A home for those who love almost everything about The Ticket (1310 AM, 96.7 FM, Dallas-Fort Worth), and who would like to discuss -- respectfully and fondly -- their thoughts on how (and whether) to eliminate the "almost."
Monday, July 31, 2023
(1) Starting Now: All “Anonymous” Comments Will Be Deleted, Plus Some Guidelines for Naming, and (2) a Refresher on Civility
I’m pleased to see so many Confessors adopting names, getting a head start on the new rule. I will try to remind people who come to the site of the “Anonymous = Deletion” policy with every post so that even new readers are not surprised.
I will probably only delete the content of the post, so that people are reminded when encountering the message that “this message has been removed by a blog administrator” that Anonymous comments are no longer accepted, no matter how good they are.
Other than deletion, I don’t have any way to enforce rules about naming itself, but I would respectfully request Confessors to observe the following – let’s call them guidelines – when selecting names:
• Not too vulgar.
• Don’t use names of real people unless it is very obvious you are not that person. For example, I believe someone posted as “Grubes1310” a post or two ago, which I believe is the name that that nice young Michael Gruber used when he would check in from time to time.
• By the same token, don’t use a name that is confusingly similar to another Confessor’s.
• I would prefer that you not use variations of “Plainsman,” but if it’s clearly a bit I probably won’t delete.
• Variations of “Anonymous” are OK, i.e., “Not Anonymous,” “Very Anonymous,” “Anonymous-a-Poppin” are acceptable.
• It works better if you pick a name and stick with it.
• Anything that, in my own subjective and unreviewable judgment, annoys me unduly.
I’m wondering if we have some new readers, because I’m seeing a lot of name-calling and other unacceptable content that violate the Rules of the Confessional. It might be worthwhile for some of you to revisit:
I’ve been away and busy and without time to spend much of it deleting comments, but there are probably a half-dozen in the last post that I should have sent packing. Things are easing up schedule-wise and I’ll try to check the site more often. Just so everyone knows:
• Keep vulgarity to an absolute minimum.
• No name-calling. And men and women, I’m talking about even mild name-calling, like “snowflake” and “haters.” If I force you not to use stuff like this, you’ll give us better content, or keep your own counsel.
• No impugning the intelligence of a Confessor.
• No impugning the life experience of a Confessor.
• No impugning the education of a Confessor.
• No impugning the Ticket knowledge of a Confessor, or his or her listening habits.
• Keep woke and anti-woke commentary – in fact, political commentary of all kinds -- to a minimum. In fact, a minimum is probably too much. OK to criticize a host for excessive politicizing, but if it turns into Confessor v. Confessor, it’s gone.
• No posts obviously intended to start a fight.
• Perhaps most importantly: If you’re angry, don’t post. A commentary that may not violate any of these rules but just gratuitously twists off without much of anything useful to impart is nothing more than a lightning rod for more useless commentary. And it’s boring.
• Anything that, in my own subjective and unreviewable judgment, annoys me unduly.
These are interesting times at The Ticket and Dallas sports-talk radio generally. MTC has become a place where, increasingly, valuable information and commentary appears. Let’s keep it a clubhouse where ladies and gentlemen behave in that way, except when I have to yell at assholes.
" Perhaps most importantly: If you’re angry, don’t post. A commentary that may not violate any of these rules but just gratuitously twists off without much of anything useful to impart is nothing more than a lightning rod for more useless commentary. And it’s boring."
reposting this here from the very end of last post re: some Singh comments re: $$ and podcasting
Flagrant, the podcast Akkash Singh is on, is bringing in about $80,000 / month with about 17,000 patrons / month. Spent most of the last 3 years in the Patreon Video top 10 listing.
Well that would give me some hope if I were D&J that a couple of spares can make that much money podcasting, but I'm assuming they're getting a national audience through standup, YT, etc. A bit harder when you're known as local sports talk guys in one market.
The Dumb Zone Patreon already over 20,000 dollars a month in revenue and counting. They have proven that they can secure a six figure income each even before side promo deals with companies. Conservatively you can easily see each host earning over 300k and doing it on their own terms once they fully monetize their potential. 500k each not out of the question.
Yes, I can totally see media buyers, overwhelmingly young women, lining up to spend ad dollars on a podcast where the host just talked about taking illegal drugs and pissing his own pants. Totally an advertiser friendly topic. And for all those that will respond with “it’s just a story, a radio bit, theater of the mind,”, etc, how do we feel about the mcclarin teenage prom story? I’ve seen Reddit today, peeing your pants is cool because it’s Jake and we like Jake, but Mcclarin is totally creepy? C
So just to clarify, you feel that a 30 year old taking a high schooler to her prom is on the same level of creepiness as a dude getting wasted and peeing his pants? If a buddy of mine did one of those, I'd give him hell about it for the rest of his life. If he did the other, I'd distance from him and would certainly never allow him near either of my daughters.
@OU812 you can see them "conservatively" 2.5 Xing the current audience? that's just to get to 50k / month.
i think there is upside here but for them to be netting +1m / year or +83k / month would put them in the top 5 podcast on the platform and probably somewhere in the top 50 in total patrons. that isn't conservative.
I think Akash seriously overestimates their popularity. Listening to TDZ podcast now, he’s talking about how famous they are in DFW. Reality check - they got a 10 share of men 25-54. So of all the men in DFW, they got 10% of the ones using radio. And I’m assuming they’re just writing off women in the market, unless the story of Jake pissing his own pants why tripping on X with Sirois is supposed to attract the ladies. So they’re known to a niche audience if men, in one city, with limited appeal outside of that target, and with no real outside talent to draw new listeners. Akaash does stand up, he’s got a way to draw in new subscribers. Do Dan and Jake? Because, of that 10 share, how many will subscribe, how many will stay subscribed. Can they sustain their business model? C
For those here who are unfamiliar with the podcasting industry - go take a gander at any "Top 100" podcasts - and these are the free ones - and take a peek at the number that are content from former radio shows (hosts). On the Apple list, I think it's less than five, and even those are shoulder content to an existing radio thing or nationally known names.
The reality is 99% of all "successful" podcasts are not current or ex-radio people. The pods that are extra-ordinarily profitable in terms of subscriptions are definitely not of the "former radio show that believed it could make even more money via podcasting". If we believe that TDZ were offered - just to make up a number - $250K each from Cumulus that is $500K total in subscriptions just to match it, but you have to take into account what Pateron charges (8-12% depending on your account level). Let's not forget taxes and all the other up-front costs. Certainly they could find sponsors - but who? Ticket clients? Their attractiveness to agencies will only come after some period of establishing their product.
When they are told about this comic's riches and his podcast making millions - it's just not as simple as "we can do x% less than him and still make even more money". IJB even had an actual radio show that would occasionally mention it, and I believe they topped out at $5K a month in subscriber revenue. They don't have a radio show to promote this on, and I suspect here soon are going to get tangled in a protracted legal battle.
Math estimates they'll need to sustain a round number of about 6000 subscribers at $7 a month (this doesn't take into consideration the talk of a $69 annual rate, a 20% discount) and sustain that thru the normal course of "pateron churn" (credit cards expiring, changing, cancelations, etc) to get to $500K annually. After a week, they're just under 3K subs.
Very likely they could hit 6K and be a pair of happy podcasters - but I think we all know how this story ends now, don't we?
OK, I listened to the 7/31 DZ podcast. My biggest takeaway: Akaash is really talented at this and would make a fantastic host. Kind of made me want to check out his podcast. D&J by comparison were extremely muted and meandering.
It’s almost like radio broadcasting and podcasting aren’t the same thing. And being good at one doesn’t make you good or successful at the other. Off the top of my head here’s my issue- it’s active listening vs passive listening. Most of my radio listening is passive, while I’m driving, as background noise as I’m working, etc. I’m a more attentive listener to my podcast subscriptions. Because I’m there for news, info or opinion on (subject) and most podcasts get in, tell their story, and get out. TDZ is much more meandering. Which was fine when you had 3 hours in the middle of the day to fill. It’s still painful to listen to the fact they can’t get in and out of a subject, they don’t transition well, etc. as podcasters they’re just not that good. C
And there's the Jake Points for Sex Club back in h.s. How many have had their lives destroyed 8 years down the road for Tweeting out something vile, unconsciable when they were 16? A lot. But as C said, we like X so we're cool with Y/pretend like Y doesn't exist. Let me be clear, I in NO WAY think Jake should be judged on his very shitty h.s. behavior. Reddit has lost its collective mind. At this point the page should be renamed r/thedumbzone. What some over there are trying to do re MM is just awful. Also interesting is the Xing pissing story because it involves Sirois. I'm still of mind that that's been the destination all along. Let's say it isn't. Let's say, as Surly claims, Akaash is the reason. Then they obviously never negotiated in good faith. Just to head it off at the pass, asking for things that no other host anywhere in the business has ever received (including the Sterns of the world) is not negotiating in good faith. It's doing exactly what C and Plainsman have come to/are coming to believe: that an no point did they have any intention of staying at TT, and this was a play to make them look like they did their best to stay but The Man forced their frail, collective hand. If they aren't going to TF, then I'm afraid they're going to learn a most bitter to swallow pill of a lesson. One with irrevocable consequences. Listen to commonsense, not a small but vocal group who will dump you at the drop of a dime. And certainly not to someone who is a unicorn in a particular endeavor telling you how simple it all is. It's the equivalent to the late night how to get rich selling realestate infomercial. Yes, the dude is beyond wealthy and yes he has a formula that worked for him. But for him. You aren't him. He's the unicorn, you are not. As a former Ticket host liked to say and say often, "It's just the way it is."
Call me skeptical of them holding their current subscriber base. A certain amount of people are going to subscribe for a month to get the teased Ticket scuttlebutt. After a month goes by, they are going to be topped out. All their fanboys will have subscribed but I don't see how they attract new listeners and the number will slowly bleed off.
I will give the new 10-3 reconfiguration a shot, and a healthy one at that. But I must say that I'm neither terribly excited, nor am I hopeful. While I did think McClearin's last go through on TT (Sun with JJT *can we at least be thankful he wasn't brought back*) was pretty dang good, I'm not following the logic here of making him a Varsity host. My guess is that this move came from on high, and was not of Cat/Bennett's doing. Recall that Matt was a Ticker/Johnny on the Spot employee who was given a Sunday show with Scot Harrison (MaSS). Not too terribly long after that, Cumulus moved them to Birmingham pm drive. After a shakeup, Scot moved onto other ventures and Matt returned here and elsewhere in the Cumulus cluster. He was then given another Varsity slot (solo) back in Birmingham, and now he's back here in a Varsity role. Cumulus or someone in high places there holds a lot of stock in Matt. That's why I think he's here, and that it was not Cat/Bennett's call. In time, and barring any return of Matt's TMI/ick factor, I'll bet the pairing will do fine and the numbers will reflect it. Nothing standout, but solid enough to remain #1 or a close 2nd depending on the month. Sean and Mino, that I'm not so sure of. Hate to be a broken record/a part of the echo chamber, but while he seems like a real good guy who's more than paid his dues, Sean absolutely dominates any conversation he's a part of and does so with a (intentional or not) cocky sniff tone that can grate on the ear. As to Mino, I'm unsure if he's everyday host material. We'll see. I'm not going to bother touching on today's show, but the chemistry was pretty much as expected. I do think making their show 2 hours was smart on Cat's part. As I said, I will give both shows more than a fair shake, but I'm not optimistic. Finally, I'm thinking today is one of celebration for B&S, K&C Masterpiece, and GBaG. For the first time, ever, they might have a real shot at competing with TT during their slots. Finally, finally, I do wonder if this is (a) going to impact THL's ratings and (b) is the beginning of a fairly swift and steep numbers fall off for TT cume and its perception as a titan.
Cat's made a lot of big moves since '20. Thus far they've all worked out, almost magically so. We'll soon find out if the magic continues to hold its spell over the DFdub.
I think they’re going to see a brief surge of subscribers, but deep down, didn’t people listen to TT for sports? About half their content posted today was what I like to call “not sports”. Are they avoiding a lot of sports because of non compete issues? Are sports fans going to sit through a podcast where they’re interviewing random comedian? I think fans of Dan and Jake will, but show me the Ben diagram between TDZ fans, TT/sports fans and people willing to pay for a podcast. I’ve got other thoughts, but I’ll split these up so it doesn’t read like a James Joyce novel. C
Plainsman said earlier that Catlin was his leader. Put yourself in Catlins shoes and tell us what you realistically would have done. And when I say realistically, assume Hansen, Doocy et al aren’t doing 3 hours of radio. Who would you have hired? What’s the P1 reaction if they hired anyone besides Mcclarin from out of town. How would they feel about some dude from Denver or OKC? Already seeing posts about how Monty, DJ, etc got screwed in this . I wonder what the reaction would be if, like the Freaks PD, they being in some outsider that doesn’t know the other station players, doesn’t know the history, etc. I think heritage stations, and clearly the ticket can be considered heritage, are the hardest to make changes in. I don’t know if these changes are good, but willing to give them a fair shake. And he’s a thought- if these changes font work out, in a year if Bass and Mino aren’t cutting it (I think Donnie is fine, he carried 10-12 for a while) then they can make changes, but Catlin et al can say they tried. And as we are finding out, a more sincere try than TDZ made in renegotiating their contract. C
2 things-,rereading my Mcclarin comment above, at least mcclarin was somewhat of a known commodity. Known to other ticket hosts, etc. probably easier to get team buy in from DM, THL, etc if it’s a name they’ve heard of, as opposed to a guy sports starter kit from someplace like Little Rock. 2- I’d love to know the ratings for WIP on Sunday mornings. Do they outdraw elf? Can they keep Elf’s audience around? What were there ratings like compared to that time slot pre WIP? All of those would be factors to me if I’m thinking of promoting that show. As is I think the reason Monty is the producer, it’s got to be a hard sell to corporate to promote a talk show host who does one show a week for 2-3 hours, to full time host on a heritage, Marconi winning station. People think Monty’s funny, brings a lot to the table, etc. will now see if he can do that 5 days a week. See Julie Dobbs for the hard lesson of stepping from bit player to a starring role. C
Sean and Mino have only been producers for one year. Barely any track record. They likely are paid dirt cheap, and would fall in line easily to mgmt. They promoted Davey who wasn't part of any show. I am team rant, so go Dave. But Monty needed to be vetted, what kind of logic is that? lol
I've seen the point you made, and others have said similar things re: the supposed offer and bad faith. I think its worth discussing, because it goes to Dan & Jake's character- the bad faith allegation is a serious thing. The claim is that, because Dan & Jake knew that Cumulus would say no to a component of their offer, that is was made in bad faith. How else are they supposed to learn whether the answer is no? In my mind, an actual act of bad faith would be Dan & Jake presenting an offer that they themselves wouldn't agree to- which appears to include some sort of digital income rights. If Cumulus answer is no (or Dan's answer is that its a non-starter) then there's just no deal. But that's different than bad faith. Who knows what really transpired, maybe (hopefully) we all will some day. I think we can all agree it would be compelling radio!
I would say that the bad faith thing will shake out in 6 months. If they end up on TF, I will take it as this whole thing was a ruse. They acted in bad faith to get new contracts to try to make themselves look good while the mean man (Cumulus) wouldn't let them do their own thing and podcast. If they were to leave and be quiet for 6 months and ended up at TF, most of the Ticket fanbase would be totally against them. So doing it this way allows them to try to make some money over the next 6 months until the NC is up. That is, if they can survive the Cumulus cease and desist. But as has been pointed out, there are a lot of things that appear to be done very specifically to prevent them getting in trouble over their podcast. Also, why announce the 1 year "discounted rate" if you can't provide that yet from what I have read. Time will tell, but it seems to me like this is a calculated plan to move to another station where they will be paid better and still smell like roses.
As for them paying Jake as a producer to do a hosting gig, I don't think I buy that. They may not have paid him true host money, but if he was helping pay Julie and others' salaries, he had to be making more than the ~$50k or whatever Sirios said he was making as midday producer.
I do wish them the best, but I don't have time in my life to pay for audio content. The couple podcasts I listen to are free (when I am mowing on the weekend) and during the week, it is always on the ticket. I feel pretty good about the 2 new shows and will definitely listen. As has been said, drive time is where the money is and I would think a lot of people leave it on during the day as filler.
One last thing, I spoke with 3 different people a couple weeks back who listen quite a lot to TT to ask them what they thought about this situation. Not a single one of them even knew they hadn't been on the air in a month. Of the 7 or 8 people I know who would call themselves P1's, not a single one is subscribed or has plans to and I am squarely in the middle of the men 25-54 demo.
I think DandJ were not happy with their contracts so they played out their contracts and asked for what they wanted, didn’t get it and will try it on their own which will be a legal fight for 6 months which if they can afford it may help with attracting attention to their platform and if that doesn’t work there are other teams out there who will pay for their services. They contributed to helping build the Ticket and don’t owe the other host anything beyond what they have already delivered. If George doesn’t agree then that’s on him.
@Something Clever Who are you addressing? At least two people have commented on that. One, me, added in the Points For Sex Club aspect. It's not a question of creepiness, it's not a question of the morality of either JK's or MM's past actions, it's not a question of the actions per se, rather, it's a question of those who selectively direct outrage at one but not the other for actions contemporary society holds as egregious.
@See UNT I appreciate your sentiment but disagree. Why would they or anyone for that matter put on offer something they themselves would not agree to? I don't follow you. If, and I do mean IF, they put forth stipulations that they knew no company would agree to, then such an act could be considered an act of bad faith. It could be seen as loading the dice for a desired outcome. Sure, if they were given those terms they'd take them. But, once more, no one in their situation in their right mind would think as such. By the way, if, and again IF, the terms they sought are true, they are terms that (as I said in my previous comment) no one has ever secured. No one. Please, if you are anyone else has an actual counterexample, do post it up for all to see. Understand what they asked for was tantamount to getting paid twice, from two different sources, for the same job.
It was a response to C's comment. Specifically the last sentence. "I’ve seen Reddit today, peeing your pants is cool because it’s Jake and we like Jake, but Mcclarin is totally creepy?" I guess we have different definitions of creepy because yes, I find one of those things creepy and one just dumb/silly, and it has nothing to do with whether or not I like the guy. Yes I do like Jake, but if next year he splits with his wife and starts dating a high-schooler, I'm probably going to have a hard time listening to him ever again. Also, just went back and read your comment. Once again I'll defend Jake. No I don't believe the points for sex thing is even close to as bad as the MM situation. Mainly because one was a 16 year old being stupid with his friends, the other was and adult male flirting with an extended prison sentence.
Regarding Monty not becoming a host, these decisions aren't as simple as "Hey everyone online thinks he's great so we should promote him!" If it were up to what Reddit thinks, Corby would be gone and Sturm would be moved to 10-12 lol. When it comes to resume and experience, McClearin, Bass, and Mino all had the superior resume that you could sell management on to approve of these moves. McClearin has experience hosting M-F, not only in Birmingham but also in this market previously for ESPN. Bass and Mino have had lots of roles at the station but more recently, they can point to their respective shows' successful ratings this year as producers and also their work ethic/reliability in showing up every day as either a Ticker anchor or Board Op previously.
Monty finally has a chance to start building that resume so in the future, if their show succeeds then he'll be next in line for a host spot. I think even he realizes that's how it works considering he seems pretty happy right now. So there's no reason for anyone to feel like he got screwed.
Well said, Just A Spare. Anon 9:21pm, I guess you either forgot to include a name or didn't read Plainsman's new rules, which means you're comment will be deleted. Nevertheless I agree with you. It was exactly as I said earlier today: Sean would barely let another voice in edgewise. One show in the books, but this is just like Diamond Talk or any other show other than The Shake Joint (where he would defer to Jake) that Sean's been a part of. Always with the pre say that he seems like a good dude and has been a good soldier, of course. I'm hoping Mino begins to assert himself. Elsewise we're going to have something akin to the original M&M show on our hands. Machine and Monty. Remember that one? My word, Machine wouldn't stop talking. The few moments he let Monty say anything, Machine would immediately begin talking over him. Not to mention how he knew everything about everything. Didn't have to ask him, he let you know up front. It wasn't until Monty got from out under that crap and teamed with Mino that we discovered how great he is. Let's hope Mino takes the mic and if needs be forces his points across. And let's also hope that Sean becomes aware of his tendency to hog the mic and works on having a real dialogue. If they can do that, I think they have a real shot. My concern is that they won't and will be a middling affair that you can find on The FAN (B&S are well below middling in my estimate).
Yeah that was me, keep forgetting to add a name. I had forgotten about how annoying machine was but yeah, Sean is at risk of ending up the same. Very arrogant and wordy, not an easy or enjoyable listen.
I think you can put Donnie in the “good dude, from what I know” category but I think he has a bag of not much to nothing. Maybe as the 3rd wheel but not as a host that I will listen to regularly. Norm had to go but Donnie offers the most generic opinions and no one calls him on being just like Bass or Ty.
I think Sean will end up being kinda like Bob in the dynamic. Monty and Mino will be fun and have good sports points, Sean will be the straight man. I think Monty will contribute a lot, maybe even more than Blake.
Until something concrete emerges re: TDZ, its future/possible future home, and any legit pending court/legal issues, I'm done. We now know TT lineup. They are what they are and what they are are uninspiring but I get it. Safe stuff. I think as someone else said, this might be where TT regresses to the cume mean of its competitors. No longer will they have a 6am-7pm juggernaut. All things come to an end and I think we're witnessing one here. I mean, c'mon, you could hear it in the voices of The Musers and THL. They *know.* We all know. Happy for Sean and Mino. But yeah. The juice has run dry.
Been a crazy month and change in Ticket world. I've never seen so much toxicity, immaturity, trolling, experts who aren't, and insiders who aren't in all my interwebs days. Greggo's axing and the breakup of the OG HL, Rhyner's faux retirement, Danny/Sirois/Julie leaving, and even the freakin' Freak's advent. . . . .none of it compares to the utter online and even on air chaos, insanity, a midday show that's been around 3 years leaving has caused. F'n nuts. I honestly don't get it. I'm a fan of THZ. I'm a fan of Jake's sports talk and Dan's willingness to say aloud what others think but aren't willing to say. All that, for sure. Sheez Louise man, it isn't Stern in his prime. It isn't OG HL in its prime. It isn't Bill Simmons. I can go on. Nuts.
@Something Clever That's fine that you think using another human in a purely instrumental fashion is OK because the user is young and dumb, and find a (and I agree) creepy but not illegal (it's not illegal to go to anyone's prom, regardless of age) action to be reprehensible. If you read my comment as you claim, then you'd have read that I said in now way should Jake be judged or punished retroactively by the public. That includes myself. I'm not going to go any further into this matter because to do so would be to engage in a subject that in my opinion is not for me to discuss. If there were any legal issues involved, they would have been made manifest by now. There hasn't been. My comment was not about whose actions are creepy or creepier. It pertained to the selective nature of who gets a pass, who doesn't, and why.
Mike "The Machine" Marshall, sorry to say, may have been my least favorite on-air guy on The Ticket, ever. He thought it was his show; Justin Montemayor, a much more appealing on-air personality, just got shut down.
I wonder how long mino and bass have together before changes are made?? A Few rating books? I also wonder with Monty in a producer role now if he will get a host gig down the road..I hope so would hate to see him leave kinda like when Danny and Sirois bailed
Perhaps we should let Mino and Bass do some shows before we dismiss 1-3. It's not going to be nearly as bad as some are predicting, and I expect it to be pretty good. Mino's got Justin for backup.
Cat will (1) hear the show and decide whether Sean is just not the right voice for the station as a full-time host, and (2) if it really does suck, which I doubt, he'll get an earful from the P1, and, (3) if it really, really, really sucks, the ratings will show it. But that would be a long, long way down the road.
Personally -- I think I'll be just fine with Sean/David with Justin producing.
TDZ now up to 254k USD/year of subscription and climbing steadily by the hour. It is certainly at a minimum some nice severance if their plan is to go to a competitor in 6 months. I still think they have been convinced by other online creators that their is a pile of gold for them venturing out on their own. We will see.
What is this number based on? Where are you getting it? How do you know their subs are climbing steadily by the hour? Their ratings numbers wouldn't support that and they have little to no presence outside of this market.
I take DnJ at their word that they're not going to go head to head against The Ticket working for a competitor. I do think they had no intention of signing a new contract with Cumulus and made a joke out of the process. All of it was just what Dan thinks Andy Kaufman or Norm MacDonald would've done. Too close to the story line for it not to be what happened. Dan can't help himself and Jake's right there with him. My guess is as soon as they're making enough money, you'll see Blake quit The Ticket and he and TC will be involved. I'll go one better. I think at least for the short to mid run this thing is going to work. Who knows they might actually earn close to if not more than they were with Cumulus and get to be their own boss while doing it. Their stuff isn't for me. At least not on the daily and having to pay for it. Don't get me wrong, I subscribe to a few pods. But they're topic specific. What DnJ have to offer is nothing I can't get free from other places, including The Ticket. To me they're no better or worse than anything else out there. If I'm gonna pay for content I want it to be something exclusive or at least the way it's gone about is unique. There's never been anything unique about their opinions or approach to anything. But that's me. Seems like there might be a lot of you out there that feel differently. Hope it works out for them. One of the pods I pay for is about ancient history. Funny how empires most always fall. 1000 little cuts that mostly go unnoticed or aren't taken too seriously, then suddenly out of nowhere an event happens that no one could foresee and that took place when everything seemed to be humming along or even kicking ass. Then all at once the whole thing collapses. Don't be shocked if The Ticket suddenly seems mortal. All shows. Not just the soft middle.
@OU812 that doesn’t account for Patreon’s 8/12 percent. and I also think @Nandor raises a good point (at least on sentiment). Suspect a number of the new DumbZone P1s will check it out for a bit, realize they aren’t really using it, and drop off.
Subscriber numbers for TDZ Patreon today aren’t super instructive. If it finds a happy plateau and is growing reasonably at 6 months, then I think the concept will be pretty well proven.
Montemayor? The name alone sounds Hispanic. And unless we know who else applied I think it’s always problematic to throw up the diversity issue. I heard the show intro at 2, Bass has been there for almost 20 years, Mino more than a decade. If random dude with some on air experience in other market applies, what does it take to jump them ahead of known commoditys who you know their history, their work ethic, etc. and if remember correctly the last woman that they hired for a full time gig, stepped back from that to go part time because she wanted to do spend more time with her family. This person gave up a full time gig where she basically worked while her kids were in school. And after less than a year, took a different full time job that involved not being with her family every morning, then took a different shift for that employer that involves not being home every day after school with her kids. So maybe a little gun shy about hiring a woman. Assuming any applied. C
>One last thing, I spoke with 3 different people a couple weeks back who listen quite a lot to TT to ask them what they thought about this situation. Not a single one of them even knew they hadn't been on the air in a month.
you talked to 3 people who "listen a lot to the ticket" and not a single one of them noticed that 1 of the 4 shows on the ticket hadn't been on the air for a full month? and that a second one had a guy retire for 2 weeks of the month? and they didn't hear any of the shows talking about it? or the announcements for new shows? they didn't say "you mean norm?"
i'll take things that never happened for $500, Alex.
no need to blatantly not tell the truth to get your point of "no one will miss them and the replacements will be fine" across.
>Of the 7 or 8 people I know who would call themselves P1's, not a single one is subscribed or has plans to and I am squarely in the middle of the men 25-54 demo.
I think one of the worst parts about the Hang Zone leaving is that they were the keepers of Ticket historical audio with the daily open, the 2:15 look back segment, playing drops throughout the show, etc. I’m afraid the legacy of old bits is going to suffer without them.
You certainly read a lot into that. I never said these people didn't know about Norm, not sure where you got that. They all knew about him retiring. Again, this was a couple weeks back when no show was talking about D&J at all. What they didn't realize at the time was that the HZ had been off more than normal dry dock before the news stories started coming out. Nothing more, nothing less. I thought it seemed like had been gone longer than normal and searched out sources to see what was going on. At that point, it had been 3 out of 4 weeks they had been out. Heck, at that point, many folks on TT reddit were still saying just normal dry dock, don't worry.
Never said or intended to say no one will miss them. I certainly will as I liked the HZ a lot and I listened to them everyday. I e-mailed them regularly. But, when faced with leaving the app running all day vs switching to a (paid for) podcast and back, I will leave it on the app. I hope the new hosts do great as I think most folks on here agree with wanting to see TT keep providing compelling radio. I also hope D&J do great. They are doing well so far with their subscribers but it is far too early to know how they will be long term.
As for the 7-8, I fully understand that is not a huge sample size, but that is the circle I am in. Take it with a grain of salt, just threw it out there as I don't know anyone subscribing to it. I think it will be tough to make it that way, but they may very well be able to.
I don’t think the point was that a survey of eight friends was somehow a reliable sample size. Just an anecdotal illustration that most people-most TT listeners- don’t care nearly as much as those of us who care to read and/or post about the radio business here and on Reddit. TT does have a rabid and loyal following. And I’d bet that it inspires more this sort of thing than most or any other local station in the country. But still comparatively small.
However, there has obviously been a great deal of interest in TDZ. A few thousand subscribers is not much compared to the total number of listeners to TT. But it is significant to the bottom line of a podcast. But as others have pointed out, I believe that TDZ numbers will fall once all the behind-the-scenes TT gossip has been aired. I will be interested to see what the numbers are in a few months.
@its just me obviously a small sample size but I know what you mean. Most people I know that listen to the ticket it’s only musers or hardline. The hardcore fans, the ones that show up on Reddit or this blog, are more likely to listen all day. But that percent is probably smaller than the casual commute listener.
I think the people predicting some precipitous drop in subscribers are the same people who thought THZ missing for 3 weeks was just standard dry dock behavior
@TheDunhamZone I think the people who won't be surprised and even expect there to be a drop off of subs-even a precipitous one-are being pragmatic and are basing their view off probability. Probability grounded in historical data. Correlation does not entail causation. Plus, it's poor form to impute your own biases onto another.
when matt mcclearin was on the ticket, i used to think it was really weird that he was allowed to do local brewery reviews. i was told many times to not speak about local breweries. didn’t give too much of a care so kinda shrugged and moved on.
but it is strange. and this is in no way an indictment of matt, who i have always found to be a very friendly and talented person. why they wanted to jam us so bad, as opposed to other people.
the reality is: a bunch of people who deserved better opportunities are doing better now. the rules of what you are and aren’t allowed to say over there are, and have always been, nonsense. i just want people to feel good and do well.
Sorry I think my consecutive comments caused some confusion. The mcclearin stuff is from twitter and still up. The Dan still doing WTDS is from the latest DZ episode that was just posted on Patreon.
I found out now. He’s catching some ridicule in the comments and I somewhat agree. Move on and get over it. The guy that moved to Alabama and got to host a show after Jake did was given special treatment? Ok.
Very interesting opening comment from Jake on the Patreon today. He said isn't it something that some at the ticket get to make money off of various outside endeavors like Substack or Twitch but implied that he and Dan were blocked from similar outside endeavors.
It’s probably explainable honestly. Bob writes, gordo donates his $ from twitch. Jake had IJB. They probably wanted something that e wasn’t exactly allowed by others at the ticket either but he was ambiguous to spark curiosity.
But what endeavors? Cumulus pitches themselves as an audio company, not a radio company. If someone wants to do a substack, probably not an issue, a twitch stream that’s not sports content, probably not a red flag. You want to do a podcast that’s probably more of an issue. And isn’t Jake “I’m not allowed to make money off outside endeavors” Kemp writing for D magazine? So he’s not allowed to except when he is allowed to? The more I hear from Dan and Jake the less I believe them. They’re making generalized claims that are easily disproven. Have some balls and produce some proof. C
And as a sales guy I can think of good reason they don’t want prime time talent doing brewery reviews. Any idea what live spots go for? It’s a premium, I’ll tell you that. Why would a GM or PD want a host doing an extended live spot for a business for no financial gain? And Corby endorses Woodfird reserve, Jake did some Rum company. Maybe the bosses didn’t want talent yo be seen indirectly endorsing an alcohol competitor. But they don’t care if spare weekend talent does it, they’re not selling some weekender in an endorsement deal. Like I said the more Jake talks the more it sounds like sour grapes. He’s coming across as a whiny petulant child. C
Dumb Zone spent 30 minutes in their last free post talking about their departure. Forty eight preceeding minutes meandering through Baker Mayfield and foot fetish talk. Final section with their guest’s background. Doesn’t anybody have friends anymore? Is the popularity of DZ simply guys talking bc people are too (fill in problem) to sit down and listen and talk to someone else? Still not personally finding their subjects compelling, but that is personal interest. They used a clip from Jon Stewart. Stewart is neither completely right or wrong in the way he portrays corporations. If a corporation fails and thousands are left without jobs…huge numbers of people flip out. If a corporation is propped up…people flip out. I don’t know what is “enough” profit for a corporation in order for its radio hosts to be compensated appropriately. EVERYONE is greedy. Some more so than others. The more I hear from these two…they are no different from anybody else. Not Cumulus overlords. Not Akeesh. Not me.
In the interest of transparency, I am hardly ever going to side with a corporation over a person. That said, if it's true that Jake didn't get any increase in pay after becoming a host he might be justified in having some sour grapes. It would seem the Ticket isn't the dream job for them that many of us think it would be for us.
All things being equal, Cumulus and iHeart being the same soulless entity in different clothes, I'd probably work for the one that put the most money in my pocket. If I could make the choice to not work for either soulless entity and make it on my own that would be the ideal choice. I hope they succeed at it, I think that would be a lot better for their overall happiness and quality of life.
I believe Jake didn’t get an increase initially, and last year during his hold out, gave them a number and eventually got it. All for them to do it again a year later lol.
if anyone believes that Jake didn't get a pay raise when promoted from producer to tier one host - you'll believe anything.
there is this weird assumption that moving to a hosting position suddenly awards you the same, or in the same range, as the person you're replacing - even if you personally have zero previous experience in that role (FT, major market host). It's a weird and entitled POV that those of us who have been doing this a very long time, find hilariously deluded.
(sorry, forgot name) if anyone believes that Jake didn't get a pay raise when promoted from producer to tier one host - you'll believe anything.
there is this weird assumption that moving to a hosting position suddenly awards you the same, or in the same range, as the person you're replacing - even if you personally have zero previous experience in that role (FT, major market host). It's a weird and entitled POV that those of us who have been doing this a very long time, find hilariously deluded.
I haven’t read every single comment on this thread or knew in the past but I don’t remember anyone saying that they expected Jake to get paid exactly the same as the person he was replacing.
I myself have seen at every job I’ve had, someone be given new duties/promoted without a pay raise. It’s pretty common in multiple industries. Not sure why you think anyone who believes that happened is gullible and would believe anything.
because in this industry, at that station's level, it does not happen. You go from producer to host, you get a pay raise. When I hear Jake claim (or his guest retell the story of Jake informing him) he didn't get a raise - I think that is a lie.
And, just for the sake of argument, if someone was offered that opportunity with out a pay raise - they were a dipshit to accept it in the first place. (and please note, my comment included "same or in the same range").
Let's try this: If Norm was banking $300K, Matt should now expect what? (and he's got an actual hosting resumé). If Dan or Jake were getting $250K - Mino should expect what?
Knob, I'm no Jake fanboy by any stretch, but you do not seem to be acknowledging that Jake was promoted almost simultaneously with the initial Covid shutdown. It was not a normal time, and so I would find it very believable that they would say "let's talk raise once things return to normal" and Jake would accept that since he's now an official host.
well, good thing all of that is provable with pay stubs. but I also don't believe that is the limitation of his claim. maybe I have a misunderstanding of what lack of pay raise was communicated in that episode.
I don’t have a response to the “norm got paid this, what should mino make.” I’m not arguing that Jake should have been paid the same as Bob or that Mino should make what Norm was making. No one is arguing that.
As for the dipshits that new duties/promotions/titles without a raise. We can always go back and forth over how people should be more financially stable, etc. But in reality a lot of people don’t have jobs lined up or a ton in savings to be able to say no to their employer and risk being let go or having to make the choice to walk away. They might be dipshits to some but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen.
Back to the “in this industry” it doesn’t happen. Ok I’ll take your word for it. I don’t know the industry. But I do know mine and in mine it does happen. I’m sure that in the industry of other people here it happens. Because of our experience and what we’ve seen it makes total sense that we would assume it happens in other industries. Believing someone because we’ve seen it happen doesn’t mean we’d “believe anything.”
and, furthermore - let's play out this even further. Assuming Jake's claim of COVID caused him not to get a pay raise is 100% true - and later, as promised, given a raise - what's the beef? That it wasn't the amount he expected? He accepted that deal. Go back to my earlier question about expectation setting based on experience and reality.
To reiterate, I simply do not believe, as I heard in the episode as told by the guest, never got a pay raise from producer to host from the jump and what really happened is he'd set an expectation of "Bob money range" and got something way less. This is similar to the Sirios telling of his complaint that he's told publicly and his expectations to get Norm's role and make "something close to Norm money".
Yeah my issue isn’t with what you believe. I get it’s what you believe, I understand the position, I agree with some parts of it. No issue there.
My issue was with you thinking anyone else who doesn’t see things your way would just believe anything. I’m pretty sure a lot of us here are professionals with established careers that have experiences that have formed our views. We don’t just believe anything anyone says because we’re dumb.
So you're also then saying that Bob is lying by saying he got no pay raise when he got moved to drive time with the Hardline and no raise for the next 3 years after that
In my industry, I have seen many people given more responsibility without an increase in pay. I have been one of those people. As someone who works in an industry that was heavily affected by Covid, we still haven't seen the money back from the pay cuts we took. One might be considered lucky if they work in an industry where this hasn't happened.
Jake might be lying I agree. In the words of the great Gregory House "Everybody lies." I don't have any information to dispute him though so I have to accept him at his word and temper that with a healthy dose of skepticism.
PART 1
ReplyDeleteI’m pleased to see so many Confessors adopting names, getting a head start on the new rule. I will try to remind people who come to the site of the “Anonymous = Deletion” policy with every post so that even new readers are not surprised.
I will probably only delete the content of the post, so that people are reminded when encountering the message that “this message has been removed by a blog administrator” that Anonymous comments are no longer accepted, no matter how good they are.
Other than deletion, I don’t have any way to enforce rules about naming itself, but I would respectfully request Confessors to observe the following – let’s call them guidelines – when selecting names:
• Not too vulgar.
• Don’t use names of real people unless it is very obvious you are not that person. For example, I believe someone posted as “Grubes1310” a post or two ago, which I believe is the name that that nice young Michael Gruber used when he would check in from time to time.
• By the same token, don’t use a name that is confusingly similar to another Confessor’s.
• I would prefer that you not use variations of “Plainsman,” but if it’s clearly a bit I probably won’t delete.
• Variations of “Anonymous” are OK, i.e., “Not Anonymous,” “Very Anonymous,” “Anonymous-a-Poppin” are acceptable.
• It works better if you pick a name and stick with it.
• Anything that, in my own subjective and unreviewable judgment, annoys me unduly.
END OF PART 1
PART 2
ReplyDeleteI’m wondering if we have some new readers, because I’m seeing a lot of name-calling and other unacceptable content that violate the Rules of the Confessional. It might be worthwhile for some of you to revisit:
http://myticketconfession.blogspot.com/search?q=rules+of+the+confessional
I’ve been away and busy and without time to spend much of it deleting comments, but there are probably a half-dozen in the last post that I should have sent packing. Things are easing up schedule-wise and I’ll try to check the site more often. Just so everyone knows:
• Keep vulgarity to an absolute minimum.
• No name-calling. And men and women, I’m talking about even mild name-calling, like “snowflake” and “haters.” If I force you not to use stuff like this, you’ll give us better content, or keep your own counsel.
• No impugning the intelligence of a Confessor.
• No impugning the life experience of a Confessor.
• No impugning the education of a Confessor.
• No impugning the Ticket knowledge of a Confessor, or his or her listening habits.
• Keep woke and anti-woke commentary – in fact, political commentary of all kinds -- to a minimum. In fact, a minimum is probably too much. OK to criticize a host for excessive politicizing, but if it turns into Confessor v. Confessor, it’s gone.
• No posts obviously intended to start a fight.
• Perhaps most importantly: If you’re angry, don’t post. A commentary that may not violate any of these rules but just gratuitously twists off without much of anything useful to impart is nothing more than a lightning rod for more useless commentary. And it’s boring.
• Anything that, in my own subjective and unreviewable judgment, annoys me unduly.
These are interesting times at The Ticket and Dallas sports-talk radio generally. MTC has become a place where, increasingly, valuable information and commentary appears. Let’s keep it a clubhouse where ladies and gentlemen behave in that way, except when I have to yell at assholes.
Thank you for shopping at My Ticket Confession.
END OF PART 2
" Perhaps most importantly: If you’re angry, don’t post. A commentary that may not violate any of these rules but just gratuitously twists off without much of anything useful to impart is nothing more than a lightning rod for more useless commentary. And it’s boring."
ReplyDeleteno comment :D
And four, it already won for Dances with Wolves
ReplyDeletereposting this here from the very end of last post re: some Singh comments re: $$ and podcasting
ReplyDeleteFlagrant, the podcast Akkash Singh is on, is bringing in about $80,000 / month with about 17,000 patrons / month. Spent most of the last 3 years in the Patreon Video top 10 listing.
Well that would give me some hope if I were D&J that a couple of spares can make that much money podcasting, but I'm assuming they're getting a national audience through standup, YT, etc. A bit harder when you're known as local sports talk guys in one market.
ReplyDeleteThe Dumb Zone Patreon already over 20,000 dollars a month in revenue and counting. They have proven that they can secure a six figure income each even before side promo deals with companies. Conservatively you can easily see each host earning over 300k and doing it on their own terms once they fully monetize their potential. 500k each not out of the question.
ReplyDeleteYes, I can totally see media buyers, overwhelmingly young women, lining up to spend ad dollars on a podcast where the host just talked about taking illegal drugs and pissing his own pants. Totally an advertiser friendly topic. And for all those that will respond with “it’s just a story, a radio bit, theater of the mind,”, etc, how do we feel about the mcclarin teenage prom story? I’ve seen Reddit today, peeing your pants is cool because it’s Jake and we like Jake, but Mcclarin is totally creepy?
DeleteC
So just to clarify, you feel that a 30 year old taking a high schooler to her prom is on the same level of creepiness as a dude getting wasted and peeing his pants? If a buddy of mine did one of those, I'd give him hell about it for the rest of his life. If he did the other, I'd distance from him and would certainly never allow him near either of my daughters.
DeleteI think you have a very interesting definition of conservative, OU812.
ReplyDelete@OU812 you can see them "conservatively" 2.5 Xing the current audience? that's just to get to 50k / month.
ReplyDeletei think there is upside here but for them to be netting +1m / year or +83k / month would put them in the top 5 podcast on the platform and probably somewhere in the top 50 in total patrons. that isn't conservative.
I think Akash seriously overestimates their popularity. Listening to TDZ podcast now, he’s talking about how famous they are in DFW. Reality check - they got a 10 share of men 25-54. So of all the men in DFW, they got 10% of the ones using radio. And I’m assuming they’re just writing off women in the market, unless the story of Jake pissing his own pants why tripping on X with Sirois is supposed to attract the ladies. So they’re known to a niche audience if men, in one city, with limited appeal outside of that target, and with no real outside talent to draw new listeners. Akaash does stand up, he’s got a way to draw in new subscribers. Do Dan and Jake? Because, of that 10 share, how many will subscribe, how many will stay subscribed. Can they sustain their business model?
ReplyDeleteC
For those here who are unfamiliar with the podcasting industry - go take a gander at any "Top 100" podcasts - and these are the free ones - and take a peek at the number that are content from former radio shows (hosts). On the Apple list, I think it's less than five, and even those are shoulder content to an existing radio thing or nationally known names.
ReplyDeleteThe reality is 99% of all "successful" podcasts are not current or ex-radio people. The pods that are extra-ordinarily profitable in terms of subscriptions are definitely not of the "former radio show that believed it could make even more money via podcasting". If we believe that TDZ were offered - just to make up a number - $250K each from Cumulus that is $500K total in subscriptions just to match it, but you have to take into account what Pateron charges (8-12% depending on your account level). Let's not forget taxes and all the other up-front costs. Certainly they could find sponsors - but who? Ticket clients? Their attractiveness to agencies will only come after some period of establishing their product.
When they are told about this comic's riches and his podcast making millions - it's just not as simple as "we can do x% less than him and still make even more money". IJB even had an actual radio show that would occasionally mention it, and I believe they topped out at $5K a month in subscriber revenue. They don't have a radio show to promote this on, and I suspect here soon are going to get tangled in a protracted legal battle.
Math estimates they'll need to sustain a round number of about 6000 subscribers at $7 a month (this doesn't take into consideration the talk of a $69 annual rate, a 20% discount) and sustain that thru the normal course of "pateron churn" (credit cards expiring, changing, cancelations, etc) to get to $500K annually. After a week, they're just under 3K subs.
Very likely they could hit 6K and be a pair of happy podcasters - but I think we all know how this story ends now, don't we?
Not a chance they were offered 250k each. I’d be surprised if it was 250k for both.
DeleteOK, I listened to the 7/31 DZ podcast. My biggest takeaway: Akaash is really talented at this and would make a fantastic host. Kind of made me want to check out his podcast. D&J by comparison were extremely muted and meandering.
ReplyDeleteJust for fun, I checked The Dumb Zone Patreon site, then again an hour later. They gained about 15 new patrons in that time.
ReplyDeleteIf peeing your pants is cool, consider me Mile Davis.
ReplyDeleteIt’s almost like radio broadcasting and podcasting aren’t the same thing. And being good at one doesn’t make you good or successful at the other. Off the top of my head here’s my issue- it’s active listening vs passive listening. Most of my radio listening is passive, while I’m driving, as background noise as I’m working, etc. I’m a more attentive listener to my podcast subscriptions. Because I’m there for news, info or opinion on (subject) and most podcasts get in, tell their story, and get out. TDZ is much more meandering. Which was fine when you had 3 hours in the middle of the day to fill. It’s still painful to listen to the fact they can’t get in and out of a subject, they don’t transition well, etc. as podcasters they’re just not that good.
ReplyDeleteC
And there's the Jake Points for Sex Club back in h.s. How many have had their lives destroyed 8 years down the road for Tweeting out something vile, unconsciable when they were 16? A lot. But as C said, we like X so we're cool with Y/pretend like Y doesn't exist. Let me be clear, I in NO WAY think Jake should be judged on his very shitty h.s. behavior. Reddit has lost its collective mind. At this point the page should be renamed r/thedumbzone. What some over there are trying to do re MM is just awful. Also interesting is the Xing pissing story because it involves Sirois. I'm still of mind that that's been the destination all along. Let's say it isn't. Let's say, as Surly claims, Akaash is the reason. Then they obviously never negotiated in good faith. Just to head it off at the pass, asking for things that no other host anywhere in the business has ever received (including the Sterns of the world) is not negotiating in good faith. It's doing exactly what C and Plainsman have come to/are coming to believe: that an no point did they have any intention of staying at TT, and this was a play to make them look like they did their best to stay but The Man forced their frail, collective hand. If they aren't going to TF, then I'm afraid they're going to learn a most bitter to swallow pill of a lesson. One with irrevocable consequences. Listen to commonsense, not a small but vocal group who will dump you at the drop of a dime. And certainly not to someone who is a unicorn in a particular endeavor telling you how simple it all is. It's the equivalent to the late night how to get rich selling realestate infomercial. Yes, the dude is beyond wealthy and yes he has a formula that worked for him. But for him. You aren't him. He's the unicorn, you are not. As a former Ticket host liked to say and say often, "It's just the way it is."
ReplyDeleteCall me skeptical of them holding their current subscriber base. A certain amount of people are going to subscribe for a month to get the teased Ticket scuttlebutt. After a month goes by, they are going to be topped out. All their fanboys will have subscribed but I don't see how they attract new listeners and the number will slowly bleed off.
ReplyDeleteI will give the new 10-3 reconfiguration a shot, and a healthy one at that. But I must say that I'm neither terribly excited, nor am I hopeful. While I did think McClearin's last go through on TT (Sun with JJT *can we at least be thankful he wasn't brought back*) was pretty dang good, I'm not following the logic here of making him a Varsity host. My guess is that this move came from on high, and was not of Cat/Bennett's doing. Recall that Matt was a Ticker/Johnny on the Spot employee who was given a Sunday show with Scot Harrison (MaSS). Not too terribly long after that, Cumulus moved them to Birmingham pm drive. After a shakeup, Scot moved onto other ventures and Matt returned here and elsewhere in the Cumulus cluster. He was then given another Varsity slot (solo) back in Birmingham, and now he's back here in a Varsity role. Cumulus or someone in high places there holds a lot of stock in Matt. That's why I think he's here, and that it was not Cat/Bennett's call. In time, and barring any return of Matt's TMI/ick factor, I'll bet the pairing will do fine and the numbers will reflect it. Nothing standout, but solid enough to remain #1 or a close 2nd depending on the month. Sean and Mino, that I'm not so sure of. Hate to be a broken record/a part of the echo chamber, but while he seems like a real good guy who's more than paid his dues, Sean absolutely dominates any conversation he's a part of and does so with a (intentional or not) cocky sniff tone that can grate on the ear. As to Mino, I'm unsure if he's everyday host material. We'll see. I'm not going to bother touching on today's show, but the chemistry was pretty much as expected. I do think making their show 2 hours was smart on Cat's part. As I said, I will give both shows more than a fair shake, but I'm not optimistic. Finally, I'm thinking today is one of celebration for B&S, K&C Masterpiece, and GBaG. For the first time, ever, they might have a real shot at competing with TT during their slots. Finally, finally, I do wonder if this is (a) going to impact THL's ratings and (b) is the beginning of a fairly swift and steep numbers fall off for TT cume and its perception as a titan.
ReplyDeleteCat's made a lot of big moves since '20. Thus far they've all worked out, almost magically so. We'll soon find out if the magic continues to hold its spell over the DFdub.
It was a pleasure to join the Hardline today. Gonna have to pay Norm a visit soon.
ReplyDeleteWould you mind elaborating, Don Marconioni? I'm not following, and I might not be the only one.
ReplyDeleteLet’s just say the picks of the Pole ain’t been too profitable for Don Marconioni.
ReplyDeleteI think they’re going to see a brief surge of subscribers, but deep down, didn’t people listen to TT for sports? About half their content posted today was what I like to call “not sports”. Are they avoiding a lot of sports because of non compete issues? Are sports fans going to sit through a podcast where they’re interviewing random comedian? I think fans of Dan and Jake will, but show me the Ben diagram between TDZ fans, TT/sports fans and people willing to pay for a podcast.
ReplyDeleteI’ve got other thoughts, but I’ll split these up so it doesn’t read like a James Joyce novel.
C
Plainsman said earlier that Catlin was his leader. Put yourself in Catlins shoes and tell us what you realistically would have done. And when I say realistically, assume Hansen, Doocy et al aren’t doing 3 hours of radio. Who would you have hired? What’s the P1 reaction if they hired anyone besides Mcclarin from out of town. How would they feel about some dude from Denver or OKC? Already seeing posts about how Monty, DJ, etc got screwed in this . I wonder what the reaction would be if, like the Freaks PD, they being in some outsider that doesn’t know the other station players, doesn’t know the history, etc. I think heritage stations, and clearly the ticket can be considered heritage, are the hardest to make changes in. I don’t know if these changes are good, but willing to give them a fair shake. And he’s a thought- if these changes font work out, in a year if Bass and Mino aren’t cutting it (I think Donnie is fine, he carried 10-12 for a while) then they can make changes, but Catlin et al can say they tried. And as we are finding out, a more sincere try than TDZ made in renegotiating their contract.
ReplyDeleteC
2 things-,rereading my Mcclarin comment above, at least mcclarin was somewhat of a known commodity. Known to other ticket hosts, etc. probably easier to get team buy in from DM, THL, etc if it’s a name they’ve heard of, as opposed to a guy sports starter kit from someplace like Little Rock.
ReplyDelete2- I’d love to know the ratings for WIP on Sunday mornings. Do they outdraw elf? Can they keep Elf’s audience around? What were there ratings like compared to that time slot pre WIP? All of those would be factors to me if I’m thinking of promoting that show.
As is I think the reason Monty is the producer, it’s got to be a hard sell to corporate to promote a talk show host who does one show a week for 2-3 hours, to full time host on a heritage, Marconi winning station. People think Monty’s funny, brings a lot to the table, etc. will now see if he can do that 5 days a week. See Julie Dobbs for the hard lesson of stepping from bit player to a starring role.
C
Sean and Mino have only been producers for one year. Barely any track record. They likely are paid dirt cheap, and would fall in line easily to mgmt.
ReplyDeleteThey promoted Davey who wasn't part of any show. I am team rant, so go Dave.
But Monty needed to be vetted, what kind of logic is that? lol
@ Mr. Giggles
ReplyDeleteI've seen the point you made, and others have said similar things re: the supposed offer and bad faith. I think its worth discussing, because it goes to Dan & Jake's character- the bad faith allegation is a serious thing. The claim is that, because Dan & Jake knew that Cumulus would say no to a component of their offer, that is was made in bad faith. How else are they supposed to learn whether the answer is no? In my mind, an actual act of bad faith would be Dan & Jake presenting an offer that they themselves wouldn't agree to- which appears to include some sort of digital income rights. If Cumulus answer is no (or Dan's answer is that its a non-starter) then there's just no deal. But that's different than bad faith. Who knows what really transpired, maybe (hopefully) we all will some day. I think we can all agree it would be compelling radio!
@See UNT
ReplyDeleteI would say that the bad faith thing will shake out in 6 months. If they end up on TF, I will take it as this whole thing was a ruse. They acted in bad faith to get new contracts to try to make themselves look good while the mean man (Cumulus) wouldn't let them do their own thing and podcast. If they were to leave and be quiet for 6 months and ended up at TF, most of the Ticket fanbase would be totally against them. So doing it this way allows them to try to make some money over the next 6 months until the NC is up. That is, if they can survive the Cumulus cease and desist. But as has been pointed out, there are a lot of things that appear to be done very specifically to prevent them getting in trouble over their podcast. Also, why announce the 1 year "discounted rate" if you can't provide that yet from what I have read. Time will tell, but it seems to me like this is a calculated plan to move to another station where they will be paid better and still smell like roses.
As for them paying Jake as a producer to do a hosting gig, I don't think I buy that. They may not have paid him true host money, but if he was helping pay Julie and others' salaries, he had to be making more than the ~$50k or whatever Sirios said he was making as midday producer.
I do wish them the best, but I don't have time in my life to pay for audio content. The couple podcasts I listen to are free (when I am mowing on the weekend) and during the week, it is always on the ticket. I feel pretty good about the 2 new shows and will definitely listen. As has been said, drive time is where the money is and I would think a lot of people leave it on during the day as filler.
One last thing, I spoke with 3 different people a couple weeks back who listen quite a lot to TT to ask them what they thought about this situation. Not a single one of them even knew they hadn't been on the air in a month. Of the 7 or 8 people I know who would call themselves P1's, not a single one is subscribed or has plans to and I am squarely in the middle of the men 25-54 demo.
I think DandJ were not happy with their contracts so they played out their contracts and asked for what they wanted, didn’t get it and will try it on their own which will be a legal fight for 6 months which if they can afford it may help with attracting attention to their platform and if that doesn’t work there are other teams out there who will pay for their services. They contributed to helping build the Ticket and don’t owe the other host anything beyond what they have already delivered. If George doesn’t agree then that’s on him.
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ReplyDelete@Something Clever
ReplyDeleteWho are you addressing? At least two people have commented on that. One, me, added in the Points For Sex Club aspect. It's not a question of creepiness, it's not a question of the morality of either JK's or MM's past actions, it's not a question of the actions per se, rather, it's a question of those who selectively direct outrage at one but not the other for actions contemporary society holds as egregious.
@See UNT
I appreciate your sentiment but disagree. Why would they or anyone for that matter put on offer something they themselves would not agree to? I don't follow you. If, and I do mean IF, they put forth stipulations that they knew no company would agree to, then such an act could be considered an act of bad faith. It could be seen as loading the dice for a desired outcome. Sure, if they were given those terms they'd take them. But, once more, no one in their situation in their right mind would think as such. By the way, if, and again IF, the terms they sought are true, they are terms that (as I said in my previous comment) no one has ever secured. No one. Please, if you are anyone else has an actual counterexample, do post it up for all to see. Understand what they asked for was tantamount to getting paid twice, from two different sources, for the same job.
I think most of the NBA would fit that mold.
DeleteIt was a response to C's comment. Specifically the last sentence. "I’ve seen Reddit today, peeing your pants is cool because it’s Jake and we like Jake, but Mcclarin is totally creepy?"
DeleteI guess we have different definitions of creepy because yes, I find one of those things creepy and one just dumb/silly, and it has nothing to do with whether or not I like the guy. Yes I do like Jake, but if next year he splits with his wife and starts dating a high-schooler, I'm probably going to have a hard time listening to him ever again.
Also, just went back and read your comment. Once again I'll defend Jake. No I don't believe the points for sex thing is even close to as bad as the MM situation. Mainly because one was a 16 year old being stupid with his friends, the other was and adult male flirting with an extended prison sentence.
I dont know if I think they acted in bad faith…BUT I think the sob story of the hangzone being “screwed” by cumulus is probably overblown.
ReplyDeleteRegarding Monty not becoming a host, these decisions aren't as simple as "Hey everyone online thinks he's great so we should promote him!" If it were up to what Reddit thinks, Corby would be gone and Sturm would be moved to 10-12 lol. When it comes to resume and experience, McClearin, Bass, and Mino all had the superior resume that you could sell management on to approve of these moves. McClearin has experience hosting M-F, not only in Birmingham but also in this market previously for ESPN. Bass and Mino have had lots of roles at the station but more recently, they can point to their respective shows' successful ratings this year as producers and also their work ethic/reliability in showing up every day as either a Ticker anchor or Board Op previously.
ReplyDeleteMonty finally has a chance to start building that resume so in the future, if their show succeeds then he'll be next in line for a host spot. I think even he realizes that's how it works considering he seems pretty happy right now. So there's no reason for anyone to feel like he got screwed.
Well said, Just A Spare. Anon 9:21pm, I guess you either forgot to include a name or didn't read Plainsman's new rules, which means you're comment will be deleted. Nevertheless I agree with you. It was exactly as I said earlier today: Sean would barely let another voice in edgewise. One show in the books, but this is just like Diamond Talk or any other show other than The Shake Joint (where he would defer to Jake) that Sean's been a part of. Always with the pre say that he seems like a good dude and has been a good soldier, of course. I'm hoping Mino begins to assert himself. Elsewise we're going to have something akin to the original M&M show on our hands. Machine and Monty. Remember that one? My word, Machine wouldn't stop talking. The few moments he let Monty say anything, Machine would immediately begin talking over him. Not to mention how he knew everything about everything. Didn't have to ask him, he let you know up front. It wasn't until Monty got from out under that crap and teamed with Mino that we discovered how great he is. Let's hope Mino takes the mic and if needs be forces his points across. And let's also hope that Sean becomes aware of his tendency to hog the mic and works on having a real dialogue. If they can do that, I think they have a real shot. My concern is that they won't and will be a middling affair that you can find on The FAN (B&S are well below middling in my estimate).
ReplyDeleteYeah that was me, keep forgetting to add a name. I had forgotten about how annoying machine was but yeah, Sean is at risk of ending up the same. Very arrogant and wordy, not an easy or enjoyable listen.
DeleteI think you can put Donnie in the “good dude, from what I know” category but I think he has a bag of not much to nothing. Maybe as the 3rd wheel but not as a host that I will listen to regularly. Norm had to go but Donnie offers the most generic opinions and no one calls him on being just like Bass or Ty.
ReplyDeleteI think Sean will end up being kinda like Bob in the dynamic. Monty and Mino will be fun and have good sports points, Sean will be the straight man. I think Monty will contribute a lot, maybe even more than Blake.
ReplyDeleteUntil something concrete emerges re: TDZ, its future/possible future home, and any legit pending court/legal issues, I'm done. We now know TT lineup. They are what they are and what they are are uninspiring but I get it. Safe stuff. I think as someone else said, this might be where TT regresses to the cume mean of its competitors. No longer will they have a 6am-7pm juggernaut. All things come to an end and I think we're witnessing one here. I mean, c'mon, you could hear it in the voices of The Musers and THL. They *know.* We all know. Happy for Sean and Mino. But yeah. The juice has run dry.
ReplyDeleteBeen a crazy month and change in Ticket world. I've never seen so much toxicity, immaturity, trolling, experts who aren't, and insiders who aren't in all my interwebs days. Greggo's axing and the breakup of the OG HL, Rhyner's faux retirement, Danny/Sirois/Julie leaving, and even the freakin' Freak's advent. . . . .none of it compares to the utter online and even on air chaos, insanity, a midday show that's been around 3 years leaving has caused. F'n nuts. I honestly don't get it. I'm a fan of THZ. I'm a fan of Jake's sports talk and Dan's willingness to say aloud what others think but aren't willing to say. All that, for sure. Sheez Louise man, it isn't Stern in his prime. It isn't OG HL in its prime. It isn't Bill Simmons. I can go on. Nuts.
Until something of note goes down. . . . . . .
@Something Clever
ReplyDeleteThat's fine that you think using another human in a purely instrumental fashion is OK because the user is young and dumb, and find a (and I agree) creepy but not illegal (it's not illegal to go to anyone's prom, regardless of age) action to be reprehensible. If you read my comment as you claim, then you'd have read that I said in now way should Jake be judged or punished retroactively by the public. That includes myself. I'm not going to go any further into this matter because to do so would be to engage in a subject that in my opinion is not for me to discuss. If there were any legal issues involved, they would have been made manifest by now. There hasn't been. My comment was not about whose actions are creepy or creepier. It pertained to the selective nature of who gets a pass, who doesn't, and why.
Thanks for the back and forth. Good stuff.
Some good thoughts on this thread. Thanks.
ReplyDeleteWill have some regrettably lengthy thoughts of an unavoidably legal nature up in a day or two.
Mike "The Machine" Marshall, sorry to say, may have been my least favorite on-air guy on The Ticket, ever. He thought it was his show; Justin Montemayor, a much more appealing on-air personality, just got shut down.
ReplyDeleteI wonder how long mino and bass have together before changes are made?? A Few rating books? I also wonder with Monty in a producer role now if he will get a host gig down the road..I hope so would hate to see him leave kinda like when Danny and Sirois
ReplyDeletebailed
Perhaps we should let Mino and Bass do some shows before we dismiss 1-3. It's not going to be nearly as bad as some are predicting, and I expect it to be pretty good. Mino's got Justin for backup.
ReplyDeleteCat will (1) hear the show and decide whether Sean is just not the right voice for the station as a full-time host, and (2) if it really does suck, which I doubt, he'll get an earful from the P1, and, (3) if it really, really, really sucks, the ratings will show it. But that would be a long, long way down the road.
Personally -- I think I'll be just fine with Sean/David with Justin producing.
TDZ now up to 254k USD/year of subscription and climbing steadily by the hour. It is certainly at a minimum some nice severance if their plan is to go to a competitor in 6 months. I still think they have been convinced by other online creators that their is a pile of gold for them venturing out on their own. We will see.
ReplyDeleteWhat is this number based on? Where are you getting it? How do you know their subs are climbing steadily by the hour? Their ratings numbers wouldn't support that and they have little to no presence outside of this market.
ReplyDeleteI take DnJ at their word that they're not going to go head to head against The Ticket working for a competitor. I do think they had no intention of signing a new contract with Cumulus and made a joke out of the process. All of it was just what Dan thinks Andy Kaufman or Norm MacDonald would've done. Too close to the story line for it not to be what happened. Dan can't help himself and Jake's right there with him. My guess is as soon as they're making enough money, you'll see Blake quit The Ticket and he and TC will be involved. I'll go one better. I think at least for the short to mid run this thing is going to work. Who knows they might actually earn close to if not more than they were with Cumulus and get to be their own boss while doing it. Their stuff isn't for me. At least not on the daily and having to pay for it. Don't get me wrong, I subscribe to a few pods. But they're topic specific. What DnJ have to offer is nothing I can't get free from other places, including The Ticket. To me they're no better or worse than anything else out there. If I'm gonna pay for content I want it to be something exclusive or at least the way it's gone about is unique. There's never been anything unique about their opinions or approach to anything. But that's me. Seems like there might be a lot of you out there that feel differently. Hope it works out for them. One of the pods I pay for is about ancient history. Funny how empires most always fall. 1000 little cuts that mostly go unnoticed or aren't taken too seriously, then suddenly out of nowhere an event happens that no one could foresee and that took place when everything seemed to be humming along or even kicking ass. Then all at once the whole thing collapses. Don't be shocked if The Ticket suddenly seems mortal. All shows. Not just the soft middle.
ReplyDelete@OU812 that doesn’t account for Patreon’s 8/12 percent. and I also think @Nandor raises a good point (at least on sentiment). Suspect a number of the new DumbZone P1s will check it out for a bit, realize they aren’t really using it, and drop off.
ReplyDeleteSubscriber numbers for TDZ Patreon today aren’t super instructive. If it finds a happy plateau and is growing reasonably at 6 months, then I think the concept will be pretty well proven.
Plainsman, did you see the Ticket team photo tweeted out from Oxnard? I couldn’t help but notice lots of white guys.
ReplyDeleteIt’s 2023, the Ticket had three openings, and couldn’t hire a minority or female?
Montemayor? The name alone sounds Hispanic. And unless we know who else applied I think it’s always problematic to throw up the diversity issue. I heard the show intro at 2, Bass has been there for almost 20 years, Mino more than a decade. If random dude with some on air experience in other market applies, what does it take to jump them ahead of known commoditys who you know their history, their work ethic, etc.
ReplyDeleteand if remember correctly the last woman that they hired for a full time gig, stepped back from that to go part time because she wanted to do spend more time with her family. This person gave up a full time gig where she basically worked while her kids were in school. And after less than a year, took a different full time job that involved not being with her family every morning, then took a different shift for that employer that involves not being home every day after school with her kids. So maybe a little gun shy about hiring a woman. Assuming any applied.
C
1. I’m referring to on-air hosting gigs. Three of those became available and Montemayor (possibly non-white according to you) didn’t get one.
Delete2. The Ticket is the number one sports station in a top 5 media market. Do you really think only white guys applied?
Yikes. Really putting the minus in C minus with that Julie take.
DeleteYou can see their subscriber numbers if you view their page and are not logged in to Patreon
ReplyDeleteThe Dumb Zone
3,081 members 5 posts
3081 x 6.9 x .9 x 12 / 2 = $114,798/yr each
@Its just me
ReplyDelete>One last thing, I spoke with 3 different people a couple weeks back who listen quite a lot to TT to ask them what they thought about this situation. Not a single one of them even knew they hadn't been on the air in a month.
you talked to 3 people who "listen a lot to the ticket" and not a single one of them noticed that 1 of the 4 shows on the ticket hadn't been on the air for a full month? and that a second one had a guy retire for 2 weeks of the month? and they didn't hear any of the shows talking about it? or the announcements for new shows? they didn't say "you mean norm?"
i'll take things that never happened for $500, Alex.
no need to blatantly not tell the truth to get your point of "no one will miss them and the replacements will be fine" across.
>Of the 7 or 8 people I know who would call themselves P1's, not a single one is subscribed or has plans to and I am squarely in the middle of the men 25-54 demo.
holy small sample size batman!
I think one of the worst parts about the Hang Zone leaving is that they were the keepers of Ticket historical audio with the daily open, the 2:15 look back segment, playing drops throughout the show, etc. I’m afraid the legacy of old bits is going to suffer without them.
ReplyDeleteBaron, do you get all of your crutch phrases from Reddit or is this just another small sample size?
ReplyDelete@ABaron Sportslandscape
ReplyDeleteYou certainly read a lot into that. I never said these people didn't know about Norm, not sure where you got that. They all knew about him retiring. Again, this was a couple weeks back when no show was talking about D&J at all. What they didn't realize at the time was that the HZ had been off more than normal dry dock before the news stories started coming out. Nothing more, nothing less. I thought it seemed like had been gone longer than normal and searched out sources to see what was going on. At that point, it had been 3 out of 4 weeks they had been out. Heck, at that point, many folks on TT reddit were still saying just normal dry dock, don't worry.
Never said or intended to say no one will miss them. I certainly will as I liked the HZ a lot and I listened to them everyday. I e-mailed them regularly. But, when faced with leaving the app running all day vs switching to a (paid for) podcast and back, I will leave it on the app. I hope the new hosts do great as I think most folks on here agree with wanting to see TT keep providing compelling radio. I also hope D&J do great. They are doing well so far with their subscribers but it is far too early to know how they will be long term.
As for the 7-8, I fully understand that is not a huge sample size, but that is the circle I am in. Take it with a grain of salt, just threw it out there as I don't know anyone subscribing to it. I think it will be tough to make it that way, but they may very well be able to.
@ABaron Sportslandscape & @It's Just Me said...
ReplyDeleteI don’t think the point was that a survey of eight friends was somehow a reliable sample size. Just an anecdotal illustration that most people-most TT listeners- don’t care nearly as much as those of us who care to read and/or post about the radio business here and on Reddit. TT does have a rabid and loyal following. And I’d bet that it inspires more this sort of thing than most or any other local station in the country. But still comparatively small.
However, there has obviously been a great deal of interest in TDZ. A few thousand subscribers is not much compared to the total number of listeners to TT. But it is significant to the bottom line of a podcast. But as others have pointed out, I believe that TDZ numbers will fall once all the behind-the-scenes TT gossip has been aired. I will be interested to see what the numbers are in a few months.
@its just me obviously a small sample size but I know what you mean. Most people I know that listen to the ticket it’s only musers or hardline. The hardcore fans, the ones that show up on Reddit or this blog, are more likely to listen all day. But that percent is probably smaller than the casual commute listener.
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ReplyDeleteI think the people predicting some precipitous drop in subscribers are the same people who thought THZ missing for 3 weeks was just standard dry dock behavior
ReplyDelete@TheDunhamZone
DeleteI think the people who won't be surprised and even expect there to be a drop off of subs-even a precipitous one-are being pragmatic and are basing their view off probability. Probability grounded in historical data. Correlation does not entail causation. Plus, it's poor form to impute your own biases onto another.
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ReplyDeleteWhat’s the crossover between dumb zone fans and Monty/Mino fans? I feel like it’s very large.
ReplyDeleteCongrats to the Musers on their TRHOF induction!! Well deserved.
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DeleteOver on twitter Jake has the following:
ReplyDeletewhen matt mcclearin was on the ticket, i used to think it was really weird that he was allowed to do local brewery reviews. i was told many times to not speak about local breweries. didn’t give too much of a care so kinda shrugged and moved on.
but it is strange. and this is in no way an indictment of matt, who i have always found to be a very friendly and talented person. why they wanted to jam us so bad, as opposed to other people.
the reality is: a bunch of people who deserved better opportunities are doing better now. the rules of what you are and aren’t allowed to say over there are, and have always been, nonsense. i just want people to feel good and do well.
Interesting tidbit from the dumbzone today. Dan says he still prepares WTDS every day for the guys at the station.
ReplyDeleteSorry I think my consecutive comments caused some confusion. The mcclearin stuff is from twitter and still up. The Dan still doing WTDS is from the latest DZ episode that was just posted on Patreon.
DeleteIs his Twitter deleted or something now?
ReplyDeleteNo it’s still there. Just figured some people would find it more convenient if I posted the text here
DeleteDid that second Jake tweet get deleted?
ReplyDeleteI found out now. He’s catching some ridicule in the comments and I somewhat agree. Move on and get over it. The guy that moved to Alabama and got to host a show after Jake did was given special treatment? Ok.
ReplyDeleteVery interesting opening comment from Jake on the Patreon today. He said isn't it something that some at the ticket get to make money off of various outside endeavors like Substack or Twitch but implied that he and Dan were blocked from similar outside endeavors.
ReplyDeleteIt’s probably explainable honestly. Bob writes, gordo donates his $ from twitch. Jake had IJB. They probably wanted something that e wasn’t exactly allowed by others at the ticket either but he was ambiguous to spark curiosity.
ReplyDeleteJake wrote for The Athletic and then D Magazine.
ReplyDeleteBut what endeavors? Cumulus pitches themselves as an audio company, not a radio company. If someone wants to do a substack, probably not an issue, a twitch stream that’s not sports content, probably not a red flag. You want to do a podcast that’s probably more of an issue.
ReplyDeleteAnd isn’t Jake “I’m not allowed to make money off outside endeavors” Kemp writing for D magazine? So he’s not allowed to except when he is allowed to?
The more I hear from Dan and Jake the less I believe them. They’re making generalized claims that are easily disproven. Have some balls and produce some proof.
C
Reddit is falling over every word too
DeleteAnd as a sales guy I can think of good reason they don’t want prime time talent doing brewery reviews. Any idea what live spots go for? It’s a premium, I’ll tell you that. Why would a GM or PD want a host doing an extended live spot for a business for no financial gain? And Corby endorses Woodfird reserve, Jake did some Rum company. Maybe the bosses didn’t want talent yo be seen indirectly endorsing an alcohol competitor. But they don’t care if spare weekend talent does it, they’re not selling some weekender in an endorsement deal. Like I said the more Jake talks the more it sounds like sour grapes. He’s coming across as a whiny petulant child.
ReplyDeleteC
Dumb Zone spent 30 minutes in their last free post talking about their departure. Forty eight preceeding minutes meandering through Baker Mayfield and foot fetish talk. Final section with their guest’s background. Doesn’t anybody have friends anymore? Is the popularity of DZ simply guys talking bc people are too (fill in problem) to sit down and listen and talk to someone else? Still not personally finding their subjects compelling, but that is personal interest. They used a clip from Jon Stewart. Stewart is neither completely right or wrong in the way he portrays corporations. If a corporation fails and thousands are left without jobs…huge numbers of people flip out. If a corporation is propped up…people flip out. I don’t know what is “enough” profit for a corporation in order for its radio hosts to be compensated appropriately. EVERYONE is greedy. Some more so than others. The more I hear from these two…they are no different from anybody else. Not Cumulus overlords. Not Akeesh. Not me.
ReplyDeleteIn the interest of transparency, I am hardly ever going to side with a corporation over a person. That said, if it's true that Jake didn't get any increase in pay after becoming a host he might be justified in having some sour grapes. It would seem the Ticket isn't the dream job for them that many of us think it would be for us.
ReplyDeleteAll things being equal, Cumulus and iHeart being the same soulless entity in different clothes, I'd probably work for the one that put the most money in my pocket. If I could make the choice to not work for either soulless entity and make it on my own that would be the ideal choice. I hope they succeed at it, I think that would be a lot better for their overall happiness and quality of life.
I believe Jake didn’t get an increase initially, and last year during his hold out, gave them a number and eventually got it. All for them to do it again a year later lol.
ReplyDeleteif anyone believes that Jake didn't get a pay raise when promoted from producer to tier one host - you'll believe anything.
ReplyDeletethere is this weird assumption that moving to a hosting position suddenly awards you the same, or in the same range, as the person you're replacing - even if you personally have zero previous experience in that role (FT, major market host). It's a weird and entitled POV that those of us who have been doing this a very long time, find hilariously deluded.
(sorry, forgot name) if anyone believes that Jake didn't get a pay raise when promoted from producer to tier one host - you'll believe anything.
ReplyDeletethere is this weird assumption that moving to a hosting position suddenly awards you the same, or in the same range, as the person you're replacing - even if you personally have zero previous experience in that role (FT, major market host). It's a weird and entitled POV that those of us who have been doing this a very long time, find hilariously deluded.
I haven’t read every single comment on this thread or knew in the past but I don’t remember anyone saying that they expected Jake to get paid exactly the same as the person he was replacing.
DeleteI myself have seen at every job I’ve had, someone be given new duties/promoted without a pay raise. It’s pretty common in multiple industries. Not sure why you think anyone who believes that happened is gullible and would believe anything.
because in this industry, at that station's level, it does not happen. You go from producer to host, you get a pay raise. When I hear Jake claim (or his guest retell the story of Jake informing him) he didn't get a raise - I think that is a lie.
DeleteAnd, just for the sake of argument, if someone was offered that opportunity with out a pay raise - they were a dipshit to accept it in the first place. (and please note, my comment included "same or in the same range").
Let's try this: If Norm was banking $300K, Matt should now expect what? (and he's got an actual hosting resumé). If Dan or Jake were getting $250K - Mino should expect what?
Knob, I'm no Jake fanboy by any stretch, but you do not seem to be acknowledging that Jake was promoted almost simultaneously with the initial Covid shutdown. It was not a normal time, and so I would find it very believable that they would say "let's talk raise once things return to normal" and Jake would accept that since he's now an official host.
ReplyDeletewell, good thing all of that is provable with pay stubs. but I also don't believe that is the limitation of his claim. maybe I have a misunderstanding of what lack of pay raise was communicated in that episode.
DeleteAgreed.
DeleteI don’t have a response to the “norm got paid this, what should mino make.” I’m not arguing that Jake should have been paid the same as Bob or that Mino should make what Norm was making. No one is arguing that.
As for the dipshits that new duties/promotions/titles without a raise. We can always go back and forth over how people should be more financially stable, etc. But in reality a lot of people don’t have jobs lined up or a ton in savings to be able to say no to their employer and risk being let go or having to make the choice to walk away. They might be dipshits to some but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen.
Back to the “in this industry” it doesn’t happen. Ok I’ll take your word for it. I don’t know the industry. But I do know mine and in mine it does happen. I’m sure that in the industry of other people here it happens. Because of our experience and what we’ve seen it makes total sense that we would assume it happens in other industries. Believing someone because we’ve seen it happen doesn’t mean we’d “believe anything.”
and, furthermore - let's play out this even further. Assuming Jake's claim of COVID caused him not to get a pay raise is 100% true - and later, as promised, given a raise - what's the beef? That it wasn't the amount he expected? He accepted that deal. Go back to my earlier question about expectation setting based on experience and reality.
DeleteTo reiterate, I simply do not believe, as I heard in the episode as told by the guest, never got a pay raise from producer to host from the jump and what really happened is he'd set an expectation of "Bob money range" and got something way less. This is similar to the Sirios telling of his complaint that he's told publicly and his expectations to get Norm's role and make "something close to Norm money".
Yeah my issue isn’t with what you believe. I get it’s what you believe, I understand the position, I agree with some parts of it. No issue there.
DeleteMy issue was with you thinking anyone else who doesn’t see things your way would just believe anything. I’m pretty sure a lot of us here are professionals with established careers that have experiences that have formed our views. We don’t just believe anything anyone says because we’re dumb.
Fair! maybe I should have said, "if you believe that, I have a bridge to sell you"
DeleteAnd last year he did get the raise
ReplyDeleteSo you're also then saying that Bob is lying by saying he got no pay raise when he got moved to drive time with the Hardline and no raise for the next 3 years after that
ReplyDeleteNope - you made that connection up out of whole cloth.
DeleteNew post up + red.
ReplyDeleteIt is very, very long. Some of you may cancel your subscriptions.
But of potential interest.
In my industry, I have seen many people given more responsibility without an increase in pay. I have been one of those people. As someone who works in an industry that was heavily affected by Covid, we still haven't seen the money back from the pay cuts we took. One might be considered lucky if they work in an industry where this hasn't happened.
ReplyDeleteJake might be lying I agree. In the words of the great Gregory House "Everybody lies." I don't have any information to dispute him though so I have to accept him at his word and temper that with a healthy dose of skepticism.
TOTC here...
ReplyDelete