station.

One last thing @anon6:04. I totally agree with you on Jake's George DiGianni obsession. Hilarity.

The Plainsman said...

I've liked Jake's work and I still do. I haven't heard the Norm fill-in, but I've heard a lot of his other co-hosting work and never thought it was smart-alecky or look-at-my-brains or anything like that. I'm thumbs-up with Jake so far.

Not every host has to sound like -- how can I say this without insulting anyone? -- they may not have been paying the closest attention in school. Not that any host is dumb, not a single one of them is, but Jake has a distinctive mode of expression that may set him apart to some degree. What's wrong with that?


And by the way -- I'm telling you to STOP with the personal insinuations about fellow Confessors. If you want to address the merits of a post, fine, but my tolerance for this ad hominem crap has worn thin to the point of invisibility. As Bob Newhart has observed, STOP IT.

cactusflinthead said...

@Grubes and Jer and whoever else associated with the little Ticket that might be lurking.

Love ya man. Even if we critique you and your players it is because we like your product. I like Sriracha sauce annnd Tabasco. There is only so much you can say comparing the two. DFW and the larger sports radio scene has a lot more to investigate. We are going to form some hot sports opinions about what we hear and how we interact with these voices in the theater of the mind. There are going to be some haters. Haters gonna hate. Just how it is. The mods can take care of some of it, but flamewars happen.

I know I rag on Dan and Norm sometimes but I am gonna listen to that rustbelt refugee and Uncle Norm as long as they are on the airwaves. I might punch out periodically but I come back. I am a P1. I expect most of us Confessors are. I guess there could be some weird consultant lurking around reading about fan interaction or whatever other BS they call it, but by and large it is fans. The dirty, drunken, stoned 25-54 or sweet, clean sober ones that show up at events and take pictures for a radio station event.

After you have beaten us into submission with the thousandth rotation of "that sweet bird of youth" we still listen.

ausgang said...

Amen to you remonstrance, Plainsman. It's starting to get out of control. Even some normally mild-mannered Confessors are getting goaded into flamewars (even though they are tame when compared to most sites).

And I echo, completely, your comment, cactusflinthead. Well said!

ap said...

Sorry guys, late to the party as usual, and have to leave early. As ausgang and others have cleared up, I was wondering what was going on when I saw Grubes tweeting at 5:00AM. Since I'm over a week behind in ticket listening, I didn't know what was going on vis-a-vis TC and was hoping to get some quick context. The twitter thread doesn't quite make sense anymore as some of the initial tweets were later deleted.

Has this site gone to hell in a handbasket? No. Has the signal-to-noise ratio gone up considerably? Sure. Is it always easy to separate those with an axe to grind, from those who claim to have inside info, to those who are looking to deliberately sow seeds of doubt and discontent? Hell no. Some folks have gotten really good at identifying anons based on their previous appearances and holding their own if the going gets rough (ausgang, shaggy, duckandcover, etc), but I'm not cut out for that kind of thing. I don't think Shoopy likes doing it either, and I'm guessing that's why he momentarily blew his stack.

The Plainsman has consistently maintained that he would prefer to keep anonymous comments enabled so that those with information to share can do so without having to worry about repercussions. I suggested a stop-gap measure of possibly using an IP-based snowflake as an avatar (see theunticket) so we could at least correlate the various anons. It's not perfect and easily circumventable, but still, perhaps worth revisiting?

(Remember back when our only complaint about this site was the Captcha?) :)