A home for those who love almost everything about The Ticket (1310 AM, 96.7 FM, Dallas-Fort Worth), and who would like to discuss -- respectfully and fondly -- their thoughts on how (and whether) to eliminate the "almost."
Monday, July 17, 2023
BREAKING: Dan + Jake (and/or Dan or Jake) Are Not Going to The Freak
NEWSDan McDowell and Jake Kemp Exit The Ticket in Dallas “Talks broke down over competing digital media interests Dan and Jake wished to pursue outside of a Cumulus Media partnership.”
It's 1030, of course they are not on right now. Plus even if t aren't on today, it's not unusual for hosts to take the Monday post vacation off. But you know all this. Congratulations on a masterful troll, Surly. Not exactly sure what you got out of it, but well executed nonetheless.
So they're not going to TF. Yet Pman didn't say they aren't going anywhere. And it's not like Pman to be cryptic. So either something is up with THZ and he knows but for some reason is not disclosing it, or he's turn OK by the troll back onto the troll(ers).
I know Donnie said they were doing 10-3 today but I still wouldn't be surprised if Dan and Jake don't show up at noon. It would not be beyond them to maximize the bit. Heck it wouldn't be beyond Dan to drive the bit into the ground. Still, this has all been a very strange incident at the little Ticket.
If they were gone, they would not be playing the Hang Zone open. They are just using a lot of vacation time right now before Cowboys camp starts. Nothing to see here.
Also notice he said Dan and/or Jake and not The Hang Zone. The Hardline has zero original members but the namesake and theme are still kicking. Nota bene.
I think you are onto something. There is a definitive nature to the statement from Plainsman "not going to the Freak" yet total ambiguity on any other detail such as not indicating they are going to stay at the ticket. I am going to offer the conjecture that they are going directly to syndicated nationwide talk perhaps airing on The ticket late at night.
I trust Pman's sources. I don't remember a time when he made a statement here and it wasn't true. He is a writer (still not sure who), and is not prone to the bogus drop of info like others are.
I have never understood why they would leave, still don't think so. BUT, I did have a thought this morning.... Don't want to get dark, but could there be some other issue going on. I hate to speculate, but I will. Are direct and extended families OK.
If all are healthy, and THZ shows up, I personally think it is Dan trolling the entire P1 nation. I would expect nothing less.
I love how we’re all dissecting statements like Q-Anons. No judgement. I’m right there with everyone else. Someone posited that the ticket is looking to create a 10-3 show, but with a larger cast. Dan and jake, only being under contract for a three hour show, are trying to come to terms for the additional two hours.
This would make the most sense. Or maybe I’m trying my feel better.
So I decipher from Plainsman's carefully handcrafted statement at 1:45 that Dan would not take all this vacay just to troll the P1 thus there is a contract issue in play where there is basically a standoff about the length of the show, whether the Hang zone will stay together or just how Cumulus will deploy their talents. Jake is more likely than Dan to jump at this stage of his life thereby leaving Dan, Donnie and Mino to be a likely trio with Mino jumping to the producer role for the Hardline. Am I warm Plainsman?
Granted, I don't think Dan would troll and give up all his vacay. I absolutely think this is contract related, if so, they are paying them to shut up and stay low. It isn't burning vacay.
We all know there had to be some sort of lineup change. In the last post, or somewhere, someone mentioned that Norm going was a total surprise to Cat. If so, as a manager, you have to process the immediate change, then work to lay out a new plan.
Now, as a manager, their should have been some idea in place. If you are running an operation, and you are the guy, you have a back-up plan in place for everyone. I always know what I will do if someone walks out the door and gets hit by a DART bus. It is dark, but you have to plan.
That said, as the number 1 in market of the last several months, granted it dropped slightly, Cat HAS to be right. So, yeah, maybe take some time. Get it right. Move on.
At the same time, your #1 show has been out on vacay, and for Gordo, out of country. Given the Musers place in the world, I don't think Cat makes big moves without at least talking it through with them. If nothing else, asking the question, "How long are you guys gonna keep going?" The worst thing that could happen, a big shuffle, then another after Cowboys season.
That said, training camp is coming up. We will know very soon, based on camp attendance. I doubt there is anyway, short of something life changing, you make a big lineup change in the middle of that season.
@Plainsman Just what idea(s) do you have? I think 119/122 could be on to something. Are they, Plainsman?
See, I'm a D1P1 Confessor. I recall Grubes's maiden comment. I think I made mine maybe 2-3 after his. This means that I am well acquainted with Plainsman's modus loquendi. From the heading of this post to his comments, none of it resembles (what, how long has it been now, 15-16 years? Damn!), in even the slightest way, either his style or form. He has never been cryptic, never been terse (quite the opposite, in fact), and has never used spacing like he has here. I could go on a bit more but you get the point. So, either it's either as 126 claims, merely Plainsman giving what has been gotten, or, he knows the deal but is unwilling to say due to his source (Cat?) requesting him not to give specifics just yet.
For all who don't know it, GN = Gypo Nolan. Gypo was a long ago inside informant if you will. More often than not, when GN would leave a comment, the content of said commment would occur. Now is this the actual GN? Who knows.
I do think it's a bit eyebrow raising that Surly wondered aloud where Gypo Nolan was for all this and bang, a bit later a GN began leaving comments. Surly, is GN to you what So Anonymous is to Sirois??????
Downbeat teasing a "big announcement" at 5:10 today. I wonder what actually rates as a "big announcement" over there. If it's as "big" as the morning show announcement it's going to be unsurprisingly small.
FWIW, Jake has been on IJB and Dan was on their Patreon episode that was published 6/23. No mention of being off TT airwaves on any of the episodes. I remember the old MTC days of GN chiming in and trying to track down the source. If this version is the same from back in the day, I would take notice of their input.
I am convinced something is happening but worry we may not ever get all the details. My hope is it all gets worked out and D&J are back on the air soon. I think the shift to a 10-3 show causing a contract renegotiation would be the most plausible explanation. Also, for those saying this is all just a bit and they are on vacation, the jokes from fill ins about being out for suspension or a peen implant have been noticeably absent for HZ this time around.
Wouldn't be something if THZ is back tomorrow and the trolls fomenting all this are Freak employees, ie., KT, Sirois, and Cavanaugh, and some Glens (gawd, and I thought TOLOs was awful).
During WTDS today, P1 emails were addressed to Dan. This suggests that Dan is still prepping the content for that segment and sending it to Corby. To me, this gives some hope that they will be back at some point.
Careful with your assumption DP. If Dan's email is a cumulus address then Cumulus owns the rights to that email and can redirect to Corby or whomever to read even if addressed Dan. The individual does not own their company email.
2. My brother in law's youngest brother is in the same business as C. He's heard nothing about Dan and/or Jake and contracts or any sort of move.
3. What he did say was that it's his understanding that iHeart is fully committed to The Freak format and that from what he's heard they have a very long leash. As in at least 3 years.
4. The long leash pertains to the format, not the talent. Keep an eye out on that front.
I'm beginning to wonder if (i) they are in fact gone from The Ticket and (ii) that they are not going to a local competitor but rather or going to genuinely bet on themselves and go the BarStool route or something like it.
Something sure seems to be up. I'm with the commmenter above who said Pman's wording and style in this post don't jibe with the rest of his output. Makes me think he's saying things rather carefully, which in turn makes me think while Dan and Jake are gone from The Ticket, their destination is not The Freak. I don't believe he would've been so explicit about the latter and not say something to the effect of them staying put unless he's got information saying otherwise.
WTF is going on with all this? It didn't get this crazy even during the Greggo days. I hope THZ isn't gone, but if they are we'll all make it through the other side, I promise. Sheesh.
I’m really tired of all the back and forth and hysteria of everything around Dan and Jake. I’m going to log off for awhile and take a break. If they don’t show up to Cowboy’s Training Camp next week, then we will know they are gone. Until then, I’m going to be optimistic that everything is ok at the mothership.
Well if they are gone look on the bright side: We never have to hear Jake's fake (and terribly executed) East Coast accent (e.g., bawl for ball, et al) again and nor do we have to hear Dan bog and whine and (terribly execute) the gotcha game again. Win-win.
I certainly initially thought the posted email wasn’t legit, but now I think it was. Corby made a really quick under his breath comment during e-news that was very telling. He was talking about Christopher Nolan being paranoid about using email or even snail mail when sending script info out, so he flew to hand deliver a script to Cillian Murphy.
Corby: “because he didn’t trust email, he didn’t trust mail…he wants NOTHING...”
Ty: “No middle men”
Mino “Smart”
Corby: “he wants nothing getting out (aswe’refindingout) he wants NOTHING getting out!”
I think I have figured it out! Jake and Dan are good friends with Bryan Curtis the Editor at Large with The Ringer who runs one of the most successful and prolific podcast networks in the world. Methinks the betting on themselves thing sees them ending up as an edgy sports talk show on the Ringer where they also mingle with guys talk. Jake can also fulfill his obligations as a writer on Theringer.com
No inside info but this makes too much sense. Think big and outside the box.
there's no way they're not gone. no way. i bet they sit out the n.c. be it jake's, dan's or both of them. if dan's contract was up wouldn't that void his n.c.? and didn't jake reup last year, which you'd think he'd still have a n.c. in place? dunno. maybe someone out there has that info. my guess is despite plainsman's claim, their next home will be at tf. perhaps plainsman's source only knew they weren't immediately bolting for tf or didn't say they were, hence him saying they weren't going to tf. i'm with all the others who think plainsman not saying they're still at tt bears weight and tells the story. i think their departure is going to affect ratings and the entire vibe of the station for both the varsity and jv and the listener alike in a profound way. as in it'll be the real beginning of the end of tt as we've known it. i believe the dominos will soon begin to fall. take that how you may.
Like your thinking there, 6:23. Such a move has THZ written all over it. As you say, it makes too much sense. And they get to work from home, or at least at Dan's home studio which is down the road from Jake. Makes too much damn sense.
I KNEW there was something off about this post and the manner in which Pman presented it. He told the truth, but not the whole truth. Come on now, Pman, let the rest of the Cat out of the bag.
honestly at this point, if they are going to another local station, the Fan has shown more longevity than the Freak. Fan will be around tomorrow. The Freak may not be on the air by the time Rhyner's squid's squid is born.
TF isn't going anywhere. TSE and even B&S might. Even TDB might be retooled at some point in the nearish to mid future. But rest assured, iHeart is running with TF. iHeart envisions the future of terrestrial radio as hybrid of traditional over the airwaves broadcasting with the latest in technology that leans heavily on real time interfacings between talent and listener. They're viewing TF as a prototype. So despite the prognostications, TF isn't going anywhere anytime soon.
Hate to pull a Karle Rove, but you may wanna hold on. My source, which is inner circle, responded very peculiarly. As if rote. As if scripted toward ignorance. Something is still going on.
I think 634 is 630. I also think there's a lot of "Glen"/Sirois directed shennanigans going on and have been for days now. If you listened to TDB's announcment, you would've hear Sirois welcome all the new listeners. I guess this is funny?
Sucks that someone would imitate you, C. Surprised that now you have said as much, Plainsman hasn't deleted the imposter comment.
Not surprising, Gopher. I know you're a radio board guy, as am I (seen your handle on the DFW board). I haven't caught one whiff of anything on this front. If something was cooking in the oven, don't you think Richie Whitt would know about it and shout to the heavens, "I told you all this last August!!!!"? Of course he would. So I don't think THZ is going to TF. I'm still not convinced they've left TT. I think tomorrow will be telling. Did anyone hear Donnie say he or someone else would be back in that slot tomorrow?
I listened to the teases out of the last segment before WTDS and the overtalking during the ender of WTDS and heard nothing. Seems like it's day to day...? Which would support a "this is a contract negotiation" argument.
That's what has been so odd about this whole thing. They have been on radio silence about all of this. If there was "something in the air" it would be mentioned there.
Corby's 'as we're finding out' comment has me pretty convinced the Dan Bennett email is real. Guess now we just have to wait to see how they're going to handle it all.
Let's grant that THZ quit TT. At least in the short to mid term it won't really affect ratings. Why? Look at what TT is up against: B&S and a K&C Masterpiece/GBaG combo platter. You could run out Rotten Radio from here to eternity and still get beat them all. So in one way, this is a helluva opportunity for in-house talent to show the market what they really have. Hello Monty, Mino, DJ, whomever along with Donnie. Or even Donnie + an established talent + an up and comer.
Now let's say THZ does have to sit out a, say, 6 mo NC and at that point either becomes TF AM Drive or iHeart 86s B&S and THZ gets its timeslot back. To the former, while they would most likely provide DnM with their first taste of actual competition in over 20 years, I don't think they'll come close enough to scare them. They might put some old juice back into DnM's veins and make them even better. Of course, if DnM retire in a couple-few years, then there's a good chance THZ would best whatever TT puts up vs them. To the latter, I'd say that barring a "Romo mirrrrrracccccllllle" yes, THZ would best TT during those hours.
But here's the rub. If they do sit out a NC for, again, say 6 mos, don't be shocked if their numbers aren't so great. Even if the latter scenario plays out. We tend to be out of sight out of mind creatures. We move on, pretty quickly, and we find new favorites. There's also this, and I know it's not going to be a popular opinion: I'm not so sure THZ is actually that good. I'm not so sure Dan and Jake are a good pairing. And if they have TC involved, which I can't imagine they won't, that dynamic most likely won't help things. I don't say that to bash TC. I intend it as the mixture of the three on a daily, weekly, monthly, yearly basis. It will quickly become an echo chamber, on every level. But, if there is no NC to sit out and THZ immediately becomes a competitor in either the AM Drive or afternoon slot, I believe in the case of the former they will find out in fairly quick order that they are going to have to wait for their turn at bat; in the case of the latter, well, they'll immediately become the flagship show of TF. But when your flagship show is middays, another can of worms will open up.
Aside: It's my assertion that Dan has never nor will ever get over that he wasn't asked to join THL and/or BaD wasn't moved there once the reshuffling of the lineup was finalized after Rhyner's "retirement."
Oof... kind of sad to realize we'll never hear them on The Ticket again. In a lot of ways the relationships between all the hosts and board ops are what makes the station and their show, and this is a big blow to both.
Ok my phone is blowing up so let me fill in what I know. I’m friends with a couple of the ticket sales reps, so here’s what I’m told: As the Bennett email said, it’s been in negotiations which is why this has been so flying by the seat of the pants. I’m told THZ was expected back after their vacation and decided to hold out while negotiations continued. That’s when we started getting rotten radio, replays, etc as they scrambled to fill what they didn’t know they needed to fill. I’m told there’s verbiage about it broke down over competing interests. I believe Dan and Jake wanted to do whole show podcasts a la the Freak and monetize them for themselves. Cumulus didn’t want full show podcasts ( arguably understandable, those don’t register in the ratings like signal or stream, so cannabilizes your own audience). Cumulus also wouldn’t go for letting them monetize it themselves as THZ could sell a sponsorship to the podcast undercutting their sales to a client. Why pay market rate to Cumulus when you could sell a cheaper side deal with THZ? If those stories are correct (and again, this is what I’m told, not first hand knowledge) I understand Cumulus not wanting to set a precedent. More on the fallout after this break… C
They are vastly overestimating the Econs of a podcast if that’s true. Nice alongside their regular gig but standalone, a podcast is a great way to work more and make less
I think I agree with anon at 8:08pm. A lot of people said losing Sirois, Danny, Julie and Rhyner would be the death of the ticket. And yet, the ticket not only survived but thrived. I think the Rhyner departure/reappearance at the Freak shows that inertia is a hell of a thing. For all the people that proclaimed the Wolf as their leader, all those people are good for an average listenership around 20th in the ratings m25-54. I’m told there’s definitely a non compete in play. So if they do show up in 6 months on Fitzhugh or the Dallas Parkway, how much of a dent will they make. As people have said, Dan is an acquired taste. But TT listeners are about to have 5-6 months to get their tastebuds used to Donnie and friends 10-3. Or Donnie and Trahan 10-12 and Mino and Monty 12-3. Or whatever they roll out. Iheart rolled out a ton of billboards for TF launch. And it got them nothing. How much will Audacy or Iheart pay to promote THZ, and what is the ROI on that? And THZ is to me a very undisciplined show. Too rambly, too long to get to a point. Not as worrisome when you’re a midday show with a loyal audience. Much more problematic if you’re going up against the ratings juggernaut of the Musers. Inertia is a hell of a thing. How many people post here, Reddit, etc? Compare your estimate to the Tickets cume. There’s a heck of a lot more people listening that posting here. And the average listener won’t know where they pop up they will just know oh there’s a new show that replaced THZ. They make make inroads. But those inroads lead straight up hill. C
So plainsman thought not going to TF, C thinks it’s possible. If hangzone is trying to do some podcast network or something, it may be be an ok idea. If they end up in AM or PM drive? Idk. Dan getting caught up in what’s Moab, mayo has eggs, where’s the panhandle, etc, is ok when you got 20 min of downtime at work to tune and don’t really care. But idk if I want that for my morning commute. And idk how bad the casual p1/radio listener does either.
Check out Plainsman thread from 10/2. Comment made at 19/3, 313pm- “THL RIP, the downbeat is going to crush”. 459p- quoted from the DMN article” to hell with the Ticket, I hope the freak takes them down.” 10/4 542p- “TF will go down as a game changing force”. Skip to the 10/6 thread, and on 10/8 at 654p we have “the ticket is in its last days metaphorically speaking” So while I don’t have a direct quote, I think it’s fair to interpret that 654p comment as predicting the death of the ticket. Or does “in its last days” not mean approaching death to you? C PS plainsman give yourself credit, check out your comment on 10/7 at 1040a, where you talk about mid 2023 we’d be discussing Whitts prediction of THZ jump to TF. He hit the timing right, if not the exact jump.
Are you also catching wind that they will indeed end up at TF after the NC is up? I'm with you and 808, Dan and Jake might be about to learn the rough and ego bruising lesson Rhyner and to a lesser extent Sirois have learned: Parts are rarely if ever bigger than the whole. We're loyal to the laundry, not the players. People actually booed Emmitt as a Cardinal. They booed Carlisle as coach of the Pacers. That is the reality of the real world. If you think, well they'll just do a podcast and call it something else while they sit out the NC and keep generating interest and all will be well.... think again. Doing a daily or most days podcast is a lot of work. A lot of work that you will make dick off of. Yes, there are situations where the new place of employment will pay you as you sit out a NC. iHeart is not one of them. Take that to the bank. This is why I ask C if he's heard anything on iHeart's involvement. There's also all THZ segments and songs and all the rest (oh yes, perhaps even the name) that are most likely Cumulus's intellectual property.
Dan and Jake may soon come to regret this. Especially if what's being reported (why everything broke down and in the manner it did) is true. Having said this, 922 might every well be onto something.
Surly, you are a regular reddit contributor. You know damn well that's pretty much ALL that was bandied about. I read those comments here too, though they weren't as ubiquitous as they were on reddit. So come off it, man.
Hopefully 922 will be right. For Jake to stick around at the ticket for so long, get a hosting gig, keep IJB going, write for D mag, and then bail on ticket because they can’t do another podcast? He should be paid fairly but I mean..
Exactly, 944. All the living wage stuff, the Norm and Cat are the greediest, most evil humans in the history of the world, Sirois was the only thing worth a shit at and was the future of TT, Julie was the freshest of fresh air who did no wrong and was being maltreated, I mean..... it went on and on for months. That and OGW is my leader and I ride or die with him. TT is dying, it FORCED the only true talents that would save it to seek employment elsewhere. Yada da yada da yada. Lather, rinse, repeat. So yeah, those things were absolutely said.
They’re getting paid. Simple as that. It’s not podcasts or other flotsam. Either the Fan or the Freak are putting them in AM/PM drive. Dan has been in a underpaying daypart for almost 25 years. Jake has been hanging on loyally for years in underpaid roles and probably didn’t get lifted up in 2020 when he finally did get an on air role for obvious reasons. They got an offer they couldn’t refuse and Atlanta didn’t want to match. I don’t blame them at all. And I’ll tune in
I love the dichotomy. We have both Cathers salary is a rounding error in THZ’s salary AND dans in an underpaying daypart for 25 years. Which is it? Do they make a lot or are they underpaid?
Ya the subreddit went from promoting the freak as the de jure new ticket for true p1s from 3-7, to being a joke and punching bag on the subreddit real quick.
Also to 949, Jake getting bad advice from Dan. I’m not gonna accuse Dan of anything but Dan is obsessed with the nba player movement style, as well as the “everything new is better” mindset. So who knows.
How has Dan been underpaid? He wasn't in drive time. The station he is/was at have AM/PM drive time juggernauts. Why would they jettison either of those shows? Jake chose to "hang on loyally" for years in "underpaid" roles. He was able to so, like most all of these guys are, because he had other means (e.g., parents, other sources of income) that allowed for him to do as such. How some of you know what others are paid, their loyalties (whatever the f that means), and all the rest beggars belief. See, Surly, these are the people who said exactly what you claim they didn't (death of TT, etc.).
You might be correct in that they're getting paid elsewhere and it's a simple as that. But there are a few out there with real connections/are actually in the business themselves that are saying otherwise. I'll buy their version over yours until it's shown otherwise, thank you. But if you're correct, I'll be the first to come on here and eat crow. You have my word.
When one thinks that they might need to give credit to RW, just remember he chose to the be mouthpiece to the doomsday prepping scam of Trident Lakes and shouldn’t get the benefit of any doubt
All of this makes Norm's retirement interesting. Was it just a coincidence? Seems like unfortunate timing now - even if you weren't a fan of his show, I would think it would be good to have him around for stability from 10-12 for a little longer while they figure out how to replace THZ
Dan has sent daughters to out of state schools, eats salmon every day, doesn’t cook any meal, Uber eats everything, lives in south lake. Whatever he’s being paid, it’s not bad.
And being paid the kinda salary (and benefits) that affords such a lifestyle must be kept up, at all times, else that lifestyle will go bye bye in no time flat. Out of state tuition is a bitch, yo.
I This isn't truly over and they'll come back to the table and hammer out a deal, back on air next Monday.
II This is over and they have a deal in place with either iHeart, CBS, or something else for hella money and will be paid to sit out any NC.
III This is over and they are really fucking dumb.
Yeah, but when someone's right, they're right. Regardless of what a TWHITT, rock me, they are. He was dead on about TF, including Danny. And as of now his tidbit about THZ is looking to be dead on too. Timing and all. So give the fucko his due.
I respectfully but completely disagree with C at 9:23 when he calls THZ an undisciplined show. They have hands down the best and most entertaining open (The Kid production), all the benchmarks including business Tuesday, News news news at 1:30, picks with friends during football season, ad hoc Kemp spins, to the great WTDS and the great contributions from Blake and also meticulous producing from Blake where he keeps incredible notes on everything ever said and can call back up as a humorous bit. THZ had hit its stride this year and was humming on all cylinders. This will be a loss for The Ticket no matter how much we think things will stay the same in perpetuity. All things come to an end and losing Dan who for 95% of the Ticket audience is in essence an original Tier 1 day 1 even though he came a few years after the start, is a huge deal. Let's not kid ourselves - Dan and his irreverent style of Norm McDonald type delivery with his quips and his us against the Man sensitivities will be missed. For a large segment of the Ticket audience, Noon to 3 will just be a Dry Dock show in perpetuity.
Dan came 5+ years after TT's inception. 1153 is correct. I for one appreciate the time and thought you put into your comment, and you do make some good points, but Dan is not in essence an OG Tier 1 host and where you're getting that percentile from is above my paygrade. When you live in Southlake, eat salmon that's delivered by Uber Eats everyday, and have two children going to college out of state, the Us vs. The Man thing doesn't really come off as too terribly genuine. And when it comes to Dan, it certainly does not. I think you're conflating yourself with a large segment of TT audience. If they are gone, I'll miss THZ. Not for all the named segments but for the sports analysis. Mostly Jakes', that is. Other than that, eh, meh. TT is a sports station that also talks about everyday stuff (guy talk). But it's a sports station first and foremost. The entire premise of TF is guy talk with sports peppered in. THZ, if it migrates over to TF, will fit in nicely there. At least at first. I have a feeling Jake will soon find himself he was working sports and not discussing his thoughts on hand held vacuums. Which is where things will go in short order. If you don't believe me, I invite you to tune into any of TF shows. It's where things necessarily go when you have no guiding principal other than we say what we want. Freedom is found within boundaries. Only the idiot believes otherwise.
Actually Anon 1135 the ratings books show your statement to be mathematically untrue. Some of the ticket audience doesn't listen to 12 to 3 but most do.
11:52, is it that they actually have a very high number of listeners? Or that they have a high amount of listeners for ppl that are listening to radio at that time? Regardless of ratings numbers, musers and hardline prob have more actual listeners by a decent margin
I'm obviously less in the know than some of you with what sound like pretty good sources (although I think C's "sales rep" sources (906) should probably be looking over their shoulders to have allowed attribution of their information).
But I don't know. Going on strike doesn't automatically mean departure, no matter how dire the prospects for settlement may appear. Lots of serious disagreements get settled at the courthouse steps.
I don't know what Jake's financial situation is. I'd be skeptical that he would rely on family money or his wife's income, if family money/income there is, as a backstop to post-Ticket failure. He's certainly due a payday, and I'm sure Cumulus isn't asking him to continue to work for peanuts, or even his salary since he stepped into the 12-3 host gig. But to ask his young family to say goodbye to that kind of security (and, by the way -- it ain't just a paycheck, it's health insurance, paid vacation, time off to deal with personal issues, and other benefits) in favor of hoping to monetize some podcast/self-branding thing in an absolute ocean of other sports/pop culture/entertainment podcasts -- well, the grass may be greener, but it's still just grass.
Dan -- probably equal to Corby as a polarizing force on the station. Probably has a list of Cumulus grievances, as suggested above. Whether he's playing Jake's Svengali -- I doubt it. Jake and TC are way hipper on the new world of digital communication and how to monetize it. I gather that It's Just Banter has been successful, no? I don't know that for a fact, but I've seen some suggestions here that it makes money.
So: Maybe D+J have a strong bargaining position, maybe they're deluded. In any event, I haven't given up on their continued tenure at The Ticket. I just hope it doesn't reach the point where pride requires them to refuse to bargain if they don't get some of the things they want, and ditto Cumulus. Much as I like them and their show, they're absolutely not in the position of star athletes who can command (in effect) a piece of their employer's action.
As others have pointed out -- one result of their absence is that we're reminded of the strength of The Ticket's bench. Are some of the teams we've heard recently equivalent to D+J? My vote -- somewhere between maybe+ and yes-.
Whatever happens, The Ticket will be fine with or without them. I'm not sure I can say the same for them if they leave.
Ok 12:10 explain then. I’d love to learn. Maybe I’ve been misunderstanding the ratings numbers. What numbers do you have for musers, hangzone and hardline?
I don’t have the numbers in front of me, but there’s just less people listening to THZ compared to AM and PM drive. The shares are similar (so percentage of audience available) but the midday audience is much smaller. Remember that a large percentage of listening is in car, and there are a lot less people driving mid day C
Craig thanked Gordo again after doing the segments he is supposed to do. I have always thought it is strange that Gordon is thanked every time he does what he is scheduled to do such as the Observation Deck, Muse in the news and other products like that.
From what I'm reading it almost sounds like they were trying to kill negotiations. What they were asking for is tantamount to what a superstar athlete a la Messi or Le Bron would serk. No co in their right mins would agee to it.
Band of Gold has been played twice. Once to open the show, and another time before one of the 8AM segments. Band of Gold begins with the line "Now that you're gone"
I'm going to have to take a sports walk. I'm a HZ P1 and an IJB Patreon subscriber. If they go the podcast route, the product will still be great and I'll listen but I'm still very sad about this. Like so many, I spend more time with the Ticket hosts than anyone else in my sphere so having a disturbance in the force is jarring. Still hoping for a hail mary to save this thing but it is not looking good.
Maybe I’m wrong, but I doubt The Ticket will announce anything formally. They’re not going to go on air and say, “That show you guys liked isn’t coming back because we wouldn’t pay them what they wanted.” They’ll just start piloting other shows, slide WIP into one of the slots, and it will just kind of happen.
Can’t believe Jake busted his ass for so many years, finally got his shot and his dream job and is willing to bail after a couple of years when his show is the best its ever been (and the best show on the station).
I think it's fair to rule out the "Dumb and Dumber" option. Dan and Jake both seem savvy enough to avoid making emotionally driven miscalculations, unlike at least some of their recent precedents.
If they're gone, it's because they've got a better deal, or opportunity, or both, somewhere else.
Won't miss Jake. Have never liked him. He's got a bag. He's a younger version of Strum. Read a bunch of stats and regurgitate on the air...how entertaining.
Will miss Dan. I think he's very funny.
If this ends up being true and Jack Kemp is gone hoping Strum isn't far behind. More time for Gen X Davey would be great.
I’m guessing Donnie takes a bigger role, which I’m a fan of. People might not love Dan and Jake but they have excellent chemistry. Still feel like that’s lacking in the PM drive show. Any new show will take a while to develop, if it ever does.
This is a random question for you guys with more radio knowledge...
Obviously, D&J can't take drops with them. Is the show name, and all the segment names owned by TT, or are those guys free to take them? I am not very familiar with intellectual property or random segment names in radio.
AND, I assume L4G will no longer be on WTDS? If so, who is now concerned about what is in Norm's underwear?
Will either Dan or Jake go on Gordon's Twitch or discord? That may be where we get the real story or after Sioris' less-than-stellar appearance there has Gordo been warned off that by the Cumulus Overlords?
I am very surprised by this. Dan was not my favorite host, in fact, he's only preceded by Corbie as a host which makes me punch out. I liked Jake. I liked his sports points and I've had more actual interaction with him than any host. He's always treated me with respect and kindness. He seems like a genuinely good human. I admire how hard he worked to get where he is. I hope he continues to find success with this new venture.
I wonder if there's more than just money at issue? Is something rotten in the State of the Ticket?
The thought I keep coming back to is when is the Ticket no longer the Ticket. I don't think this is the end of the Ticket but I think it is the end of an era of local radio we won't see again. Again, I don't think its the end but it an end.
Let's not forget, Bob and Dan nearly left the Ticket several years back to join The Fan. It was some last minute calls from the on air legacies that kept them at the Ticket. So, Dan has had an itch to leave for some time.
At the Freak, Rhyner is pushing 80 and won't be an on air talent very long. And his crew are all in their 50s. I applaud him for trying to catch lighting in a bottle a second time but circumstances were ripe for a station like the Ticket in the 1990s. Today, people are not as invested in terrestrial radio and a young demo is less likely to try a new station full of "old men." If Dan and Jake were to move over they would likely do so with the understanding they would be back with Sirois, Danny and work drive time. Or reunite with Julie. Would people at the Freak be upset? Maybe, but they see the ratings and realize it's a business. I am not real sure Dan and Jake would help but they need to do something.
Stand down.
ReplyDeleteBook it.
Say no more.
Word has it: merger with the Freak: Downbeat to 3-7: hardline to 12-3; 10-12 would be hang zone (with Donny) but Jake and Dan are balking.
DeleteNEWSDan McDowell and Jake Kemp Exit The Ticket in Dallas
Delete“Talks broke down over competing digital media interests Dan and Jake wished to pursue outside of a Cumulus Media partnership.”
This is non disclosure. Were they ever going? How do you know this? Trajan ads are safe on The Ticket?
ReplyDeleteSo where have they been and why aren't they on today
ReplyDeleteIt's 1030, of course they are not on right now. Plus even if t aren't on today, it's not unusual for hosts to take the Monday post vacation off. But you know all this. Congratulations on a masterful troll, Surly. Not exactly sure what you got out of it, but well executed nonetheless.
ReplyDeleteDonnie just stated he is on until 3.
ReplyDeleteSo they're going to The Fan instead?
ReplyDeleteSo are they still at the Ticket or going someplace else?
ReplyDeleteSo they're not going to TF. Yet Pman didn't say they aren't going anywhere. And it's not like Pman to be cryptic. So either something is up with THZ and he knows but for some reason is not disclosing it, or he's turn OK by the troll back onto the troll(ers).
ReplyDeleteto be fair, The Fan makes a ton more sense than rolling the dice with 971.
ReplyDeleteDrive time with the Fan....I wouldn’t love it but I couldn’t blame them for shooting their shot.
DeleteI know Donnie said they were doing 10-3 today but I still wouldn't be surprised if Dan and Jake don't show up at noon. It would not be beyond them to maximize the bit. Heck it wouldn't be beyond Dan to drive the bit into the ground. Still, this has all been a very strange incident at the little Ticket.
ReplyDeleteThe pic of the red says it all. They ain't going anywhere. All been a troll that snowballed and took on a life of its own.
ReplyDeletewhat about skipping radio completely and going the podcast route?
ReplyDeleteYes, Dan and Jake trolled us by burning extra vacation time as a bit
ReplyDeleteMaybe they'll continue to troll us by never coming back! Epic troll!
ReplyDeleteLol
DeletePlainsman I think it is kind of shitty that you are playing along with the Hangzone’s bit.
ReplyDeleteWas onto from the jump, Shurggerly.
ReplyDelete1234:
ReplyDeleteWhat is the Hang Zone's bit?
How am I playing along with it?
Would you prefer not to know what I know?
If they were gone, they would not be playing the Hang Zone open. They are just using a lot of vacation time right now before Cowboys camp starts. Nothing to see here.
ReplyDeletelol
ReplyDeleteThe Hang Zone's bit is playing audio and making fun of the people speaking but I don't see how that's relevant here
ReplyDeletethey’ve played the same HL intro for years and it isn’t the same show.
ReplyDeletePlainsman - without revealing your sources, who told you they are staying?
ReplyDeleteHe didn't say they are staying. Only that they're not going to TF. Nota bene.
ReplyDeleteAlso notice he said Dan and/or Jake and not The Hang Zone. The Hardline has zero original members but the namesake and theme are still kicking. Nota bene.
ReplyDelete1:19
ReplyDeleteI think you are onto something. There is a definitive nature to the statement from Plainsman "not going to the Freak" yet total ambiguity on any other detail such as not indicating they are going to stay at the ticket. I am going to offer the conjecture that they are going directly to syndicated nationwide talk perhaps airing on The ticket late at night.
Pman is giving back a lil somethin somethin to The Troll and its followers for the chaos they created and nurtured.
ReplyDeleteI trust Pman's sources. I don't remember a time when he made a statement here and it wasn't true. He is a writer (still not sure who), and is not prone to the bogus drop of info like others are.
ReplyDeleteI have never understood why they would leave, still don't think so. BUT, I did have a thought this morning.... Don't want to get dark, but could there be some other issue going on. I hate to speculate, but I will. Are direct and extended families OK.
If all are healthy, and THZ shows up, I personally think it is Dan trolling the entire P1 nation. I would expect nothing less.
I love how we’re all dissecting statements like Q-Anons. No judgement. I’m right there with everyone else. Someone posited that the ticket is looking to create a 10-3 show, but with a larger cast. Dan and jake, only being under contract for a three hour show, are trying to come to terms for the additional two hours.
ReplyDeleteThis would make the most sense. Or maybe I’m trying my feel better.
Please explain Dan using up all of this extra vacation time to troll the P1
ReplyDeleteCould it be health related as someone suggested? Dan does forget words quite often and early 50s is an age where early onset dementia can set in.
ReplyDeleteExactly, Surly.
ReplyDeleteI agree about the extended show time thing. Consider this:
ReplyDeleteMusers work 5:30-10, 4 hours 30 minutes
Hang Zone works 10-2:50, with WTDS starting at 2:30, 4 hours 50 minutes
Hardline works 2:30-7 (They're there for WTDS also), 4 hours 30 minutes
So I decipher from Plainsman's carefully handcrafted statement at 1:45 that Dan would not take all this vacay just to troll the P1 thus there is a contract issue in play where there is basically a standoff about the length of the show, whether the Hang zone will stay together or just how Cumulus will deploy their talents. Jake is more likely than Dan to jump at this stage of his life thereby leaving Dan, Donnie and Mino to be a likely trio with Mino jumping to the producer role for the Hardline. Am I warm Plainsman?
ReplyDelete150: I have no idea.
ReplyDeleteGranted, I don't think Dan would troll and give up all his vacay. I absolutely think this is contract related, if so, they are paying them to shut up and stay low. It isn't burning vacay.
ReplyDeleteWe all know there had to be some sort of lineup change. In the last post, or somewhere, someone mentioned that Norm going was a total surprise to Cat. If so, as a manager, you have to process the immediate change, then work to lay out a new plan.
Now, as a manager, their should have been some idea in place. If you are running an operation, and you are the guy, you have a back-up plan in place for everyone. I always know what I will do if someone walks out the door and gets hit by a DART bus. It is dark, but you have to plan.
That said, as the number 1 in market of the last several months, granted it dropped slightly, Cat HAS to be right. So, yeah, maybe take some time. Get it right. Move on.
At the same time, your #1 show has been out on vacay, and for Gordo, out of country. Given the Musers place in the world, I don't think Cat makes big moves without at least talking it through with them. If nothing else, asking the question, "How long are you guys gonna keep going?" The worst thing that could happen, a big shuffle, then another after Cowboys season.
That said, training camp is coming up. We will know very soon, based on camp attendance. I doubt there is anyway, short of something life changing, you make a big lineup change in the middle of that season.
It is 100% contract related.
ReplyDelete-GN
@143
ReplyDeleteJust don't. Just. Don't.
@Plainsman
Just what idea(s) do you have? I think 119/122 could be on to something. Are they, Plainsman?
See, I'm a D1P1 Confessor. I recall Grubes's maiden comment. I think I made mine maybe 2-3 after his. This means that I am well acquainted with Plainsman's modus loquendi. From the heading of this post to his comments, none of it resembles (what, how long has it been now, 15-16 years? Damn!), in even the slightest way, either his style or form. He has never been cryptic, never been terse (quite the opposite, in fact), and has never used spacing like he has here. I could go on a bit more but you get the point. So, either it's either as 126 claims, merely Plainsman giving what has been gotten, or, he knows the deal but is unwilling to say due to his source (Cat?) requesting him not to give specifics just yet.
For all who don't know it, GN = Gypo Nolan. Gypo was a long ago inside informant if you will. More often than not, when GN would leave a comment, the content of said commment would occur. Now is this the actual GN? Who knows.
ReplyDeleteI do think it's a bit eyebrow raising that Surly wondered aloud where Gypo Nolan was for all this and bang, a bit later a GN began leaving comments. Surly, is GN to you what So Anonymous is to Sirois??????
ReplyDeletenope
ReplyDeleteA guy can dream.
DeleteDownbeat teasing a "big announcement" at 5:10 today. I wonder what actually rates as a "big announcement" over there. If it's as "big" as the morning show announcement it's going to be unsurprisingly small.
ReplyDeleteFWIW, Jake has been on IJB and Dan was on their Patreon episode that was published 6/23. No mention of being off TT airwaves on any of the episodes. I remember the old MTC days of GN chiming in and trying to track down the source. If this version is the same from back in the day, I would take notice of their input.
ReplyDeleteI am convinced something is happening but worry we may not ever get all the details. My hope is it all gets worked out and D&J are back on the air soon. I think the shift to a 10-3 show causing a contract renegotiation would be the most plausible explanation. Also, for those saying this is all just a bit and they are on vacation, the jokes from fill ins about being out for suspension or a peen implant have been noticeably absent for HZ this time around.
My giess is the big announcement is nothing. Sirois headed stunt to het ifiots like us to tune in fir a bit and give a ratings bump.
ReplyDeleteI shan't be tuning in for that
DeleteGood points, DP.
ReplyDeleteWouldn't be something if THZ is back tomorrow and the trolls fomenting all this are Freak employees, ie., KT, Sirois, and Cavanaugh, and some Glens (gawd, and I thought TOLOs was awful).
ReplyDeleteDuring WTDS today, P1 emails were addressed to Dan. This suggests that Dan is still prepping the content for that segment and sending it to Corby. To me, this gives some hope that they will be back at some point.
ReplyDeleteCareful with your assumption DP. If Dan's email is a cumulus address then Cumulus owns the rights to that email and can redirect to Corby or whomever to read even if addressed Dan. The individual does not own their company email.
ReplyDeleteNor does the show own its namesake. Keep that in mind.
ReplyDeleteZero idea if this is legit.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.reddit.com/r/theticket/comments/152dupl/hang_zone_officially_gone_per_dan_bennett/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=2
Now I wish I could delete it. Feels like a total troll
DeleteThat Reddit account is less than year old an almost no posts. Come on.
ReplyDeleteYeah, that makes no sense. And that's not how things are done in the world of business. Especially in the big time corporate world.
ReplyDelete1. C, where are you?
ReplyDelete2. My brother in law's youngest brother is in the same business as C. He's heard nothing about Dan and/or Jake and contracts or any sort of move.
3. What he did say was that it's his understanding that iHeart is fully committed to The Freak format and that from what he's heard they have a very long leash. As in at least 3 years.
4. The long leash pertains to the format, not the talent. Keep an eye out on that front.
5. I'll say it again, C, where are you?
Apologies y'all. Shouldn't have wasted time in here. "it's on reddit" should've been my first clue
ReplyDeletei mean that was where the "Dave Lane to join the Hardline" email came from too.
ReplyDeleteSo you post something up here, then with no one prompting you to do as such offer a snarky 'apology,' then follow it up with a cocky sniff.
ReplyDeleteAs Carly Simon sings, "Nobody does it better...baby, you're the best."
Really clever, entertaining stuff, man. Keep it coming.
So uh this is being discussed by TDB. Specifically Danny. Said he kinda saw it coming.
ReplyDeleteAnnouncement coming up after the break. Rhyner doesn't appear to be on the air today. Sirois said this is a legit major announcement.
ReplyDeleteLOL Rhyner is on. He just commented on being with Sirois in not liking curly fries. He only speaks about once per 10 minutes.
ReplyDelete^^^^^^That's f'n hilarious!
ReplyDeleteBy the way, TDB is using a fake Jub laugh drop.
ReplyDeleteAs far as the BIG announcement goes:
Started out with Sirois saying "hold onto your butts."
...... Mike Rhyner is ....... a ........ grandfather (going to be).
Congrats, Rhyner. Now maybe he'll have something to talk about on the show.
Rhyner is a grandfather now. That’s their big announcement.
ReplyDeletethis. changes. everything.
ReplyDeleteFacebook post on The Ticket page is saying that Jake and Dan resigned their positions as of today.
ReplyDeleteUh no I don’t see it
Delete- The Ticket fan page, not the official Ticket page.
ReplyDeleteThey could just be reposting the same thing from Reddit
DeleteThe unticket page? They just shared the same shit from Reddit. There has been no official announcement or confirmation.
DeleteDon’t see that on Facebook?
ReplyDeleteI'm beginning to wonder if (i) they are in fact gone from The Ticket and (ii) that they are not going to a local competitor but rather or going to genuinely bet on themselves and go the BarStool route or something like it.
ReplyDeleteSomething sure seems to be up. I'm with the commmenter above who said Pman's wording and style in this post don't jibe with the rest of his output. Makes me think he's saying things rather carefully, which in turn makes me think while Dan and Jake are gone from The Ticket, their destination is not The Freak. I don't believe he would've been so explicit about the latter and not say something to the effect of them staying put unless he's got information saying otherwise.
The plot thickens by the minute.
*are going to genuinely bet on themselves*
ReplyDeleteLol? Care to give the antecedent?
ReplyDeleteLol, I think Reddit is locked down to no new threads and they deleted a bunch.
ReplyDeleteWTF is going on with all this? It didn't get this crazy even during the Greggo days. I hope THZ isn't gone, but if they are we'll all make it through the other side, I promise. Sheesh.
ReplyDeleteOh hey, isn't Dan Clay Travis' step-brother in law?
ReplyDelete“Where’s Greggo” would have BROKEN reddit
ReplyDeleteYuppers. Plainsman ditching his usual word salad style tells me all I need to know. They gone. They ain't gone to TF. But they gone.
ReplyDeleteI imagine he simply posted what he received from someone he knows to be a reliable source. Doubt he knows more than that if he's not saying so.
ReplyDeleteI’m really tired of all the back and forth and hysteria of everything around Dan and Jake. I’m going to log off for awhile and take a break. If they don’t show up to Cowboy’s Training Camp next week, then we will know they are gone. Until then, I’m going to be optimistic that everything is ok at the mothership.
ReplyDeleteWell if they are gone look on the bright side: We never have to hear Jake's fake (and terribly executed) East Coast accent (e.g., bawl for ball, et al) again and nor do we have to hear Dan bog and whine and (terribly execute) the gotcha game again. Win-win.
ReplyDeleteI certainly initially thought the posted email wasn’t legit, but now I think it was. Corby made a really quick under his breath comment during e-news that was very telling. He was talking about Christopher Nolan being paranoid about using email or even snail mail when sending script info out, so he flew to hand deliver a script to Cillian Murphy.
ReplyDeleteCorby: “because he didn’t trust email, he didn’t trust mail…he wants NOTHING...”
Ty: “No middle men”
Mino “Smart”
Corby: “he wants nothing getting out (aswe’refindingout) he wants NOTHING getting out!”
I complain about the hangzone more than any other show and really do not like Dan that much but I find Myself hoping they will stay lol
ReplyDeleteI think I have figured it out! Jake and Dan are good friends with Bryan Curtis the Editor at Large with The Ringer who runs one of the most successful and prolific podcast networks in the world. Methinks the betting on themselves thing sees them ending up as an edgy sports talk show on the Ringer where they also mingle with guys talk. Jake can also fulfill his obligations as a writer on Theringer.com
ReplyDeleteNo inside info but this makes too much sense. Think big and outside the box.
It makes sense to a degree, but Dan is such an acquired taste that I think that a national show could be a tough sell.
Deletethere's no way they're not gone. no way. i bet they sit out the n.c. be it jake's, dan's or both of them. if dan's contract was up wouldn't that void his n.c.? and didn't jake reup last year, which you'd think he'd still have a n.c. in place? dunno. maybe someone out there has that info. my guess is despite plainsman's claim, their next home will be at tf. perhaps plainsman's source only knew they weren't immediately bolting for tf or didn't say they were, hence him saying they weren't going to tf. i'm with all the others who think plainsman not saying they're still at tt bears weight and tells the story. i think their departure is going to affect ratings and the entire vibe of the station for both the varsity and jv and the listener alike in a profound way. as in it'll be the real beginning of the end of tt as we've known it. i believe the dominos will soon begin to fall. take that how you may.
ReplyDeleteThat email is real per a ticket sales guy I know. Dan and Jake are out. I’m out of town on vacation, will post more when I’m back
ReplyDeleteC
Like your thinking there, 6:23. Such a move has THZ written all over it. As you say, it makes too much sense. And they get to work from home, or at least at Dan's home studio which is down the road from Jake. Makes too much damn sense.
ReplyDeleteWHOA WHOA WHOA. C, I'm now hearing this too. Holy smokes! This is not a test.
ReplyDeleteI KNEW there was something off about this post and the manner in which Pman presented it. He told the truth, but not the whole truth. Come on now, Pman, let the rest of the Cat out of the bag.
ReplyDeletetf could be The Freak or The Fan
ReplyDeletehonestly at this point, if they are going to another local station, the Fan has shown more longevity than the Freak. Fan will be around tomorrow. The Freak may not be on the air by the time Rhyner's squid's squid is born.
I don’t know what 6:30 is talking about. I’m not on vacation and haven’t heard anything.
ReplyDeleteC
TF isn't going anywhere. TSE and even B&S might. Even TDB might be retooled at some point in the nearish to mid future. But rest assured, iHeart is running with TF. iHeart envisions the future of terrestrial radio as hybrid of traditional over the airwaves broadcasting with the latest in technology that leans heavily on real time interfacings between talent and listener. They're viewing TF as a prototype. So despite the prognostications, TF isn't going anywhere anytime soon.
ReplyDeleteHate to pull a Karle Rove, but you may wanna hold on. My source, which is inner circle, responded very peculiarly. As if rote. As if scripted toward ignorance. Something is still going on.
ReplyDeleteI think 634 is 630. I also think there's a lot of "Glen"/Sirois directed shennanigans going on and have been for days now. If you listened to TDB's announcment, you would've hear Sirois welcome all the new listeners. I guess this is funny?
ReplyDeleteSucks that someone would imitate you, C. Surprised that now you have said as much, Plainsman hasn't deleted the imposter comment.
Dan and Jake are trending on Twitter.
ReplyDeleteThreads or it didn’t happen.
DeleteDamn someone imitating C. I trust His/her posts pretty highly. Not cool, imitator.
ReplyDeleteNot surprising, Gopher. I know you're a radio board guy, as am I (seen your handle on the DFW board). I haven't caught one whiff of anything on this front. If something was cooking in the oven, don't you think Richie Whitt would know about it and shout to the heavens, "I told you all this last August!!!!"? Of course he would. So I don't think THZ is going to TF. I'm still not convinced they've left TT. I think tomorrow will be telling. Did anyone hear Donnie say he or someone else would be back in that slot tomorrow?
ReplyDeleteI listened to the teases out of the last segment before WTDS and the overtalking during the ender of WTDS and heard nothing. Seems like it's day to day...? Which would support a "this is a contract negotiation" argument.
DeleteAnon 7:09
ReplyDeleteThat's what has been so odd about this whole thing. They have been on radio silence about all of this. If there was "something in the air" it would be mentioned there.
6:53 was me. Stop putting much stock into Anon posts right now. Our pets heads are falling off.
ReplyDeleteWhy would you impersonate another commenter? That's creepy, for starters.
ReplyDeleteCorby's 'as we're finding out' comment has me pretty convinced the Dan Bennett email is real. Guess now we just have to wait to see how they're going to handle it all.
ReplyDelete7:31 Because everyone needs to realize how random this shit is Anon.
ReplyDeleteThat's not the point, Wut, and you know it. That shit's wrong.
ReplyDeleteAnon 7:37 This is turning into a game of Among Us. It’s insane. And it’s gotten old.
ReplyDeleteWell guess wut—Dan and Jake are done at The Ticket
ReplyDeleteLet's grant that THZ quit TT. At least in the short to mid term it won't really affect ratings. Why? Look at what TT is up against: B&S and a K&C Masterpiece/GBaG combo platter. You could run out Rotten Radio from here to eternity and still get beat them all. So in one way, this is a helluva opportunity for in-house talent to show the market what they really have. Hello Monty, Mino, DJ, whomever along with Donnie. Or even Donnie + an established talent + an up and comer.
ReplyDeleteNow let's say THZ does have to sit out a, say, 6 mo NC and at that point either becomes TF AM Drive or iHeart 86s B&S and THZ gets its timeslot back. To the former, while they would most likely provide DnM with their first taste of actual competition in over 20 years, I don't think they'll come close enough to scare them. They might put some old juice back into DnM's veins and make them even better. Of course, if DnM retire in a couple-few years, then there's a good chance THZ would best whatever TT puts up vs them. To the latter, I'd say that barring a "Romo mirrrrrracccccllllle" yes, THZ would best TT during those hours.
But here's the rub. If they do sit out a NC for, again, say 6 mos, don't be shocked if their numbers aren't so great. Even if the latter scenario plays out. We tend to be out of sight out of mind creatures. We move on, pretty quickly, and we find new favorites. There's also this, and I know it's not going to be a popular opinion: I'm not so sure THZ is actually that good. I'm not so sure Dan and Jake are a good pairing. And if they have TC involved, which I can't imagine they won't, that dynamic most likely won't help things. I don't say that to bash TC. I intend it as the mixture of the three on a daily, weekly, monthly, yearly basis. It will quickly become an echo chamber, on every level. But, if there is no NC to sit out and THZ immediately becomes a competitor in either the AM Drive or afternoon slot, I believe in the case of the former they will find out in fairly quick order that they are going to have to wait for their turn at bat; in the case of the latter, well, they'll immediately become the flagship show of TF. But when your flagship show is middays, another can of worms will open up.
Aside: It's my assertion that Dan has never nor will ever get over that he wasn't asked to join THL and/or BaD wasn't moved there once the reshuffling of the lineup was finalized after Rhyner's "retirement."
Naw Wut. What you did was rotten.
ReplyDeleteHow do you know for sure, Surly?
How long has Jake’s Twitter bio said “welost”?
ReplyDelete^^^^^Over a year.
ReplyDeleteDetty on Top 10 about 15 minutes ago “The invasion in all this week at midday”
ReplyDeleteYeah, that's an ender. Case closed, y'all. They Audi.
ReplyDeleteOof... kind of sad to realize we'll never hear them on The Ticket again. In a lot of ways the relationships between all the hosts and board ops are what makes the station and their show, and this is a big blow to both.
ReplyDeleteOk my phone is blowing up so let me fill in what I know. I’m friends with a couple of the ticket sales reps, so here’s what I’m told: As the Bennett email said, it’s been in negotiations which is why this has been so flying by the seat of the pants. I’m told THZ was expected back after their vacation and decided to hold out while negotiations continued. That’s when we started getting rotten radio, replays, etc as they scrambled to fill what they didn’t know they needed to fill. I’m told there’s verbiage about it broke down over competing interests. I believe Dan and Jake wanted to do whole show podcasts a la the Freak and monetize them for themselves. Cumulus didn’t want full show podcasts ( arguably understandable, those don’t register in the ratings like signal or stream, so cannabilizes your own audience). Cumulus also wouldn’t go for letting them monetize it themselves as THZ could sell a sponsorship to the podcast undercutting their sales to a client. Why pay market rate to Cumulus when you could sell a cheaper side deal with THZ? If those stories are correct (and again, this is what I’m told, not first hand knowledge) I understand Cumulus not wanting to set a precedent. More on the fallout after this break…
ReplyDeleteC
They are vastly overestimating the Econs of a podcast if that’s true. Nice alongside their regular gig but standalone, a podcast is a great way to work more and make less
DeleteGood shit, C. Bring it, brutha.
ReplyDeleteI'm gonna be the dummy who believes this is all a negotiating tactic and they'll eventually hammer out a new deal up until the NC expiring...
ReplyDeleteI think I agree with anon at 8:08pm. A lot of people said losing Sirois, Danny, Julie and Rhyner would be the death of the ticket. And yet, the ticket not only survived but thrived. I think the Rhyner departure/reappearance at the Freak shows that inertia is a hell of a thing. For all the people that proclaimed the Wolf as their leader, all those people are good for an average listenership around 20th in the ratings m25-54. I’m told there’s definitely a non compete in play. So if they do show up in 6 months on Fitzhugh or the Dallas Parkway, how much of a dent will they make. As people have said, Dan is an acquired taste. But TT listeners are about to have 5-6 months to get their tastebuds used to Donnie and friends 10-3. Or Donnie and Trahan 10-12 and Mino and Monty 12-3. Or whatever they roll out. Iheart rolled out a ton of billboards for TF launch. And it got them nothing. How much will Audacy or Iheart pay to promote THZ, and what is the ROI on that? And THZ is to me a very undisciplined show. Too rambly, too long to get to a point. Not as worrisome when you’re a midday show with a loyal audience. Much more problematic if you’re going up against the ratings juggernaut of the Musers. Inertia is a hell of a thing. How many people post here, Reddit, etc? Compare your estimate to the Tickets cume. There’s a heck of a lot more people listening that posting here. And the average listener won’t know where they pop up they will just know oh there’s a new show that replaced THZ.
ReplyDeleteThey make make inroads. But those inroads lead straight up hill.
C
So plainsman thought not going to TF, C thinks it’s possible. If hangzone is trying to do some podcast network or something, it may be be an ok idea. If they end up in AM or PM drive? Idk. Dan getting caught up in what’s Moab, mayo has eggs, where’s the panhandle, etc, is ok when you got 20 min of downtime at work to tune and don’t really care. But idk if I want that for my morning commute. And idk how bad the casual p1/radio listener does either.
ReplyDelete“ A lot of people said losing Sirois, Danny, Julie and Rhyner would be the death of the ticket.”
ReplyDeleteNobody said that.
Check out Plainsman thread from 10/2. Comment made at 19/3, 313pm- “THL RIP, the downbeat is going to crush”.
Delete459p- quoted from the DMN article” to hell with the Ticket, I hope the freak takes them down.”
10/4 542p- “TF will go down as a game changing force”.
Skip to the 10/6 thread, and on 10/8 at 654p we have “the ticket is in its last days metaphorically speaking”
So while I don’t have a direct quote, I think it’s fair to interpret that 654p comment as predicting the death of the ticket. Or does “in its last days” not mean approaching death to you?
C
PS plainsman give yourself credit, check out your comment on 10/7 at 1040a, where you talk about mid 2023 we’d be discussing Whitts prediction of THZ jump to TF. He hit the timing right, if not the exact jump.
“A lot of people said losing Sirois, Danny, Julie and Rhyner would be the death of the ticket.”
ReplyDeleteNo one said that.
Are you also catching wind that they will indeed end up at TF after the NC is up? I'm with you and 808, Dan and Jake might be about to learn the rough and ego bruising lesson Rhyner and to a lesser extent Sirois have learned: Parts are rarely if ever bigger than the whole. We're loyal to the laundry, not the players. People actually booed Emmitt as a Cardinal. They booed Carlisle as coach of the Pacers. That is the reality of the real world. If you think, well they'll just do a podcast and call it something else while they sit out the NC and keep generating interest and all will be well.... think again. Doing a daily or most days podcast is a lot of work. A lot of work that you will make dick off of. Yes, there are situations where the new place of employment will pay you as you sit out a NC. iHeart is not one of them. Take that to the bank. This is why I ask C if he's heard anything on iHeart's involvement. There's also all THZ segments and songs and all the rest (oh yes, perhaps even the name) that are most likely Cumulus's intellectual property.
ReplyDeleteDan and Jake may soon come to regret this. Especially if what's being reported (why everything broke down and in the manner it did) is true. Having said this, 922 might every well be onto something.
Jinx
ReplyDeleteSurly, you are a regular reddit contributor. You know damn well that's pretty much ALL that was bandied about. I read those comments here too, though they weren't as ubiquitous as they were on reddit. So come off it, man.
ReplyDeleteYep. Death of the hardline, corbys done, won’t listen after the hangzone anymore. The comments were endless, and upvoted highly.
DeleteHopefully 922 will be right. For Jake to stick around at the ticket for so long, get a hosting gig, keep IJB going, write for D mag, and then bail on ticket because they can’t do another podcast? He should be paid fairly but I mean..
ReplyDeleteAgree with 9:41. We don’t know all (or any of) the details but this all seems…hasty. Is Jake getting bad advice from Dan here?
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteJust so disappointed they bailed. I’ll listen on whatever service they post on.
ReplyDeleteMake that money playboy….sigh…
ReplyDeleteExactly, 944. All the living wage stuff, the Norm and Cat are the greediest, most evil humans in the history of the world, Sirois was the only thing worth a shit at and was the future of TT, Julie was the freshest of fresh air who did no wrong and was being maltreated, I mean..... it went on and on for months. That and OGW is my leader and I ride or die with him. TT is dying, it FORCED the only true talents that would save it to seek employment elsewhere. Yada da yada da yada. Lather, rinse, repeat. So yeah, those things were absolutely said.
ReplyDeleteThey’re getting paid. Simple as that. It’s not podcasts or other flotsam. Either the Fan or the Freak are putting them in AM/PM drive. Dan has been in a underpaying daypart for almost 25 years. Jake has been hanging on loyally for years in underpaid roles and probably didn’t get lifted up in 2020 when he finally did get an on air role for obvious reasons. They got an offer they couldn’t refuse and Atlanta didn’t want to match. I don’t blame them at all. And I’ll tune in
ReplyDeleteI love the dichotomy. We have both Cathers salary is a rounding error in THZ’s salary AND dans in an underpaying daypart for 25 years. Which is it? Do they make a lot or are they underpaid?
DeleteYa the subreddit went from promoting the freak as the de jure new ticket for true p1s from 3-7, to being a joke and punching bag on the subreddit real quick.
ReplyDeleteAlso to 949, Jake getting bad advice from Dan. I’m not gonna accuse Dan of anything but Dan is obsessed with the nba player movement style, as well as the “everything new is better” mindset. So who knows.
How has Dan been underpaid? He wasn't in drive time. The station he is/was at have AM/PM drive time juggernauts. Why would they jettison either of those shows? Jake chose to "hang on loyally" for years in "underpaid" roles. He was able to so, like most all of these guys are, because he had other means (e.g., parents, other sources of income) that allowed for him to do as such. How some of you know what others are paid, their loyalties (whatever the f that means), and all the rest beggars belief. See, Surly, these are the people who said exactly what you claim they didn't (death of TT, etc.).
ReplyDeleteYou might be correct in that they're getting paid elsewhere and it's a simple as that. But there are a few out there with real connections/are actually in the business themselves that are saying otherwise. I'll buy their version over yours until it's shown otherwise, thank you. But if you're correct, I'll be the first to come on here and eat crow. You have my word.
By all means, tune in.
Indeed, C. We might all have to begrudgingly bow down to Whitt. Looking more like it by the hour. Crap.
ReplyDeleteWhen one thinks that they might need to give credit to RW, just remember he chose to the be mouthpiece to the doomsday prepping scam of Trident Lakes and shouldn’t get the benefit of any doubt
DeleteWith what’s happened at the freak since it’s inception, I’m shocked if the HZ goes there.
ReplyDeleteAll of this makes Norm's retirement interesting. Was it just a coincidence? Seems like unfortunate timing now - even if you weren't a fan of his show, I would think it would be good to have him around for stability from 10-12 for a little longer while they figure out how to replace THZ
ReplyDeleteDan has sent daughters to out of state schools, eats salmon every day, doesn’t cook any meal, Uber eats everything, lives in south lake. Whatever he’s being paid, it’s not bad.
ReplyDeleteAnd being paid the kinda salary (and benefits) that affords such a lifestyle must be kept up, at all times, else that lifestyle will go bye bye in no time flat. Out of state tuition is a bitch, yo.
ReplyDeleteI This isn't truly over and they'll come back to the table and hammer out a deal, back on air next Monday.
II This is over and they have a deal in place with either iHeart, CBS, or something else for hella money and will be paid to sit out any NC.
III This is over and they are really fucking dumb.
Yeah, but when someone's right, they're right. Regardless of what a TWHITT, rock me, they are. He was dead on about TF, including Danny. And as of now his tidbit about THZ is looking to be dead on too. Timing and all. So give the fucko his due.
ReplyDeleteIf D&J were leaving, the DMN would be chasing the story. I will believe this is happening when the DMN reports it.
ReplyDeleteBAD Radio staying merited news coverage. The HZ would also merit such coverage.
That lack of story is telling
I’m not in the business but I’d be shocked if any execs from cbs listened to the hangzone and thought they should try and poach them
ReplyDelete@11:00 Nothing can be officially confirmed yet. When it is they’ll run it.
ReplyDeleteC
It's real and it's spectacular.
ReplyDeleteI respectfully but completely disagree with C at 9:23 when he calls THZ an undisciplined show. They have hands down the best and most entertaining open (The Kid production), all the benchmarks including business Tuesday, News news news at 1:30, picks with friends during football season, ad hoc Kemp spins, to the great WTDS and the great contributions from Blake and also meticulous producing from Blake where he keeps incredible notes on everything ever said and can call back up as a humorous bit. THZ had hit its stride this year and was humming on all cylinders. This will be a loss for The Ticket no matter how much we think things will stay the same in perpetuity. All things come to an end and losing Dan who for 95% of the Ticket audience is in essence an original Tier 1 day 1 even though he came a few years after the start, is a huge deal. Let's not kid ourselves - Dan and his irreverent style of Norm McDonald type delivery with his quips and his us against the Man sensitivities will be missed. For a large segment of the Ticket audience, Noon to 3 will just be a Dry Dock show in perpetuity.
ReplyDeleteA large portion of the ticket audience doesn’t listen 12-3
ReplyDeleteCan y’all believe my trolling actually caused Dan and Jake to leave The Ticket? Crazy.
ReplyDeleteDan came 5+ years after TT's inception. 1153 is correct. I for one appreciate the time and thought you put into your comment, and you do make some good points, but Dan is not in essence an OG Tier 1 host and where you're getting that percentile from is above my paygrade. When you live in Southlake, eat salmon that's delivered by Uber Eats everyday, and have two children going to college out of state, the Us vs. The Man thing doesn't really come off as too terribly genuine. And when it comes to Dan, it certainly does not. I think you're conflating yourself with a large segment of TT audience. If they are gone, I'll miss THZ. Not for all the named segments but for the sports analysis. Mostly Jakes', that is. Other than that, eh, meh. TT is a sports station that also talks about everyday stuff (guy talk). But it's a sports station first and foremost. The entire premise of TF is guy talk with sports peppered in. THZ, if it migrates over to TF, will fit in nicely there. At least at first. I have a feeling Jake will soon find himself he was working sports and not discussing his thoughts on hand held vacuums. Which is where things will go in short order. If you don't believe me, I invite you to tune into any of TF shows. It's where things necessarily go when you have no guiding principal other than we say what we want. Freedom is found within boundaries. Only the idiot believes otherwise.
ReplyDeleteNo shit, Surly. Well done, my man!
ReplyDeleteActually Anon 1135 the ratings books show your statement to be mathematically untrue. Some of the ticket audience doesn't listen to 12 to 3 but most do.
ReplyDelete11:52, is it that they actually have a very high number of listeners? Or that they have a high amount of listeners for ppl that are listening to radio at that time? Regardless of ratings numbers, musers and hardline prob have more actual listeners by a decent margin
ReplyDeleteMathematically untrue. Lol. You bared your tush. Go home.
ReplyDeleteI'm obviously less in the know than some of you with what sound like pretty good sources (although I think C's "sales rep" sources (906) should probably be looking over their shoulders to have allowed attribution of their information).
ReplyDeleteBut I don't know. Going on strike doesn't automatically mean departure, no matter how dire the prospects for settlement may appear. Lots of serious disagreements get settled at the courthouse steps.
I don't know what Jake's financial situation is. I'd be skeptical that he would rely on family money or his wife's income, if family money/income there is, as a backstop to post-Ticket failure. He's certainly due a payday, and I'm sure Cumulus isn't asking him to continue to work for peanuts, or even his salary since he stepped into the 12-3 host gig. But to ask his young family to say goodbye to that kind of security (and, by the way -- it ain't just a paycheck, it's health insurance, paid vacation, time off to deal with personal issues, and other benefits) in favor of hoping to monetize some podcast/self-branding thing in an absolute ocean of other sports/pop culture/entertainment podcasts -- well, the grass may be greener, but it's still just grass.
Dan -- probably equal to Corby as a polarizing force on the station. Probably has a list of Cumulus grievances, as suggested above. Whether he's playing Jake's Svengali -- I doubt it. Jake and TC are way hipper on the new world of digital communication and how to monetize it. I gather that It's Just Banter has been successful, no? I don't know that for a fact, but I've seen some suggestions here that it makes money.
So: Maybe D+J have a strong bargaining position, maybe they're deluded. In any event, I haven't given up on their continued tenure at The Ticket. I just hope it doesn't reach the point where pride requires them to refuse to bargain if they don't get some of the things they want, and ditto Cumulus. Much as I like them and their show, they're absolutely not in the position of star athletes who can command (in effect) a piece of their employer's action.
As others have pointed out -- one result of their absence is that we're reminded of the strength of The Ticket's bench. Are some of the teams we've heard recently equivalent to D+J? My vote -- somewhere between maybe+ and yes-.
Whatever happens, The Ticket will be fine with or without them. I'm not sure I can say the same for them if they leave.
Ok 12:10 explain then. I’d love to learn. Maybe I’ve been misunderstanding the ratings numbers. What numbers do you have for musers, hangzone and hardline?
ReplyDeleteI wonder if the hit counts peaked here yesterday.
ReplyDeleteI don’t have the numbers in front of me, but there’s just less people listening to THZ compared to AM and PM drive. The shares are similar (so percentage of audience available) but the midday audience is much smaller. Remember that a large percentage of listening is in car, and there are a lot less people driving mid day
ReplyDeleteC
Exactly how I thought it worked C, thank you
ReplyDeleteJust woke up. Any real news?
ReplyDeleteYes 7:10
ReplyDeleteCraig thanked Gordo again after doing the segments he is supposed to do. I have always thought it is strange that Gordon is thanked every time he does what he is scheduled to do such as the Observation Deck, Muse in the news and other products like that.
return cuts confirm Dan & Jake are gone
ReplyDeleteWhat have they been?
Deletehttps://barrettsportsmedia.com/2023/07/18/dan-mcdowell-jake-kemp-exit-1310-96-7-the-ticket/
ReplyDeleteStarting to think D n J are too cute by half. Bad decision, coach. There's betting on yourself and then there's hubris.
ReplyDeleteI was among those saying that things would return to normal once the weekend passed. This is sad, man. The return cuts on The Musers tell the story.
ReplyDeleteI missed them. Examples, please.
DeleteThey're buying into the bit coin of the gig media. Hard lessons will soon be learned.
ReplyDeleteIt’s official.
ReplyDeletehttps://radioinsight.com/headlines/254823/dan-mcdowell-jake-kemp-resign-from-ktck/
ReplyDeleteFrom what I'm reading it almost sounds like they were trying to kill negotiations. What they were asking for is tantamount to what a superstar athlete a la Messi or Le Bron would serk. No co in their right mins would agee to it.
ReplyDeleteBand of Gold has been played twice. Once to open the show, and another time before one of the 8AM segments. Band of Gold begins with the line "Now that you're gone"
ReplyDeleteI'm going to have to take a sports walk. I'm a HZ P1 and an IJB Patreon subscriber. If they go the podcast route, the product will still be great and I'll listen but I'm still very sad about this. Like so many, I spend more time with the Ticket hosts than anyone else in my sphere so having a disturbance in the force is jarring. Still hoping for a hail mary to save this thing but it is not looking good.
ReplyDeleteWell, I was wrong. They must have something seriously lucrative in the background. Wow!
ReplyDeleteLet the posturing and speculation begin for vacant slots.
I am really shocked that an announcement was not made yesterday and we are all finding out through radio board websites.
Maybe I’m wrong, but I doubt The Ticket will announce anything formally. They’re not going to go on air and say, “That show you guys liked isn’t coming back because we wouldn’t pay them what they wanted.” They’ll just start piloting other shows, slide WIP into one of the slots, and it will just kind of happen.
ReplyDeleteI don't the P-Man has to worry about his blog withering away any time soon. He's going to need a bunch of reds.
ReplyDeleteGeorge just said the return music this morning are in memory of his sister.
ReplyDeleteMaybe. When one of these radio news websites or someone else gets a quote from Dan, Jake or someone at the Ticket, I’ll believe it is real.
ReplyDelete9:37 is right. They seem to avoid this stuff until the dust is settled.
ReplyDeleteCan’t believe Jake busted his ass for so many years, finally got his shot and his dream job and is willing to bail after a couple of years when his show is the best its ever been (and the best show on the station).
ReplyDeleteHow long was it before they would openly talk about Greggo, other than the basic fact that he was gone?
ReplyDeleteShocked by Jake too. Just because he wanted to do podcasts and already has a podcast?
ReplyDelete@1000 Greggo was a different situation due to his substance use. he "resigned" technically and no doubt lawyers and HR were involved.
ReplyDeleteNew post, no red at this writing.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI think it's fair to rule out the "Dumb and Dumber" option. Dan and Jake both seem savvy enough to avoid making emotionally driven miscalculations, unlike at least some of their recent precedents.
ReplyDeleteIf they're gone, it's because they've got a better deal, or opportunity, or both, somewhere else.
Won't miss Jake. Have never liked him. He's got a bag. He's a younger version of Strum. Read a bunch of stats and regurgitate on the air...how entertaining.
ReplyDeleteWill miss Dan. I think he's very funny.
If this ends up being true and Jack Kemp is gone hoping Strum isn't far behind. More time for Gen X Davey would be great.
The Greggo thing was entirely different because it involved a host of contractual and legal issues involving a person with a drug addiction.
ReplyDeleteI’m guessing Donnie takes a bigger role, which I’m a fan of. People might not love Dan and Jake but they have excellent chemistry. Still feel like that’s lacking in the PM drive show. Any new show will take a while to develop, if it ever does.
ReplyDeleteThis is a random question for you guys with more radio knowledge...
ReplyDeleteObviously, D&J can't take drops with them. Is the show name, and all the segment names owned by TT, or are those guys free to take them? I am not very familiar with intellectual property or random segment names in radio.
AND, I assume L4G will no longer be on WTDS? If so, who is now concerned about what is in Norm's underwear?
Will either Dan or Jake go on Gordon's Twitch or discord? That may be where we get the real story or after Sioris' less-than-stellar appearance there has Gordo been warned off that by the Cumulus Overlords?
ReplyDeleteI am very surprised by this. Dan was not my favorite host, in fact, he's only preceded by Corbie as a host which makes me punch out. I liked Jake. I liked his sports points and I've had more actual interaction with him than any host. He's always treated me with respect and kindness. He seems like a genuinely good human. I admire how hard he worked to get where he is. I hope he continues to find success with this new venture.
I wonder if there's more than just money at issue? Is something rotten in the State of the Ticket?
The thought I keep coming back to is when is the Ticket no longer the Ticket. I don't think this is the end of the Ticket but I think it is the end of an era of local radio we won't see again. Again, I don't think its the end but it an end.
YMMV
KDF
Let's not forget, Bob and Dan nearly left the Ticket several years back to join The Fan. It was some last minute calls from the on air legacies that kept them at the Ticket. So, Dan has had an itch to leave for some time.
ReplyDeleteAt the Freak, Rhyner is pushing 80 and won't be an on air talent very long. And his crew are all in their 50s. I applaud him for trying to catch lighting in a bottle a second time but circumstances were ripe for a station like the Ticket in the 1990s. Today, people are not as invested in terrestrial radio and a young demo is less likely to try a new station full of "old men." If Dan and Jake were to move over they would likely do so with the understanding they would be back with Sirois, Danny and work drive time. Or reunite with Julie. Would people at the Freak be upset? Maybe, but they see the ratings and realize it's a business. I am not real sure Dan and Jake would help but they need to do something.