A home for those who love almost everything about The Ticket (1310 AM, 96.7 FM, Dallas-Fort Worth), and who would like to discuss -- respectfully and fondly -- their thoughts on how (and whether) to eliminate the "almost."
I had a vision of Dan and Jake proceeding in negotiations in a highly professional, thought-out, united-front, expertly-advised, PowerPoint-produced-by-TC kind of way, perhaps taking Cumulus by surprise with some kind of innovative, intellectual-property-sharing arrangement that deserved serious consideration and had lots of moving parts susceptible to negotiation.
Who knows what really went on -- the bogging in this clip was astounding (mulling over the spelling of "whet"?) -- but they came across as ad hoc, seat-of-pants, not professionally advised, with no strategy for getting what they wanted other than laughing and saying "no."
I like these guys a lot and, as mentioned, probably spent more time in The Zone than with any other show for the past year or so. But now I'm thinking (and not happy to do so): Ya know, Cumulus probably priced this team just about right for the market, whatever it was.
Which, from their present point of view -- unless they consciously decided not to use the opportunity of this video to disclose future plans ("maybe a podcast" doesn't qualify) -- is no identifiable market at all.
Cumulus thought balloon, seeing the lack of focus they seemed to be bringing to the table: "Ya know, I think we can do pretty well putting up Donnie+1 and some of our deep bench up against Ben & Skin, 'cause these guys aren't built to launch a media empire six months from now that will survive a paywall."
I felt really, really sad for Jake, I guy I have come to like quite a lot on the air, despite some of our differences. I think he's in for a rough patch. If I were Cumulus, I'd be getting out a sledge hammer and wedge and trying to get him back, and let Smilin' Dan (who I would also like to see back) "try something new."
Of course, this video may have been a feint -- maybe they've got a business plan and budgets and competitive strategy all worked out, media partners waiting to do deals, and the like -- but Jake's eyes tell me they are free, free falling.
There's some major inside baseball at The Ticket which informed Cumulus's negotiations here. This wasn't just dollars and cents. Corby stepped up and displayed great loyalty to people I believe he genuinely considered his friends, but something tells me his attitude may not have been shared up and down the broadcast day and the corporate org-chart. It sounds like Cumulus didn't try too hard to keep them, and local Ticket management itself wasn't too panicked about it. Dan's performance in this video may provide a clue.
I'm out of town the next few days -- maybe something will shake out of greater evidentiary weight than MTC rumors. I'll keep in touch, and watch the ad hominem crap, OK?
They’re going to the Freak. You pandered to P1s by announcing they didn’t sign with the Freak(I mean, that’s common sense with non competes right?) KTCK is Cumulus #1 property. Doing elementary research on iHeart shows they do x10 trading volume than Cumulus. iHeart can afford to pay them and play the long game, right? When the Musers retire, what happens to KTCK? The hosts and audience are aging out and Cumulus hasn’t embraced newer media.
At this point, if they aren’t headed to The Freak they’re in for a rude awakening. They can’t go it alone with what they offer. They need iheartradio money to compensate for the loss of Cumulus money.
800, I think you're exactly right. I've said the same thing a few times myself. I think Richie Whitt's info this time last year was correct. I also think their admittedly joking nonchalant attitude with Cumulus over the contracts spells out the whole thing. They were asking for $$$ and other things they knew Cumulus wouldn't give so they could walk away and know that the public would see it as a Big Corporate vs labor and them as heroes. Like they had no choice and Cumulus was to blame. It worked. After seeing the video even their saying no one was the bad guy kinda felt like either a bit of guilt on their part or to drive home the evil corporation vs the little guy story evern further. Like you said I think this has been one long play. It was a done deal a year ago. Jake's admitted on the Ticket how he feels guilt over things he's done in the past and even stuff today. That could explain why he acted the way he did in the video.
@835 pretty damn far. What has Cat done? Elevated his best friend into a host spot, moved Bob to drive time and elevated Jake to host. Jake being moved to T1 is the best move he made and i’m not sure he wanted to do it. The bench is shallow but with the blind loyalty a lot of P1s have, it will take a while for ratings to dip.
When the rumors originally came out, people took it kinda seriously, then the freaks ratings kinda sucked and I felt like everyone thought it prob wouldn’t happen with the great ratings at the ticket. But here we are
Been waiting to see how this eventually shook out before chiming in. Now we know.
If my names is either Shan or RJ I am concerned. If my name is KT, Jeff Cavanaugh, or Julie Dobbs I am unnerved to the point that I'm updating my resume, conceiving a Plan B, putting together tape, and networking my ass off.
I'm not in the entertainment/media industry much less the sub genre that is radio. So unlike others, I'm not going to act as if I know what the going rate of pay for even a successful midday show is. I will, however, say that either they have something else in place along the traditional path (Freak or FAN) or the plan is to go the podcast/multiplatform route. Those are the options I believe most of us think they'll opt for. Nothing controversial there.
Which path is more likely? I'm not sure if their "exit interview/statement" actually gave us any indication.
So let's get to it.
Not sure what to make of the video. No, that's a lie. I do, but it's not positive. Before I go into it, understand that all I or any of us can go on is by what we see and hear. My views arise from just that. So that's my pre-say.
First off, the only thing done smartly in the vid was them going out of their way to say Cumulus, no one at Cumulus, Ticket management, and no one at The Ticket are the bad guys. That was really smart on their part. It might save at least one of their tuckuses. More on that below. Second, "damn it, Dan, you make a damn joke out everything." He does. But you always got the sense (partly because he shows it from time to time) that there's a genuine point behind the joke. But this was a bad optic. Not just bad, but irritating. To the point where I'm thinking if this is Daily Dan without supervision (podcast), count me out. The other thing was his appearance. Dan's always been an open book of sorts. Including his looks. Going bald, shave your head and rarely wear a cap. Keep your face clean shaved. You look how you look. No goatee, no plugs, no Botox, no perma-3-day-scruff. Now he's wearing a ball cap pulled low, thick rimmed glasses, and a beard. You can't see his face. Hell, if I saw him on the street, I wouldn't have known it was Dan. Sometimes stuff like this means something. It could be seen to evince a closed off-ness, a hiding if you will. Might mean nothing. Then again it could mean a lot. Third, Jake looked like someone who's just figured things out, the reality of Reality is hitting home, and he's doing his best to hold it together in public. When I say just figured it out, I mean as in during the actual taping of the vid. He's got that deer in the headlights look. Never have I seen or heard him sound so unsure of himself. Then there's the not so aside aside about their negotiations. True, half true, or false, it doesn't matter (that Jake brought it up and the way he did tells me it's true), it says so much and none of it good. Frankly, it makes one wonder if they entered into negotations in good faith. That, of course, is another discussion entirely. One that won't need to be discussed if they turn up at either The Freak or The FAN in a couple of weeks or months. If they go to either, we'll know they had no intention of re-upping. And that too is another discussion. Let's see how things unfold before going down that bumpy road.
The comment that sticks in my brain is one from Rhyner. When a lower tier asked him how to get a good paycheck out of the business he asked if they were willing to go somewhere else. I don't think we're going to know anything conclusively for a while. The lawyers won't let any open talk happen until all their power to constrain the participants is done.
Yeah, this. Which is why for all the talk of Mino/Monty/Seabass/dick hicks, etc, I’ve got to believe Cumulus has talent in other markets that might be ready for the big time. Not to mention other companies. I would think if you post job opening for 3 seats at one if the dominant sports radio brands in the US, the line firms to the left for applicants. And that line is really fucking long. C
Why is anyone sure they'd be a rousing success at TF or F? I guess you literally can't do worse at TF. But that won't necessarily mean real success. Musers up against what I heard from Dan today? Shit, man, Musers forever and it's not even close.
I used to work at the mothership, still talk to some of my former coworkers up there. With the caveat of this is what I’m told ( Surly- a mea Culpa on the 7/3 vacation mix up, that’s what they were told, and do what I shared here) They were at an impasse. THZ wanted something -IP rights, their own monetization stream- that Cumulus wouldn’t give up on. This wasn’t about money. The Corby bit on Tuesday was a Hail Mary. Dan did call Corby, but neither side would budge. My sources think it’s possible that the IP issue is a red herring, knowing that Cumulus would never agree to it, THZ refused to back down causing the split, giving them the option of the Fan, The Freak, or podcast/twitch channels.
And my own thoughts- have we ever seen a show go out in top- usually people leave for a better daypart, a different market, better pay, etc. we’re watching a show that’s coming off 6 months at the top of the ratings, and they’re just walking away. I’ve just never seen it.
One other note, if this isn’t pay based, and they went out of their way in the video to play down conflict with Cumulus, I’m really curious for details on what exactly the IP or “competing digital interests” are or were. What did THZ want so badly that Cumulus was so unwilling to give, and why aren’t Dan and Jake more upset over not getting it? It’s almost like they knew they were overreaching, weren’t expecting to get it, and were fine walking away. Which makes me think the podcast/twitch/YouTube path might be their plan. C
In agreement that it seems like a strange and ill advised move unless they already have another deal in place. Best of luck to them, wherever they go, whatever they do. I'm jazzed about how Cat's going to fill out the lineup. Sea Bass seems like a good guy and he has gotten better over the years, but I hope he and Donnie aren't going to be the new 12-3 or 10-12 or 10-3 show. I'd like to see Donnie paired with one or two of the young guns. If anything let Sea Bass and an up and comer do 10-12. I could live with that. Onward and upward, next man up.
The number of not so hidden references from TF twitter accounts today hinting that this has been the plan all along is either the dumbest fucking thing that will only be used as evidence to get people sued, or trolling on an almost savant-like level.
If they aren’t going to the freak, which I assume they are at this point, I don’t get their plot. Even if they’re going to the freak, I still struggle to understand. Did bob want podcasting revenue? Did junior? Did Corby? Donovan? We’re they paid like crap? No. I think they wanted a reason to get out. Not sure exactly why yet. Ego, freak am drive, idk
Bingo, C. Something doesn't smell right here. The whole attitude is way too nonchalant. Almost smiling like a Cheshire cat, as if they can't believe they're getting away with it. Whatever it is. I firmly believe they went into this with no intention of inking a deal. Leads me to think we'll see them on TF ASAP. If they did this with a view to podcasting/YouTube/et al., I'm not sure what to say other than they've taken horrible counsel and/or are delusional.
Rhyner launching with TF wasn’t a long term play for him and he’s never indicated otherwise. I think this was set up masterfully to get D&J into a drive time slot. They’ve given their drive time shows 2 books to see where they’re trending. I just don’t think it makes sense to put Dan and Jake into morning drive time right now and I think they’d move the needle in a 3-7 spot. That would of course displace some people but again, I’m not 100% sure the shows and their time slots at the Freak were set in concrete to begin with. We need a Freak insider.
@9:32 Dan and Jake have been bitten by the bit coin mentality of the so-called Gig Economy. It's not real. I wish someone would've clearly explained this to them. Oh well. Go Monty, Go!
@835 Both Rhyner and Greggo said THEY asked Cat to make Corby a 3rd host on THL. Did you know Corby had become a 3rd host prior to Greggo's firing? Seems not. How do you know what Cat was thinking when he AND Dan Bennett made the decision to make Jake a host? Why would they make a move they didn't want to make? Please read what you write before posting the comment. It might save you from looking like such a tool.
I apologize, Pman, for going at this person, but c'mon, that crap is egregious, blinkered, and gratuitous.
@9:42, man, I don't think you're wrong. And I'm wondering if Jake has or is realizing this too and thinking, "uh oh, what did I do?" The vibe he was giving in that video.... man.
I have to admit a Freak move has some circumstantial evidence for it.
But what I saw today doesn't give me confidence that there's a really well thought-out long-term iHeart play there.
If you were an iHeart executive and you were shown this video as being the two guys who were going to boost The Freak in the short run and be the anchors for some digital play in the long run, how would you react?
They going to fire founders Ben & Skin? Sure, maybe. Not like they haven't been fired before. Then you've got a non-drive boost. Well, better than nothing.
No? You're going to put abrasive, human-bog Dan McDowell against Those Who Muse So Gently in the Morning? And assume a very substantial -- not 100%, but very substantial -- risk that you will be mortified by the result? Ah, but the Musers, surely they'll retire soon and then we'll kick nates! But will the Musers move one muscle to retire if there were the slightest hint, however circumstantial, that Dan and Jake bullied them out?
This whole thing feels a whole lot more uncalculated, more random, than some of us are thinking.
As Charley said in "Death of a Salesman, it seems like these two guys are "way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine."
Told all y'all the 3rd day after TF went live that they were all full of it and that the whole station origin narrative was a bunch o bullsh and that Rhyner, Sirois, Julie, and later Danny had been playing a game of two face for months and months. If ya been peeking at Freak Twitter you'll see what I mean. The Fallout Shelter Shill was fuckin' a right all along. Give him his fuckin' a due. Know ya boys too have been playing a long game of two face. Masterfully so I might add. Anyone wanna bet me that co conspirator Julie stays on for the new morning show? Didn't think so.
Plainsman makes an excellent point. The very fact they made the video leans toward this being, as you put it, "uncalculated." I'll add to it, not very well thought through. Then again, no one at iHeart seems to take issue with the level of unprofessionalism many of The Freak hosts put on display both on air and via social media. So maybe they don't care and are merely happy to be bringing aboard an am drive show that will, at least for a bit, give them respectable numbers.
Regardless of it all, what a turn of events. No one could've seen this coming.
OK, if they do end up at The Freak then we can't say we weren't warned.
Other option is they've been talking with Cash and TC and really believe in and have a plan for going digital. Doesn't seem completely unreasonable to me giving that IJB makes $5k/mo with very minimal effort and less talent.
It's difficult to imagine DnJ's lawyers saying, "walk away, you can do better elsewhere." These jobs on the whole don't exist. Not ones on stations in top 5 markets that are award winning, ratings killing, and hand over fist money earning. They HAVE to have something lined up with TF, F, or elsewhere. Other than that, for all the talk of Jake's smarts and Dan's radio industry knowledge, they're just a couple of ding dongs who grossly overvalued their worth. But I don't believe that for a second.
^^^^^You'd be surprised how people in media and entertainment (same thing) are in person compared to how they portray themselves on air. Yes, they very well could be ding dongs. I know firsthand.
To 9:53's points I will say that I did find it strange that after Julie quit, THZ would have her on or have dedicated segments about her on a weekly basis. That is, until suddenly they didn't. Next thing you know, The Freak, and Julie's position there, was announced.
I'll admit there's a lot of coincidences and circumstantial evidence here when you begin to go back to the day it was announced Bob was going to The Hardline and Dan and Jake were being paired and run through the sudden resignations, the seemingly from out of nowhere announcement of The Freak, to this, a causal chain of sorts can be drawn. If you truly want to get nutty, trace it back to Rhyner's (again, seemingly from out of nowhere) retirement.
I can hear the Coast to Coast AM theme playing right now.
I wonder if KT and Cavanaugh as a morning show was always intended to be temporary while Dan and Jake were courted, and if they’re gonna move to evenings (post-Downbeat) when D&J come aboard. I believe TF airs some syndicated show now when TDB ends.
I guess my confusion about the freak move is…it hasn’t done well. If the hangzone was interested in the freak from the get go, I get it, new ticket style station that they could be prime time in. But as time moved on…the freak became a punching bag. I would think Dan and Jake would look at it and think it’s not going well, let’s back track.
825: Expiration of a contract for employment doesn't void the separate covenant not to compete unless the contract so provides. Unlikely that it does so in this case, so I'm operating on the assumption that the noncompete is in effect.
It was interesting. Jake seemed a little unsure as to whether they'd really resigned, although eventually said that he thought they did. Whatever communication they made, Dan Bennett didn't seem confused about its import.
IJB might make 5k per mo. Btw, how do so many of you know what IJB earns? Do they announce it? Lets say they do. They have no overhead. Or if they do, it's miniscule. That won't be the case with a 5 day per wk, hrs long pod/Twitch/YT stream. There's highend, very expensive hardware that must be upgraded regularly, payroll (and are they going to provide a living wage and insurance and vacation and the rest for each employee?), there's the pay to play aspect of YT alone, the constant hustle for advertisers and sponsors (time and resources spent), the hustle to monetize every aspect of each platform, and I can go on and on within each of these aforementioned items, plus add many more onto the list. Content creation, even on a low level, is a very stressful, damn near 27/7/365 endeavor. Even if, say, Cash Sirois is going to invest in HZ, Inc., he's neither iHeart nor Cuban. His pockets might be deep, might be, but they aren't Deep. Besides, all the money in the world won't guarantee success in this field. They are only a known commodity in this area and by a particular, specific demo. They are not Joe Rogan. They aren't even the scummy Alex Jones. What they will be, especially if they go on cameral, is a boomer (Jake. Yes, Jake) and some ancient guy who barely seems alive (Dan). It's brutal out there. they have no expertise in anything. And what interests them are things others find interesting, and nothing they engage in on their own. So any idea of being successful like one of the history or true crime pods is farcical. If this is the path forward, this is going to be more ill conceived than even The Freak.
I seem to be in the minorty, but I don't see what the big deal is about losing The Hang Zone. It was OK. Jake's good at talking Cowboys and Mavs. His Kemp Spin segments are always a fun ride, as well. Dan has his moments too. All the hand wringing over a 3 hour midday show seems so much of an out of whack bang to buck thing. I can understand a little bit better if we're talking about BaD Radio. That show had real moments of magic. Same with the OG Hardline. When Greggo was fired I totally understood the uproar. I was in a snit myself over it. It goes without saying, The Musers' demise would be and will be monumental. Sorry, I don't get this insane outpouring over a show that had its moments but was mostly OK. The intro was pretty cool though.
In less than 10 months there will be a swath of listeners who have to be told what THZ was. They'll hear clips of Dan and Jake posted on reddit by fanboys. They'll click on them and say, 'what's so great about this? guess you had to be there.' In less than 2 years, there will be almost as many listeners who have no idea THZ ever existed than those who remember but have to be reminded it existed to remember. Its called the way it is.
Carry out the plan of the day. Stay hard. Keep Jammin'. And we'll see ya.
And when the Musers retire in 3 years as a show there will be memories of them scattered on Youtube that us ole timers will go back and watch and tell people how cool the ticket was. Yes 11:14 this will also happen to The Ticket at some point. Yours and many on this board mistake is to assume that things will carry on as is in perpetuity. If TF builds some momentum with a huge catch like Dan and Jake the inflection point of momentum can build rapidly
Let’s get this straight. Sirois, Danny, and rhyner all had social media fans saying they’re their leaders and they’d follow them. So far, that amount of people has turned out to be not that many. I feel like the hangzone could be in a similar position. The hardcore p1 likes them because they listen all day. Will the hardcore p1 chose hangzone over musers if they’re freak am? Or will the guy that listens to and from work (majority of listeners) not notice a difference?
If THZ is your peak Ticket listening experience, good on ya. I'll take all the years of Gordo's stuff, Bigfoot basketball, Musers' live ad spots with Jub and Gordo, and all those nearly 30 years of it and OG Hardline and listening to BaD gel into something special, The Rant, all the OG remotes and Diamondtalk remotes with OGW and Greggo, and I can go on and on. That's my peak Ticket. You were around for all that stuff too, Surly. If you don't mind me asking, is THZ your peak Ticket experience?
Placing that aside.
The many you speak of, Surly, I suspect are, as 1230am points out, a very loud minority. Sirois and TF alone attest to this. I'll go out on a short limb and say 96-98% of Ticket listeners do not engage with TT reddit fan page, MTC, or any other platform. That is, the extremely vocal minority. The bulkhead of listeners listen to the station as a whole, and when they're able -- driving to and from work, perhaps on break, at lunch, and depending on the job, throughout the day. The key is they listen to TT. Favorite shows and/or hosts and/or segments, of course. But they're loyal to the brand first and foremost. TF, and the only thing that can be said of it to this point is that it has been thus far a total failure on every level, proves this out each and every book. Yes, even the two (lastest included) that show improvement attest to this fact when taken in context.
Yes, Surly, you can listen whenever you want. But when you list out a possible line up hour by hour then in that same comment state whom you'll be listening to during those hours, well, forgive me for not taking the delay and your listening modus into consideration.
"When the remaining ticket hosts come to terms that they’ve been played all this time it might get a little spicy."
This.
Remember what I said two threads ago. Loyalties will be tested. Those who thought of others like brothers in arms will come to realize it was all a sham. Perceptions of heroes and villains alike will drastically change. This will be a radio war of the likes that has not been seen in any part of this country since the late 70s - early 80s. One day, a far piece down the road, the real story of will come out. Oh me, oh my.
I guess my thing is that it floors me that people are willing to walk away from careers like that and how so many others seem to egg them on, think nothing of it, say they'd do the same, say it's what they should do, and what have you not when our nations's food banks are running low because so many people who never before could conceive of having to turn to one now do. I'm not virtue signalling. It's just I look around the world right now and our country in particular and find it fascinating and repulsive that so many of us argue for living wages and fair pay and equality for those who live amazingly cushy lives, and yet people are starving. Just enjoy the respite we get from the grind on offer by stations like The Ticket and personalities like Dan and Jake. But I ask you to have some perspective.
All those things you list about the greatness of the ticket over the years—let me guess—you’re outside of the target demo now. You’re not thinking about the fact that there are a large number of loyal listeners who have no idea about most of those things. They’re 25-40 years old and know how out of touch the Musers are. And all they know of Greg is either in drops or the fact that he’s a QAnon loon.
I wish they would have stayed. There's no doubt a lot of the magic of The Ticket is the mixing of the shows-- WTDS, PwF, afternoon Jub, etc etc etc. I hate that I'm losing that. I think The Freak is about the most idiotic name imaginable, and I have a strong distaste for Mike R. Can't stand Ben & Skin. Don't like Danny.
I also find myself skipping more and more Musers and Hardline segments.
But I'll tune in for every minute of Dan & Jake because they entertain me more than any other show. I'll miss Ham and Blake a lot--assuming they're staying at the Ticket.
Another question to consider--what happens to The Downbeat when Mike R leaves? He was already prepping his exit months ago. Will he be around in 6-12 months?
"sirois opened a random sports jersey today on the downbeat. it was an old Browns jersey, so Dingu and Sirois were disappointed. Dingu said “maybe we should just hold that for a little bit”, implying that in 6 months he could give it to Dan."
"Remember what I said two threads ago. Loyalties will be tested. Those who thought of others like brothers in arms will come to realize it was all a sham. Perceptions of heroes and villains alike will drastically change. This will be a radio war of the likes that has not been seen in any part of this country since the late 70s - early 80s. One day, a far piece down the road, the real story of will come out. Oh me, oh my."
nailed it.
"they promised us they weren't gonna come back and compete against us"
I have some very mixed feelings about this. Dan's radio persona (I don't know what he's like in real life) had begun to wear on me to the point I almost never listen to THZ anymore. I generally listen to the first segment and usually, Dan annoys me so I turn it off. Yet I am sad they left. Whatever replaces them might be something I like better. I don't know if they made the right decision but I'm not in any real position to judge.
I do wonder how much Bob's elevation to drive time did lead to this. It might be a long time coming but maybe the predictions that Rhyner leaving was the end will prove correct in that it was the beginning of the End.
That was a fascinating piece of radio just now. I’d become convinced that D&J were Freak/Fan bound the last few days. But that 8:15 seggy? Unless both Dan and Jake are some straight up sociopaths willing to burn two decade long relationships…it sure sounds like that at least initially, they are going to strike out on their own path outside of terrestrial radio
They guilted Dan into staying ten years ago and he wasn't going to cave again. Good luck to them if they're going independent, they're going to need it.
There is very little else they could say, but the whole eff the haters vibe of that turned me off. THZ was the only show I'd been listening to consistently for the last year, and nothing in that segment changed my mind.
Eh, I don’t begrudge the guys clapping back at the haters/critics. You know what builds up in “normal” times, but coupled with record ratings and the Freak launching and failing, that was a well deserved bat flip, especially from the commander
Very curious what the new lineup will look like. Love me some WiP,, & i would guess they'd have a decent shot at one of these shifts. But man I've really enjoyed Mino with the HL. 1 or 2 to pair with Donnie...maybe DJ? Blake? How about Sam Gannon? Going to get interesting
The chalk would be Donnie & Sean and WIP in the 10-3 block. I wonder if all the tumult might work against a WIP promotion. Mino stays as THL producer so all the voices remain stable there. I think DJ has a really decent shot of getting elevated to a cohost spot. If they go outside the current bench, I think their first call is to Cowlishaw
What a powerful 8:15 segment. The most peak behind the curtain I've personally ever heard. If Dan and Jake really did decide to try something else, and they are not going to another station to compete...they made a terrible, horrible decision. I have a pit in my stomach for them. Dan does seem content on his decision, but I feel like Jake may have been coerced. If I were him I would be calling Cumulus immediately and working out a deal to stay.
1. Dan and Jake have a long road ahead. I will miss Dan and Jake. They were a show that I really grew to love and found them to be good talking about lots of topics, sports or otherwise.
2. Dan was on Rhyner’s podcast a while back and the topic of the nurturing biosphere of the ticket came up. Both have experiences outside of the ticket and with different overlords. I wonder if Cumulous is really that different than others. I guess so.
3. The disdain for management that bled on to the air seems to have been real and not just for played up for radio. Jub made it sound like some of their reasons for leaving go back years. A few complaints I heard over the last couple years include The furlough of Julie, the prior negotiations (Jake), the constant shuffling of their board ops (Mino).
4. Bob was clearly broken up. I had no idea how much he cared for the mid day guys. Made me sad.
5. Corby and Jub seemed to not get outside employment. From an outsiders perspective, it is hard to squint and see a better alternative for them. But I do wonder if there is a divide in how the drive time and mid days view the ticket management.
When you work for a big company and have little to no understanding of business. You will either be blindly loyal or a have a lot of mistrust. Dan and Jake were definitely the later and Corby/Jub probably the former.
Re 853a and 857a. One of the issues I have with “people”, (not y’all just commenters in general) is the inability to mesh the “they suck” comments with the record ratings. Ok, I understand that everyone is entitled to their opinion, but do they just write off #1 ratings as “all thise opinions suck”. Is there no cognitive dissonance with those people, no effort to understand why others might find it appealing. People may not like the Musers, but they have a 17 share in demo. Clearly someone finds them appealing. C
IMO the Musers roundtable came across very defensive with respect to George and Craig. They were laying down the gauntlet of wishing Dan and Jake well, if and only if they don't go onto compete with The Ticket. They could have been more like Bob in letting some sad emotion show while saying they will carry on. There is a good way of handling and I don't think that was it.
I have so many thoughts after listening to the combined Musers/Hardline discussion about the Hang Zone leaving. If we are to take Dan and Jake at their word, then they will not be joining The Fan or The Freak but will be starting their own podcast. I bet they also will fully invest into their Twitch stream and maximize their YouTube output as well. They can definitely make some money with these non-terrestrial radio platforms, via Patreon and other subscriptions. And they won’t have Cumulus to answer to and will be their own boss. I get the appeal.
What I do not understand is that Jake worked for years to become a host. Started out as an intern in the Greggo days just to show how long it has been. But then when he became a host, he never seemed happy (and I get it Surly, he has depression and anxiety but is taking medication for it as a responsible adult, so I am going to treat him like an adult). He obviously felt he wasn’t being compensated fairly as evidenced by last year’s mini-holdout and the events of this month. All that being said, I am going to assume that Jake was making low six figures with Dan making mid six figures. Very nice salaries for working conservatively 25 hours a week (actual airtime and prep).
So Jake is going to leave a really great salary behind, leave his close friends/co-workers, leave a great job that he strived to get for years talking SPORTS – to start his own podcast/Twitch channel? Makes zero sense to me. In their goodbye video on You Tube, Jake came across as angry at Cumulus even though they enabled him to have a dream job.
I like Jake a lot. He is super smart, and I align with much of what he believes in. That being said, this move strikes me as highly juvenile. He never seemed to appreciate the job and acted like it was a burden at times, even though he had publicly pined for it for years. I hope Dan and Jake’s next venture works out and I will follow it because I am a fan of theirs but man, they are making a big mistake.
Not sure why I caught some shots from C there, not much of what I posted seemed to relate to what you wrote? I don't listen to Musers consistently and I really dislike Bob & Corby, but I also know my narrow preferences don't make an iota of difference in the grand scheme of things.
Not sure which anon you are, so I’ll clarify- one of y’all said the bat flip was justified. I agree with that, my issue is the people who spout this station sucks, while ignoring white hot ratings. Absent the ratings, we have no common way to measure how the station is doing.heck, look at any social media commentary section and it often alternates X sucks X is great X can suck it I like x It doesn’t matter who, there are lovers and haters. With ratings we can look at it and say “The speakeasy is a hard listen, and here’s their ratings around 30th to back me up”. I’m just saying it’s harder to reconcile “The Musers Suck, here’s evidence putting them as the most popular morning show in the market as evidence of that”. C
So, Jake waited all these years “for a ticket host to die”. And he bails after a few years to host a podcast/videocast of some sort. What an absolute joke.
What if you spend years and years grinding and grinding for something you've always thought was your dream...you finally achieve it...and realize it just doesn't give you the feeling that you thought it would. And then that you have to pay to maintain a website that promotes and enhances the station. That you have to pay for your own fucking audio cables and headsets.
I like most P1s I assume are very sad. End of an era for sure but I don't get the sentiment from the majority of the commenters that somehow Dan and Jake are indentured servants to Cumulus and any deviation from lifetime commitment is tantamount to a major betrayal of trust. I don't know how successful they will ultimately be but the risk averse perspective of most here wreaks of selfishness as in how dare they try to better themselves and not continue to entertain us in the way we have become accustomed to. Look around folks, not all ventures work but Simmons left the comfort of ESPN to start his own empire. For the 90 percent of people that leave comfort and fall on their faces there are the 10 percent or so that wildly succeed. I will give Dan and Jake the benefit of the doubt that they have a solid plan before I cry that they have committed the ultimate crime by leaving.
Simmons had a national audience that he knew would be there. No one outside of DFW know who Dan and Jake are. Hell, there are sports radio listeners in DFW that don’t know who Dan and Jake are.
I suppose hearing the recordings of the negotiations would help.
I'll quote jasonDFW from twitter here:
"I know when I want to leave my job to go do something else I enter into painfully protracted contract negotiations, work an extra week unpaid, continue to negotiate after my employer forces me to resign, and then leave a tearful goodbye. It's much easier than just quitting."
So it's OK to assume negotiations were "painfully protracted" and that they were unpaid for their labor, but assuming that Cumulus negotiated in good faith and offered a very reasonable package is, what, boot licking? Come on.
I can only hope they didn’t solely leave to do a podcast…if so, they are morons. They are not national follows such as Bill Simmons. The only logical thing would be to leave for another station who clearly would value them more ($$$) than Cumulus while allowing for a side hustle podcast…such as iHeart.
Yeah Jake grinder to get his host gig...but he & Dan are going to have to grind tenfold in order to just make the same amount of money they did at The Ticket, not to mention benefits, etc.
Jake might have the motivation for that, but does Dan once the initial adrenaline wears off? He's not a spring chicken.
I am not talking going national. Let's not get caught in linear thinking here. All they would need to do is carry over a decent percentage of their DFW area audience (several hundred thousand) to a subscription type multi media platform and they will make more money. Lets say they get 10 percent of their audience and conservatively estimate that to be 30,000 people who are willing to each pay a paltry 5 dollars a month. That would yield 150k a month in revenue not counting any side endorsements they could get. You can easily see a world where they grow a DFW area revenue stream into 1.5 to 2 million per year to be split between D & J plus some amount to support staff. I could envision them making 500 to 700k per year while doing it on their own terms. Best wishes D & J
Can you point me to another DFW podcast that has 30k subscribers? And radio audience constantly churns. Check out Sirius’s churn rate. Even if they could get 30k, how do they attract new listeners to replace the departed? Ben was a sales guy before he went on air. Are Dan or Jake going to negotiate those side endorsements, bill them, collect, keep the books, etc. now you’ve added some sort of sales guy, and a bookkeeper/accountant type to your expenses. And who’s going to keep the equipment working? Add a contract engineer to those expenses. And cumulus has back equipment and other studios. If their stuff goes down, even for a day, they have issues. And most importantly; will 30k people pay for a version of what they can get for free on at least 2 spots on the dial? I’m not saying Dan and Jake were popular because of the Ticket, but a rising tide lifts all boats. How many of those listeners popping their car tray on the steering wheel at lunch times were listening because their radio hadn’t moved from the Morning muser commute? So how many of those listeners will just leave on 1310 with the (WIP?/elf? /the 5 hour Donnie show?/hang zone replacement? ) I think guesses of what they’ll get are just that guesses. C
I don’t feel too bad for Bob. Him jumping ship started this whole ball rolling. Donnie Doo needs the right partner and Sean Bass ain’t it. The brass surely can see that. 10-3 is gonna be a barren wasteland. Dan should tell us who line 4 guy is.
The Musers, Bob, and Corby addressed the situation this morning around 8:30. They didn't really break and new news but expressed their friendship over the years and wished them well. Bob got very emotional about it. They also acknowledged the up-and-coming JV and said they looked forward to working with whoever the replacements were. They also mentioned that D&J said they would not directly challenge them in the market. We shall see there. Basically, it was "That's the way radio goes."
1. The media is consolidating, and many high profile people are being let go from well known established companies. There's more competition for fewer jobs.
2. Their market value might be X based on what they've done, but in this economy it might be Y, and they won't get X anywhere because that job doesn't exist anymore.
3. Anything outside of KTCK for them will likely be a challenge. They were buoyed by the other shows on the station, and they by themselves won't be able to carry a station.
4. I don't see how both of them don't come away making less money. For Dan that might not be a big deal as he's been a host for more than 20 years in a major market, and he's considerably closer to traditional retirement age than Jake is. Jake still needs a big job to maintain his current lifestyle.
5. As much as it might stink for Jake his timing in this profession just stinks. If he follows this exact career path 20 years ago he's golden. But now he's likely going to have to take a significant pay cut and go back to doing things he thinks he might be above at this point in his career.
6. I think KTCK is just fine in letting the JV team plus Donnie have whatever becomes of 10-3. Donnie can help carry half of that, and some lower level people who are just happy to be there can host at a relative discount while they build a resume and the Ticket doesn't shed listeners.
Personally I don't think Dan and Jake are on their way to find Bill Simmons type of success in the independent broadcasting world. They don't have a national audience to draw from, and Ticket listeners are notoriously loyal. Sure some people may follow them, but as the Freak is finding out just because they have Ticket affiliations, it won't bring them a Ticket audience.
And one last thing-Dan might take an opportunity elsewhere leaving Jake all alone. Dan has a hefty resume that might open doors somewhere. Unfortunately I think Jake will be left hoping for scraps in another market or without longterm guarantees on the Freak or the Fan. What the Ticket created was completely abnormal in radio. This doesn't exist elsewhere. Jake should probably just take the best thing he can find either at the Ticket at a reduced rate or as a host on the other local stations. The good times are over.
Rhyner tweeted a pic of summer bash with a small crowd for the time wasters and a comment like “that’s it?”. He deleted if after he said a ticket staffers wife called him out on it. Interesting, didn’t say on air persons wife, but staffer makes me think it was someone not on air. He was getting hammered for it because it was mid June, ball sweat hot, and the ticket can draw crowds elsewhere, while the Freak struggles with ratings, much less drawing a huge crowd to see a bad -but funny- band do schtick. C
I'm at the airport with limited resources. Will need to keep this shorter than my usual Gone With the Wind length.
(1) No one knows anything. I mean no one. Not us, not guys at The Ticket, and, my surmise, not really Smilin' Dan and Jake.
(2) The process was weird, baffling. Circumstances seem to support those here who say they never intended to stay. It was apparently not take-it-or-leave it on Cumulus's part, but have no info on whether they tried to accommodate "we want digital participation/independent podcast" in any way, although I get hints that maybe it did.
(3) Negotiations continued until late in the process, right up until they walked.
As much as I want these guys to stay (want them back, I guess we have to say): Smilin' Dan is a walking grievance. He's the "Curb" of Dallas radio. I'm sure that's why many of the people who love him, love him. Jake never struck me as a guy subject to Svengali-esque infuence, but I have to wonder if Smilin' Dan's cynicsm and chafing under the Man's real or imagined mistreatment The Man eventually rubbed off on him. Will that ethos play on The Freak?
To his eventual regret.
Or, judging from his heartbreaking performance on the "we gone' video, not so eventual.
If they go to The Freak and don't compete with the Musers, then it's back to middays. Unless this is accompanied by some staggering deal that Cumulus couldn't swallow -- that would just be sad.
I'm telling you, with Dan and Jake expecting to be rah-rah for The Freak, and after six months of radio silence, those guys will not sound the same to you the next time you hear them. Stuck between two known stiff shows, and not a thing they can do about it. They may be able to repair their brand, but it will be as a different-sounding show. Any podcast -- Smilin' Dan's going to do MORE work than he does now? -- won't fix it.
I'm puzzled why so many people seem to be buying the narrative that DaJ are leaving to "go it alone" on the podcast/digital route, when going to the Freak makes so much more sense.
The announcement video is prime evidence of this. If they were committed to building an audience and doing their own thing, I GUARANTEE you that video would have been entirely designed to increase interest, state intentions and capture subscribers. This was probably the biggest guaranteed audience they will ever be able to count on ... and they barely even hinted at doing a podcast, or even having a clear direction at all. Dan said something like, "you know, if there was a podcast," and Jake corrected him with, "oh, there will definitely be a podcast."
This is not the way to launch a new vehicle. This is the way to try to cloud your intentions and muddy the waters because it's not in your interest, for many reasons, for the public to know what you're doing next ...
Probably because what the Ticket sales staff is being told, so what is leaking out to clients /listeners is that the sticking point , like the Bennett email said, is “competing digital assets”. I’m told they wanted to have their own podcast with their own revenue stream and their own marketing ability outside the Cumulus umbrella. Multiple issues- as the troll reminds us Jake does Trajan investment spots. With outside marketing, Jake could do a podcast endorsement for Merrill Lynch, Edward Jones, etc, and compete with the terrestrial sponsors. Why would Cumulus want to allow their side gig to compete with their main gig?
Wow, imagine the carnage if they actually went up against The Musers. They gotta be smarter than that. That would be Jake vs Mike in Duncanville and Jake wouldn’t be on the good side of this one.
@12:56 it would be a meat grinder. That might be why TSE is on the Freak in AM drive instead of a legitimately competitive show. Until the Musers retire the 25-54 demographic belongs to them. Putting some version of THZ in AM drive is an expensive waste, unless both Dan and Jake are willing to take a massive paycut to make it worth another station's time. That also begs the question-why not just stay at the Mothership making a similar wage in a comfortable environment? There's no real good option for Dan and Jake in this market IMO.
As long as they’re allowed to quit before they get fired. They gotta keep that track record intact. (And really never being fired, and 6 stations in 14 years, just means that you’ve always been so “mid” that you’ve never been so good to be locked into a long term deal, and never so bad to get fired before you saw it coming and quit. For radio professionals, that’s not the flex that Ben, skin, or their supporters think it is.
I've always thought putting Dan and Jake together brought out the worst in each other in regards to grievances, be it with the man, the system, anything really. This looks to be the culmination of that.
I went back and relistened to the family meeting segment and they all (outside of Bob) came off even worse than on first listen. Really, really bad look.
Disagree completely Surly. They are tired of their supposed longtime friends and colleagues trying to pronounce them dead and laughing at anything that could be perceived as bad at TT. Probably a lot of confusion at Dan and Jake's motives as well. After the Sirois, Mike, and Danny exits they may be rightfully skeptical that D&J are being completely honest with them. Especially when it appears they never had any real intentions of staying.
I agree. I think the Musers suspect that they are being lied to, again. I think they fully expect that they will be competing head to head with them the day the noncompete expires. I really don't blame the Musers for not exhibiting Sturm's level of emotion.
And if every station in the market and all the ad agencies in town and nationwide subscribed to “Poor The Legends radio rankings and ratings”, your opinion might be more valid. But they don’t. They subscribe to Neilsen ratings and those ratings show those shows doing head and shoulders better than they were a year ago or 3 years ago. This is exactly what I mentioned in another comment. It’s an opinion that they’re better or worse than they were 3 years ago. But there’s no way to quantify that. And the one way we do have to quantify radio popularity, they’re doing better than ever. In fact, BEST ever. C
We only have the current employees of the ticket telling us that D&J said they didn't want to compete with them. I don't think that all four of the guys would lie but it would set D&J up as the bad guys if they do go elsewhere, which might keep P1's from following them. I don't think anyone involved is being totally honest, especially not with us.
So half the people listening to it see 2 ladies faces. And the other half see a vase. I think The musers are the most detached from the rest of the staff. They only interacted with Norm and D regularly, so don’t have the same emotional involvement as Corby, and certainly not Bob level. He’s got 20 years with Dan and what 15 with Jake in some role? I can see why it Bob harder. And what I took away from that last part is a paraphrase of don henley- “I will not go quietly”. People are saying this is the end of the ticket, the ticket is dead to them, etc. what I heard was musers and hardline both saying they’re fighting for what they’ve done and where they’ve gotten to and aren’t about to give up. And they kinda have a point. They have their best ratings EVER and yet the loss of a midday show, a show together just 3 years, is a mortal wound. Sorry, I don’t see it that way. C
PTL, let's wait until full-time announcements are made before judging the lineup. This morning, Craig said there would be "three new hosts" announced soon.
I personally do not understand the backlash from this mornings Musers/Hardline segment. The message from Jub is exactly what I, an incredibly loyal, devoted Ticket P1 needed to hear. I was concerned that a departure such as THZ could cause some doubt or uncertainty among the group which it seems is clearly and understandably the case with a few or them. It was awesome to hear the passion from Jub and to reassure to us loyal P1’s that they aren’t going anywhere. And although a setback they will continue their dominance as the best radio station that’s ever existed. THZ has been admittedly my second favorite show. I’ve loved those guys and am sad to see them go. I can’t honestly say that I will not check them out at whatever platform they end up on next. But their exit especially after their incredibly cringeworthy video that was posted yesterday has left a bad taste in my mouth about the two. The loyal Ticket P1, bunker mentality has me rooting against them now. And today’s message is exactly what I needed to hear. Way to rally the fucking troops Jub.
I’m a huge P1 as well, and I’m not calling the demise of the Ticket.
I was in college during 9/11. I recall the day afterward in class I said something like “The country just got sucker punched.”
A kid next to me shouted that America will never be sucker punched; he then melted into a red, white, and blue puddle . I transferred soon thereafter.
I guess I’m just saying, sometimes some of us like to articulate the situation first , before figuring out what might come next.
And while TF ratings are unimpressive, if D+J wind up there, you cannot say TF failed at causing chucks of destruction in the wall of the nuturing biosphere.
Omar Bradley in WW2- amateurs talk tactics, professionals talk logistics. In this case, amateurs talk opinions, professionals talk ratings. We can never quantify random internet opinions. But the ratings are generalized opinions quantified into understandable numbers, rankings, shares, etc. they may not be right, they may be flawed, etc. but they’re the one somewhat objective thing we have to measure popularity in the general public. So why 100% of the people here or on Reddit May think the musers suck, ratings give us the opportunity to say “you sure about that? 17% of the audience of men 25-54 listen to the musers”. As a wise man once said, opinions are like assholes, everyone has one and they usually stink. People are entitled to their opinion, but we need to realize that’s all they are. Opinions.
It looks like Pman is falling into the same category as a few others who strangely think Jake is being pulled into the cynical, fight-the-man orbit of Dan. Dan has negotiated multiple contracts since “Bob and Dan almost went to the Fan”, and as far as we know none of them were contentious. Dan left money on the table out of a desire to stay in TT bunker. Jake, on the other hand, tendered his resignation in his last round of negotiations, and he sounded genuinely ready to move on and a bit surprised/unhappy that he was still employed at TT. Nothing like Dan’s happiness to stay at the mothership a dozen years ago. Jake’s always been anti-the-man and has a dark and brooding malcontent. This seemed inevitable for him. I’m surprised Dan joined him.
JMO, but I truly don’t believe the existing Ticket bench can fill the spot(s) from 10-3. With the cash now saved from the departures of Norm, Dan and Jake, the station needs at least one big name. Dale? Doocy? Galloway?
But unfortunately based on the Cumulus sub $5 stock price, I’d guess we’ll get no big name, and my ears will go elsewhere after 10AM.
I just want to make sure I'm understanding some of you:
I've read countless comments here, on reddit, and on Twitter about how it's high time Monty, Mino, and others got their shot.... before they too, like Sirois, Danny, and Julie are FORCED to quit, magically get hosting positions at TF, and receive the Living Wage they have thus far been so cruelly denied. That it is THESE young men who are The Future of The Ticket and who they truly wish to listen to. That they're tired of these horrible OLDS and their stoopy stoopy dumb dumb opinions and outmoded ways of thinking.
Here is THE opportunity for Cat/Bennett to give these guys their shot.
Look who for the most part has been filling in. Let's call it what it is, look who is getting the try outs. Why it's those very same players.
Yet. Yet. All I now read --and I'm fairly certain by the same folks screaming about the unfair treatment of Monty, Mino, and the gang-- comment after comment claiming this is The End of The Ticket (TM pending). That there's no one who can fill the shoes of 54 year old Dan and sprinting toward middle age Jake (how OLD of them to age like that. The very nerve!), and how they will take their listening elsewhere, to wherever Old Dan and So Close to Being Old Jake go.
Critical thinking is a hella difficult thing for so many of you, it seems.
That anonymous 3:42 comment that says "600971" isn't getting any attention. I'm tuned in to TDB today because I am interested in their takes on this and maybe just feeling nostalgic. They are teasing a roundtable and announcement at 6:00 this evening. May be worth checking into.
Dale? In his 70s. Doocy? In his 60s. Galloway? , in his 80s. I too think they need more than Mino, Monty or Sea Bass, but can we get some people who aren’t on social security? C
Any grab from the outside will be ticket adjacent. Cowlishaw, Dick Hicks, Teddy E (longshot). How many calls from Ralph Strangis do you think Cat has let go to voicemail? 100? 200?
It was Sirois, DP. He just can't help himself. Don't take the bait, y'all. You'll tune in only to hear him welcome in all the new listeners. At that time they'll make some "non starter" announcement. He and TF are pathetic.
I would love to see WiP take the 10-12 slot and for Donnie and either Trahan or Gannon plus a 3rd taken from the JV to round out middays. I think that would be a strong lineup, and a lineup that promotes not only from within, but also would add much needed diversity.
Hard to see Joe T being able to do anything but 10-12. Guy has a lot on his plate with his day job. Just don’t get the Sam Gannon push. Different strokes I guess. Donovan + Sean or Donovan + Cowlishaw seem like destiny for one of the 10-3 slots
4:26-You are probably right but I may still tune in. I gave TDB a chance for a while early on when they first hit the air and didn't completely hate it but found it never really grabbed me so I bailed after a couple of weeks. Listening today and I can't tell the difference between Ben, Skin and KT's voices on the commercials.
WIP is a more noon-3 style show, I think, and Blake could make it even edgier. Monty is an elite sports talker and very funny. He’s the star and Mino understands the dynamic. They’ll be great.
Let me PRE apologize for subjecting ppl to listen to this "comedy"...or can just call it trash.
But this pretty much sums up why I never switch the dial over there, & that I am completely Team Chirp Chirp and Team Ticket.
Really enjoyed the HZ, and if they do a weekly, semi daily premium podcast, I'll gladly signup. But if they do join in on that spite station, well, good luck to all of their bottoms.
(& as some previous posts have brought up, I too believe George and Craig are more than likely Highly skeptical of this future podcasting route).
I'd go for noon-3 WiP, for sure. I did like the Donnie-Rich Phillips Black n Quack pairing. Rich seems a lot better than he used to be. As far as Sam Gannon goes, she's smart, has a good sense of humor, and would bring a female perspective that, unlike Julie, goes beyond the 'this is what women think/I like wine' banalities and dives deeper into life. That and most importantly, she actually has deep sports knowledge.
I for one am excited to see where things go. Well let me qualify that. If it's Donnie and Sean for 3 hours a day, I'm out. I love Donnie and think he's grown leaps and bounds. Sean's a good guy, a good producer, and is a good contributor in spots. But as a host. Sorry, no.
Wow. I listened to the clip Long Anon sent. It's TSE with Rhyner. It's neither funny nor well done (Julie sounds like it's her first day to be in front of mic). Julie's everything I thought she was. I would say it and get shit on for it. But I knew and I was correct all along. Rhyner is just pathetic. He's now in his mid-70s. Sad. The rest, including Julie, will be forgotten in due time.
I hold out hope that at least Danny hasn't succumbed to the vortex of pathological mediocrity that is rest of TF hosts. The station ought to rename itself as Inadequacy. That would be far more apropos. Should add that from what I can tell, Krystina also seems like a decent person who actually comes to work to, ya know, do their job to the best of their abilities.
Said it back in October. When the 2 month long circle jerk kicked off with the mantra incantating, "We're just good people," everyone better pay attention.
The moment someone tells you that if they're anything they're a woman/man of their word, son, you best run and run like hell. Blood red flag, that one. Please see above.
I bit. TF station announcement. . . . . . . . . . .
There's been a shakeup.
Before I get there, I have to say that I listened for 2 segments prior and I was under the impression that Rhyner was out for the day. He's not. Man, what a strange dynamic.
Anywho, back to The. Big. Announcement.
They're all at a remote somewhere in The Colony and it's basically the same one person yelling "whooo" as each host is announced (along with the hosts themselves). Constant and I mean constant Grubes' laughing drops. I'm guessing Grubes is deploying drops of himself? Again with the strange dynamic.
Beginning Monday: TSE will begin at 6am. TDB will now be AM Drive. You read it right. TDB 6am-10am (yes, SIX). Your AM Drive will be Sirois, Danny, and KT.
TSE ("in some form or another") to PM Drive 2-7 (yes, TWO). Show lineups are changing. TSE will be Cavanaugh and Julie and Rhyner. Again, you read it right.
B&S and Krystina, 10-2.
Translation: iHeart has given them one last lifeline. Maybe. Truthfully, this almost seems designed to fail, to make room for something else. Hmmmm. Anyone have any ideas what that show might be?
Rhyner won’t do five hours a day for a week let alone three months. And Sirois at 6am?? Jub ain’t mad anymore, I promise. Anyway, shame on Jake for lying to people who love him.
Wow. Um, OK. If I'm Cat I'm running out Rotten Radio from 10-3. Save a ton of money and still kick the crap out your competition. Sirois firing out of bed at 5am 5 days per, week afer week month after month year after year. Whatevs.
12-3pm: Combo of Mino, DJ and Blake I think it is imperative to find Blake a spot as a host. Not only has he earned it IMO but I believe keeping him in a producer role leaves him susceptible to getting poached by D&J somewhere down the line
PM Drive: Bob and Monty, Corby back to a Gordo yuck monkey type of roll. I think this links Bob up with someone who can talk sports about as well as the rest of them but also has a Dan like Sports humorist in him as well. We all know Corby isn’t the best listen when he is discussing sports but Corby has always been a star radio personality in a WTDS/Roundtable kind of format. I know this would most likely never happen with Corby at this point of his tenure but if you take longevity and who’s earned what out of the equation and were solely looking for the strongest shows possible IMO this would be a very strong lineup.
This would open up two producer roles. Cat- I’ve figured out most of it these for you these two are up to you :)
Lol of course they won’t just throwing a fantasy scenario out there. Also in the scenario Bob and Monty drop the Hardline…staple segments and all and start with a fresh new name, segments and bits. Time to move on. Enews, trifecta, community quickhits and the name hardline have all ran their course
I hate to keep harping on ratings but what part of their almost 12 share, and number one ranking in their demo make you think the hardline name and segments have run their course? (And fan is second with a 5.8 for comparison, so they’re double the closest competitor ) C
“Knowing some of the ppl involved what George said was not entirely true. They weren’t offered what they wanted or would have stayed. They wanted to stay. Was about the $. When offer sucked then they requested to b able to branch out. When others offered to take less to give them more Cumulus raised offer Tuesday but not enough to change HZ mind. HZ took high road in video but are pissed. Podcast will b for first yr then possibly Freak after. Speakeasy has 1 more yr of contract. Discussed plan is Ben/Skin to morning and HZ takes their spot. This was discussed nothing final or in writing so could change. If pod wildly successful preference is not to go back to radio but option was laid out. George is pissed at Ben/Skin. For tweets and getting involved in negotiations. Last nugget Trahan will be Donnys cohost. Mino and Monty others. Which shift still being discussed. Trahans tv job may prevent timewise noon-3. Donny was given option of either shift. Waiting to hear on producers. Bass might end up with HL. Blake noon-3 no idea 10-noon”
I believe this 98%. Will see with the upcoming hires.
Surly- know some cumulus sellers, I’m only repeating what they’ve told me, and it’s what they’ve been told, so we are getting into a game of telephone, but they seem emphatic that it wasn’t about money. That the “competing digital interests” (which I’m assuming is a podcast) would/could conflict with their sales efforts. As I said elsewhere, Trajan may be sketchy, but if THZ can sell a competing sponsorship for their podcast I can see where Cumulus would balk at that. C
Yeah Surly my reason for bit believing it is this- ACCESS. So this guy not only knows what the Freak is going to do, but also has access into the Catlin-Bennett conversations as to who’s going where at TT. Just highly unlikely we have someone with high level access to both camps. C
As to the Freak line up change, some thoughts. We have 3 guys in the morning, none of which have ever carried a show. None of them have a ratings track record that you can point to and say something like “Dennis and Colishaw took KESN from a1.0 to a 3.0 in demo in x months”. And it seems odd to take 2/3rds of your most successful show, the downbeat, and move it to mornings.
Ben and Skin. How.do.they.still.have.jobs.
Part of me thinks they’re positioning for THZ to show up, but are they preparing to sacrifice their glut of producers in morning drive, or perennial losers ben and skin.
Then 2-7. If Rhyner is disengaged from 3-7 , great, now he’ll be disengaged for 20% longer. (Math is wrong I’m sure but you know what I mean). But I’m not sure I understand the Cavanaugh Rhyner and Julie pairing. One of the 3 person show formats with 2m/1f is straight man/funny guy/flirt. Rhyner not involved enough for either straight man or funny guy,and Cavanaugh ain’t that funny.
I guess the new PD needs to be seen to do something. I’m just not sure what this gets them. That morning show will do nothing against the musers. Ben and skin are still Ben and skin, good for the 1.0 they’re averaged the last few months. And hiring Rhyner and not being a sports station is a fundamental problem. C
Per the 97.1 "big news" - is this station just a big Nathan For You bit?? "We'll incorporate what we consider major announcements that will bring about attention within the Business demographic, with our end result to hopefully stay at current, horrible numbers. But more than likely drop even further ". -Though i will want to catch a little of that new 6am show, just to hear the massive amount of Low Energy...but then KT will talk and thats an immediate punchout.
TF reshuffling of the decks is a placeholder. In 6 mos THZ pm drive will be rolled out. Rhyner will bow out, J&J will be 86'ed, if Danny and Sirois can even pull a mid 2 they'll retain their jobs, and B&S, well, being the nuke surviving cockroaches that they are, they'll stay put. Hate to say this, but contrary to what many say, whatever TT puts out from 10-2, while it might best B&S, B&S's numbers will bump up btwn 2-4 pts. Like the morning show, it'll be enough to keep them in business.
Rhyner, Julie, and Cavanaugh. Just. Wow. It's almost cruel.
I would have to imagine the new ticket lineup will be announced very soon as in within the next week. I would think they would like to have everyone in place before training camp right?
On the contrary, I think Atlanta is fine sending three less people on the expense account out to Oxnard. They’ll do it shortly after the hosts come back from CA. That’ll be nearly a full month for new reality to settle in before the Cowboys kick off the season
Finally made it through the whole thing.
ReplyDeleteI had a vision of Dan and Jake proceeding in negotiations in a highly professional, thought-out, united-front, expertly-advised, PowerPoint-produced-by-TC kind of way, perhaps taking Cumulus by surprise with some kind of innovative, intellectual-property-sharing arrangement that deserved serious consideration and had lots of moving parts susceptible to negotiation.
Who knows what really went on -- the bogging in this clip was astounding (mulling over the spelling of "whet"?) -- but they came across as ad hoc, seat-of-pants, not professionally advised, with no strategy for getting what they wanted other than laughing and saying "no."
I like these guys a lot and, as mentioned, probably spent more time in The Zone than with any other show for the past year or so. But now I'm thinking (and not happy to do so): Ya know, Cumulus probably priced this team just about right for the market, whatever it was.
Which, from their present point of view -- unless they consciously decided not to use the opportunity of this video to disclose future plans ("maybe a podcast" doesn't qualify) -- is no identifiable market at all.
Cumulus thought balloon, seeing the lack of focus they seemed to be bringing to the table: "Ya know, I think we can do pretty well putting up Donnie+1 and some of our deep bench up against Ben & Skin, 'cause these guys aren't built to launch a media empire six months from now that will survive a paywall."
I felt really, really sad for Jake, I guy I have come to like quite a lot on the air, despite some of our differences. I think he's in for a rough patch. If I were Cumulus, I'd be getting out a sledge hammer and wedge and trying to get him back, and let Smilin' Dan (who I would also like to see back) "try something new."
Of course, this video may have been a feint -- maybe they've got a business plan and budgets and competitive strategy all worked out, media partners waiting to do deals, and the like -- but Jake's eyes tell me they are free, free falling.
There's some major inside baseball at The Ticket which informed Cumulus's negotiations here. This wasn't just dollars and cents. Corby stepped up and displayed great loyalty to people I believe he genuinely considered his friends, but something tells me his attitude may not have been shared up and down the broadcast day and the corporate org-chart. It sounds like Cumulus didn't try too hard to keep them, and local Ticket management itself wasn't too panicked about it. Dan's performance in this video may provide a clue.
I'm out of town the next few days -- maybe something will shake out of greater evidentiary weight than MTC rumors. I'll keep in touch, and watch the ad hominem crap, OK?
They’re going to the Freak. You pandered to P1s by announcing they didn’t sign with the Freak(I mean, that’s common sense with non competes right?)
DeleteKTCK is Cumulus #1 property. Doing elementary research on iHeart shows they do x10 trading volume than Cumulus. iHeart can afford to pay them and play the long game, right? When the Musers retire, what happens to KTCK? The hosts and audience are aging out and Cumulus hasn’t embraced newer media.
At this point, if they aren’t headed to The Freak they’re in for a rude awakening. They can’t go it alone with what they offer. They need iheartradio money to compensate for the loss of Cumulus money.
ReplyDeleteThey’re headed to the Freak. It’s the only angle that makes total sense.
ReplyDeleteUnless this is just more high stakes negotiations, I agree 7:54
ReplyDeleteSo the hangzone agreed to join the freak over a year ago or so. Feel like we’ve been played but that’s just me being kinda emotional about it.
ReplyDeleteThey will fit in perfectly on TF...nothing of substance to talk about while looking at the clock and hoping it speeds up till they get off work.
ReplyDelete800, I think you're exactly right. I've said the same thing a few times myself. I think Richie Whitt's info this time last year was correct. I also think their admittedly joking nonchalant attitude with Cumulus over the contracts spells out the whole thing. They were asking for $$$ and other things they knew Cumulus wouldn't give so they could walk away and know that the public would see it as a Big Corporate vs labor and them as heroes. Like they had no choice and Cumulus was to blame. It worked. After seeing the video even their saying no one was the bad guy kinda felt like either a bit of guilt on their part or to drive home the evil corporation vs the little guy story evern further. Like you said I think this has been one long play. It was a done deal a year ago. Jake's admitted on the Ticket how he feels guilt over things he's done in the past and even stuff today. That could explain why he acted the way he did in the video.
ReplyDeleteSo who gets fired at the Freak to make room for them?
ReplyDelete^^^^^Who do you think? TSE.
ReplyDeleteAnyone know what this means as far as NCs go? If their contracts were up, surely any NC is void. I'd think.
I wonder how far The Plainsman’s nose is up Cats asshole.
ReplyDelete@835 pretty damn far. What has Cat done? Elevated his best friend into a host spot, moved Bob to drive time and elevated Jake to host. Jake being moved to T1 is the best move he made and i’m not sure he wanted to do it.
DeleteThe bench is shallow but with the blind loyalty a lot of P1s have, it will take a while for ratings to dip.
When the remaining ticket hosts come to terms that they’ve been played all this time it might get a little spicy.
ReplyDeleteI would argue they're in for a rude awakening at The Freak, too. That's a sinking ship that will never sink The Ticket.
ReplyDeleteWhen the rumors originally came out, people took it kinda seriously, then the freaks ratings kinda sucked and I felt like everyone thought it prob wouldn’t happen with the great ratings at the ticket. But here we are
DeleteHilariously, many Freak fans think they’re coming to do the same midday slot—on a station that barely outpaced KNTU
ReplyDeletePART ONE
ReplyDeleteBeen waiting to see how this eventually shook out before chiming in. Now we know.
If my names is either Shan or RJ I am concerned. If my name is KT, Jeff Cavanaugh, or Julie Dobbs I am unnerved to the point that I'm updating my resume, conceiving a Plan B, putting together tape, and networking my ass off.
I'm not in the entertainment/media industry much less the sub genre that is radio. So unlike others, I'm not going to act as if I know what the going rate of pay for even a successful midday show is. I will, however, say that either they have something else in place along the traditional path (Freak or FAN) or the plan is to go the podcast/multiplatform route. Those are the options I believe most of us think they'll opt for. Nothing controversial there.
Which path is more likely? I'm not sure if their "exit interview/statement" actually gave us any indication.
So let's get to it.
Not sure what to make of the video. No, that's a lie. I do, but it's not positive. Before I go into it, understand that all I or any of us can go on is by what we see and hear. My views arise from just that. So that's my pre-say.
PART TWO
ReplyDeleteFirst off, the only thing done smartly in the vid was them going out of their way to say Cumulus, no one at Cumulus, Ticket management, and no one at The Ticket are the bad guys. That was really smart on their part. It might save at least one of their tuckuses. More on that below. Second, "damn it, Dan, you make a damn joke out everything." He does. But you always got the sense (partly because he shows it from time to time) that there's a genuine point behind the joke. But this was a bad optic. Not just bad, but irritating. To the point where I'm thinking if this is Daily Dan without supervision (podcast), count me out. The other thing was his appearance. Dan's always been an open book of sorts. Including his looks. Going bald, shave your head and rarely wear a cap. Keep your face clean shaved. You look how you look. No goatee, no plugs, no Botox, no perma-3-day-scruff. Now he's wearing a ball cap pulled low, thick rimmed glasses, and a beard. You can't see his face. Hell, if I saw him on the street, I wouldn't have known it was Dan. Sometimes stuff like this means something. It could be seen to evince a closed off-ness, a hiding if you will. Might mean nothing. Then again it could mean a lot. Third, Jake looked like someone who's just figured things out, the reality of Reality is hitting home, and he's doing his best to hold it together in public. When I say just figured it out, I mean as in during the actual taping of the vid. He's got that deer in the headlights look. Never have I seen or heard him sound so unsure of himself. Then there's the not so aside aside about their negotiations. True, half true, or false, it doesn't matter (that Jake brought it up and the way he did tells me it's true), it says so much and none of it good. Frankly, it makes one wonder if they entered into negotations in good faith. That, of course, is another discussion entirely. One that won't need to be discussed if they turn up at either The Freak or The FAN in a couple of weeks or months. If they go to either, we'll know they had no intention of re-upping. And that too is another discussion. Let's see how things unfold before going down that bumpy road.
Agree 8:43 but if iheart is committed to the bit, they’ll pump money into it for at least a few years the word is…
ReplyDeleteAfter that….god knows.
The comment that sticks in my brain is one from Rhyner. When a lower tier asked him how to get a good paycheck out of the business he asked if they were willing to go somewhere else.
ReplyDeleteI don't think we're going to know anything conclusively for a while. The lawyers won't let any open talk happen until all their power to constrain the participants is done.
Yeah, this. Which is why for all the talk of Mino/Monty/Seabass/dick hicks, etc, I’ve got to believe Cumulus has talent in other markets that might be ready for the big time. Not to mention other companies. I would think if you post job opening for 3 seats at one if the dominant sports radio brands in the US, the line firms to the left for applicants. And that line is really fucking long.
DeleteC
Why is anyone sure they'd be a rousing success at TF or F? I guess you literally can't do worse at TF. But that won't necessarily mean real success. Musers up against what I heard from Dan today? Shit, man, Musers forever and it's not even close.
ReplyDeleteYeah without having another deal in place this is the one of the most nonsesnsical plays I've ever seen. Michael Scott level.
ReplyDeleteI used to work at the mothership, still talk to some of my former coworkers up there. With the caveat of this is what I’m told ( Surly- a mea Culpa on the 7/3 vacation mix up, that’s what they were told, and do what I shared here)
ReplyDeleteThey were at an impasse. THZ wanted something -IP rights, their own monetization stream- that Cumulus wouldn’t give up on. This wasn’t about money. The Corby bit on Tuesday was a Hail Mary. Dan did call Corby, but neither side would budge. My sources think it’s possible that the IP issue is a red herring, knowing that Cumulus would never agree to it, THZ refused to back down causing the split, giving them the option of the Fan, The Freak, or podcast/twitch channels.
And my own thoughts- have we ever seen a show go out in top- usually people leave for a better daypart, a different market, better pay, etc. we’re watching a show that’s coming off 6 months at the top of the ratings, and they’re just walking away. I’ve just never seen it.
One other note, if this isn’t pay based, and they went out of their way in the video to play down conflict with Cumulus, I’m really curious for details on what exactly the IP or “competing digital interests” are or were. What did THZ want so badly that Cumulus was so unwilling to give, and why aren’t Dan and Jake more upset over not getting it? It’s almost like they knew they were overreaching, weren’t expecting to get it, and were fine walking away. Which makes me think the podcast/twitch/YouTube path might be their plan.
C
In agreement that it seems like a strange and ill advised move unless they already have another deal in place. Best of luck to them, wherever they go, whatever they do. I'm jazzed about how Cat's going to fill out the lineup. Sea Bass seems like a good guy and he has gotten better over the years, but I hope he and Donnie aren't going to be the new 12-3 or 10-12 or 10-3 show. I'd like to see Donnie paired with one or two of the young guns. If anything let Sea Bass and an up and comer do 10-12. I could live with that. Onward and upward, next man up.
ReplyDeleteThe number of not so hidden references from TF twitter accounts today hinting that this has been the plan all along is either the dumbest fucking thing that will only be used as evidence to get people sued, or trolling on an almost savant-like level.
ReplyDeleteIf they aren’t going to the freak, which I assume they are at this point, I don’t get their plot. Even if they’re going to the freak, I still struggle to understand. Did bob want podcasting revenue? Did junior? Did Corby? Donovan? We’re they paid like crap? No. I think they wanted a reason to get out. Not sure exactly why yet. Ego, freak am drive, idk
ReplyDeleteBingo, C. Something doesn't smell right here. The whole attitude is way too nonchalant. Almost smiling like a Cheshire cat, as if they can't believe they're getting away with it. Whatever it is. I firmly believe they went into this with no intention of inking a deal. Leads me to think we'll see them on TF ASAP. If they did this with a view to podcasting/YouTube/et al., I'm not sure what to say other than they've taken horrible counsel and/or are delusional.
ReplyDeleteRhyner launching with TF wasn’t a long term play for him and he’s never indicated otherwise. I think this was set up masterfully to get D&J into a drive time slot. They’ve given their drive time shows 2 books to see where they’re trending. I just don’t think it makes sense to put Dan and Jake into morning drive time right now and I think they’d move the needle in a 3-7 spot. That would of course displace some people but again, I’m not 100% sure the shows and their time slots at the Freak were set in concrete to begin with. We need a Freak insider.
Delete@9:32 Dan and Jake have been bitten by the bit coin mentality of the so-called Gig Economy. It's not real. I wish someone would've clearly explained this to them. Oh well. Go Monty, Go!
ReplyDelete934, it's a bad look when you comment on your own comments. At least attempt to make it look like a different author. Sheesh.
ReplyDeleteThis was all set in motion the day Bob was announced to the hardline. I think it broke Dan.
ReplyDelete@835
ReplyDeleteBoth Rhyner and Greggo said THEY asked Cat to make Corby a 3rd host on THL. Did you know Corby had become a 3rd host prior to Greggo's firing? Seems not. How do you know what Cat was thinking when he AND Dan Bennett made the decision to make Jake a host? Why would they make a move they didn't want to make? Please read what you write before posting the comment. It might save you from looking like such a tool.
I apologize, Pman, for going at this person, but c'mon, that crap is egregious, blinkered, and gratuitous.
I may eat my words but these guys have overplayed their hand so badly.
ReplyDelete@9:42, man, I don't think you're wrong. And I'm wondering if Jake has or is realizing this too and thinking, "uh oh, what did I do?" The vibe he was giving in that video.... man.
ReplyDeleteSome advice for the Plainsman: Don't conflate the quality of their video with the quality of their show and their joint talent as radio personalities.
ReplyDeleteI have to admit a Freak move has some circumstantial evidence for it.
ReplyDeleteBut what I saw today doesn't give me confidence that there's a really well thought-out long-term iHeart play there.
If you were an iHeart executive and you were shown this video as being the two guys who were going to boost The Freak in the short run and be the anchors for some digital play in the long run, how would you react?
They going to fire founders Ben & Skin? Sure, maybe. Not like they haven't been fired before. Then you've got a non-drive boost. Well, better than nothing.
No? You're going to put abrasive, human-bog Dan McDowell against Those Who Muse So Gently in the Morning? And assume a very substantial -- not 100%, but very substantial -- risk that you will be mortified by the result? Ah, but the Musers, surely they'll retire soon and then we'll kick nates! But will the Musers move one muscle to retire if there were the slightest hint, however circumstantial, that Dan and Jake bullied them out?
This whole thing feels a whole lot more uncalculated, more random, than some of us are thinking.
As Charley said in "Death of a Salesman, it seems like these two guys are "way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine."
Told all y'all the 3rd day after TF went live that they were all full of it and that the whole station origin narrative was a bunch o bullsh and that Rhyner, Sirois, Julie, and later Danny had been playing a game of two face for months and months. If ya been peeking at Freak Twitter you'll see what I mean. The Fallout Shelter Shill was fuckin' a right all along. Give him his fuckin' a due. Know ya boys too have been playing a long game of two face. Masterfully so I might add. Anyone wanna bet me that co conspirator Julie stays on for the new morning show? Didn't think so.
ReplyDeleteLeave Hooli, start Pied Piper. Probably won't get that third comma, but maybe doors that open like this....not like this.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMac6WQwqdE
Isn’t it most likely they were offered drive time somewhere and cumulus was never going to match that money? And nobody would expect them to?
ReplyDeleteI guess that's too meta for me to get, BigHead.
ReplyDeletePlainsman makes an excellent point. The very fact they made the video leans toward this being, as you put it, "uncalculated." I'll add to it, not very well thought through. Then again, no one at iHeart seems to take issue with the level of unprofessionalism many of The Freak hosts put on display both on air and via social media. So maybe they don't care and are merely happy to be bringing aboard an am drive show that will, at least for a bit, give them respectable numbers.
Regardless of it all, what a turn of events. No one could've seen this coming.
OK, if they do end up at The Freak then we can't say we weren't warned.
@9:59 Pretty much, yeah.
ReplyDeleteOther option is they've been talking with Cash and TC and really believe in and have a plan for going digital. Doesn't seem completely unreasonable to me giving that IJB makes $5k/mo with very minimal effort and less talent.
It's difficult to imagine DnJ's lawyers saying, "walk away, you can do better elsewhere." These jobs on the whole don't exist. Not ones on stations in top 5 markets that are award winning, ratings killing, and hand over fist money earning. They HAVE to have something lined up with TF, F, or elsewhere. Other than that, for all the talk of Jake's smarts and Dan's radio industry knowledge, they're just a couple of ding dongs who grossly overvalued their worth. But I don't believe that for a second.
ReplyDelete^^^^^You'd be surprised how people in media and entertainment (same thing) are in person compared to how they portray themselves on air. Yes, they very well could be ding dongs. I know firsthand.
ReplyDeleteJust Sayin' in Sachse
I mean the show’s nickname is the dumb zone…
ReplyDeleteTo 9:53's points I will say that I did find it strange that after Julie quit, THZ would have her on or have dedicated segments about her on a weekly basis. That is, until suddenly they didn't. Next thing you know, The Freak, and Julie's position there, was announced.
ReplyDeleteI'll admit there's a lot of coincidences and circumstantial evidence here when you begin to go back to the day it was announced Bob was going to The Hardline and Dan and Jake were being paired and run through the sudden resignations, the seemingly from out of nowhere announcement of The Freak, to this, a causal chain of sorts can be drawn. If you truly want to get nutty, trace it back to Rhyner's (again, seemingly from out of nowhere) retirement.
I can hear the Coast to Coast AM theme playing right now.
I wonder if KT and Cavanaugh as a morning show was always intended to be temporary while Dan and Jake were courted, and if they’re gonna move to evenings (post-Downbeat) when D&J come aboard. I believe TF airs some syndicated show now when TDB ends.
ReplyDeleteThey could easily do
ReplyDelete6-10 Dan Jake Julie
10-12 KT and Jeff
12-3 Ben and Skin
3-7 Downbeat
I would listen live to all of 6-10 and then listen to the Musers from 10-12, then 4 or 5 Hardline segments that interest me that evening
I guess my confusion about the freak move is…it hasn’t done well. If the hangzone was interested in the freak from the get go, I get it, new ticket style station that they could be prime time in. But as time moved on…the freak became a punching bag. I would think Dan and Jake would look at it and think it’s not going well, let’s back track.
ReplyDeleteSorry. What does TSE stand for?
ReplyDelete825: Expiration of a contract for employment doesn't void the separate covenant not to compete unless the contract so provides. Unlikely that it does so in this case, so I'm operating on the assumption that the noncompete is in effect.
It was interesting. Jake seemed a little unsure as to whether they'd really resigned, although eventually said that he thought they did. Whatever communication they made, Dan Bennett didn't seem confused about its import.
This whole thing is scwewy.
IJB might make 5k per mo. Btw, how do so many of you know what IJB earns? Do they announce it? Lets say they do. They have no overhead. Or if they do, it's miniscule. That won't be the case with a 5 day per wk, hrs long pod/Twitch/YT stream. There's highend, very expensive hardware that must be upgraded regularly, payroll (and are they going to provide a living wage and insurance and vacation and the rest for each employee?), there's the pay to play aspect of YT alone, the constant hustle for advertisers and sponsors (time and resources spent), the hustle to monetize every aspect of each platform, and I can go on and on within each of these aforementioned items, plus add many more onto the list. Content creation, even on a low level, is a very stressful, damn near 27/7/365 endeavor. Even if, say, Cash Sirois is going to invest in HZ, Inc., he's neither iHeart nor Cuban. His pockets might be deep, might be, but they aren't Deep. Besides, all the money in the world won't guarantee success in this field. They are only a known commodity in this area and by a particular, specific demo. They are not Joe Rogan. They aren't even the scummy Alex Jones. What they will be, especially if they go on cameral, is a boomer (Jake. Yes, Jake) and some ancient guy who barely seems alive (Dan). It's brutal out there. they have no expertise in anything. And what interests them are things others find interesting, and nothing they engage in on their own. So any idea of being successful like one of the history or true crime pods is farcical. If this is the path forward, this is going to be more ill conceived than even The Freak.
ReplyDelete@Plainsman
ReplyDeleteThe Speakeasy. The Freak's am drive show.
Surly, Musers end at 10.
ReplyDelete1057, if they aren’t going to the freak, I think this was a huge huge, misstep.
ReplyDelete1057: Headsmack. Thanks.
ReplyDeleteI seem to be in the minorty, but I don't see what the big deal is about losing The Hang Zone. It was OK. Jake's good at talking Cowboys and Mavs. His Kemp Spin segments are always a fun ride, as well. Dan has his moments too. All the hand wringing over a 3 hour midday show seems so much of an out of whack bang to buck thing. I can understand a little bit better if we're talking about BaD Radio. That show had real moments of magic. Same with the OG Hardline. When Greggo was fired I totally understood the uproar. I was in a snit myself over it. It goes without saying, The Musers' demise would be and will be monumental. Sorry, I don't get this insane outpouring over a show that had its moments but was mostly OK. The intro was pretty cool though.
ReplyDeleteIt does make me kinda sad, but I get what you’re saying. For a lotta ticket listeners, 12-3 is nothing. They’re at work while that show is on.
DeleteIn less than 10 months there will be a swath of listeners who have to be told what THZ was. They'll hear clips of Dan and Jake posted on reddit by fanboys. They'll click on them and say, 'what's so great about this? guess you had to be there.' In less than 2 years, there will be almost as many listeners who have no idea THZ ever existed than those who remember but have to be reminded it existed to remember. Its called the way it is.
ReplyDeleteCarry out the plan of the day. Stay hard. Keep Jammin'. And we'll see ya.
Bad decision, Coach(es).
ReplyDeleteAnd when the Musers retire in 3 years as a show there will be memories of them scattered on Youtube that us ole timers will go back and watch and tell people how cool the ticket was. Yes 11:14 this will also happen to The Ticket at some point. Yours and many on this board mistake is to assume that things will carry on as is in perpetuity. If TF builds some momentum with a huge catch like Dan and Jake the inflection point of momentum can build rapidly
ReplyDeleteI would be listening on a delay. That’s why I said 10-12 for the musers. I can listen whenever I want.
ReplyDeleteAnd there are many who feel like The Hang Zone is the peak Ticket experience
ReplyDeleteLet’s get this straight. Sirois, Danny, and rhyner all had social media fans saying they’re their leaders and they’d follow them. So far, that amount of people has turned out to be not that many. I feel like the hangzone could be in a similar position. The hardcore p1 likes them because they listen all day. Will the hardcore p1 chose hangzone over musers if they’re freak am? Or will the guy that listens to and from work (majority of listeners) not notice a difference?
ReplyDeleteIf THZ is your peak Ticket listening experience, good on ya. I'll take all the years of Gordo's stuff, Bigfoot basketball, Musers' live ad spots with Jub and Gordo, and all those nearly 30 years of it and OG Hardline and listening to BaD gel into something special, The Rant, all the OG remotes and Diamondtalk remotes with OGW and Greggo, and I can go on and on. That's my peak Ticket. You were around for all that stuff too, Surly. If you don't mind me asking, is THZ your peak Ticket experience?
ReplyDeletePlacing that aside.
The many you speak of, Surly, I suspect are, as 1230am points out, a very loud minority. Sirois and TF alone attest to this. I'll go out on a short limb and say 96-98% of Ticket listeners do not engage with TT reddit fan page, MTC, or any other platform. That is, the extremely vocal minority. The bulkhead of listeners listen to the station as a whole, and when they're able -- driving to and from work, perhaps on break, at lunch, and depending on the job, throughout the day. The key is they listen to TT. Favorite shows and/or hosts and/or segments, of course. But they're loyal to the brand first and foremost. TF, and the only thing that can be said of it to this point is that it has been thus far a total failure on every level, proves this out each and every book. Yes, even the two (lastest included) that show improvement attest to this fact when taken in context.
Bingo
DeleteYes, Surly, you can listen whenever you want. But when you list out a possible line up hour by hour then in that same comment state whom you'll be listening to during those hours, well, forgive me for not taking the delay and your listening modus into consideration.
ReplyDelete"When the remaining ticket hosts come to terms that they’ve been played all this time it might get a little spicy."
ReplyDeleteThis.
Remember what I said two threads ago. Loyalties will be tested. Those who thought of others like brothers in arms will come to realize it was all a sham. Perceptions of heroes and villains alike will drastically change. This will be a radio war of the likes that has not been seen in any part of this country since the late 70s - early 80s. One day, a far piece down the road, the real story of will come out. Oh me, oh my.
when i read the comments on the reddit page i fear for the future of humankind. my. word. the. stupidity.
ReplyDeleteI guess my thing is that it floors me that people are willing to walk away from careers like that and how so many others seem to egg them on, think nothing of it, say they'd do the same, say it's what they should do, and what have you not when our nations's food banks are running low because so many people who never before could conceive of having to turn to one now do. I'm not virtue signalling. It's just I look around the world right now and our country in particular and find it fascinating and repulsive that so many of us argue for living wages and fair pay and equality for those who live amazingly cushy lives, and yet people are starving. Just enjoy the respite we get from the grind on offer by stations like The Ticket and personalities like Dan and Jake. But I ask you to have some perspective.
ReplyDeleteAll those things you list about the greatness of the ticket over the years—let me guess—you’re outside of the target demo now. You’re not thinking about the fact that there are a large number of loyal listeners who have no idea about most of those things. They’re 25-40 years old and know how out of touch the Musers are. And all they know of Greg is either in drops or the fact that he’s a QAnon loon.
ReplyDeleteI wish they would have stayed. There's no doubt a lot of the magic of The Ticket is the mixing of the shows-- WTDS, PwF, afternoon Jub, etc etc etc. I hate that I'm losing that. I think The Freak is about the most idiotic name imaginable, and I have a strong distaste for Mike R. Can't stand Ben & Skin. Don't like Danny.
ReplyDeleteI also find myself skipping more and more Musers and Hardline segments.
But I'll tune in for every minute of Dan & Jake because they entertain me more than any other show. I'll miss Ham and Blake a lot--assuming they're staying at the Ticket.
In the end, it is what it is.
Another question to consider--what happens to The Downbeat when Mike R leaves? He was already prepping his exit months ago. Will he be around in 6-12 months?
ReplyDeletegood nugget from reddit:
ReplyDelete"sirois opened a random sports jersey today on the downbeat. it was an old Browns jersey, so Dingu and Sirois were disappointed. Dingu said “maybe we should just hold that for a little bit”, implying that in 6 months he could give it to Dan."
i couldn't agree more with Surly - "The Freak" is a really terrible name. the whole "we say what we want" is a really terrible tagline.
ReplyDelete"Remember what I said two threads ago. Loyalties will be tested. Those who thought of others like brothers in arms will come to realize it was all a sham. Perceptions of heroes and villains alike will drastically change. This will be a radio war of the likes that has not been seen in any part of this country since the late 70s - early 80s. One day, a far piece down the road, the real story of will come out. Oh me, oh my."
ReplyDeletenailed it.
"they promised us they weren't gonna come back and compete against us"
eeeeeee
I have some very mixed feelings about this. Dan's radio persona (I don't know what he's like in real life) had begun to wear on me to the point I almost never listen to THZ anymore. I generally listen to the first segment and usually, Dan annoys me so I turn it off. Yet I am sad they left. Whatever replaces them might be something I like better. I don't know if they made the right decision but I'm not in any real position to judge.
ReplyDeleteI do wonder how much Bob's elevation to drive time did lead to this. It might be a long time coming but maybe the predictions that Rhyner leaving was the end will prove correct in that it was the beginning of the End.
ReplyDeleteThat was a fascinating piece of radio just now. I’d become convinced that D&J were Freak/Fan bound the last few days. But that 8:15 seggy? Unless both Dan and Jake are some straight up sociopaths willing to burn two decade long relationships…it sure sounds like that at least initially, they are going to strike out on their own path outside of terrestrial radio
ReplyDeleteThey guilted Dan into staying ten years ago and he wasn't going to cave again. Good luck to them if they're going independent, they're going to need it.
ReplyDeleteThere is very little else they could say, but the whole eff the haters vibe of that turned me off. THZ was the only show I'd been listening to consistently for the last year, and nothing in that segment changed my mind.
Eh, I don’t begrudge the guys clapping back at the haters/critics. You know what builds up in “normal” times, but coupled with record ratings and the Freak launching and failing, that was a well deserved bat flip, especially from the commander
Delete@1:42 AM: sometimes I think the same thing about the comments here
ReplyDeleteVery curious what the new lineup will look like.
ReplyDeleteLove me some WiP,, & i would guess they'd have a decent shot at one of these shifts. But man I've really enjoyed Mino with the HL.
1 or 2 to pair with Donnie...maybe DJ? Blake? How about Sam Gannon?
Going to get interesting
We need more Blake in either of those slots.
ReplyDeleteThat video is dang near unwatchable.
ReplyDeleteThe chalk would be Donnie & Sean and WIP in the 10-3 block. I wonder if all the tumult might work against a WIP promotion. Mino stays as THL producer so all the voices remain stable there. I think DJ has a really decent shot of getting elevated to a cohost spot. If they go outside the current bench, I think their first call is to Cowlishaw
ReplyDeleteWhat a powerful 8:15 segment. The most peak behind the curtain I've personally ever heard. If Dan and Jake really did decide to try something else, and they are not going to another station to compete...they made a terrible, horrible decision. I have a pit in my stomach for them. Dan does seem content on his decision, but I feel like Jake may have been coerced. If I were him I would be calling Cumulus immediately and working out a deal to stay.
ReplyDeleteWhat about Doocy as a host? He has hinted many times over the last few years that he's not digging what he's been relegated to doing at Fox 4.
ReplyDeleteNo strong opinion just a couple observations.
ReplyDelete1. Dan and Jake have a long road ahead. I will miss Dan and Jake. They were a show that I really grew to love and found them to be good talking about lots of topics, sports or otherwise.
2. Dan was on Rhyner’s podcast a while back and the topic of the nurturing biosphere of the ticket came up. Both have experiences outside of the ticket and with different overlords. I wonder if Cumulous is really that different than others. I guess so.
3. The disdain for management that bled on to the air seems to have been real and not just for played up for radio. Jub made it sound like some of their reasons for leaving go back years. A few complaints I heard over the last couple years include The furlough of Julie, the prior negotiations (Jake), the constant shuffling of their board ops (Mino).
4. Bob was clearly broken up. I had no idea how much he cared for the mid day guys. Made me sad.
5. Corby and Jub seemed to not get outside employment. From an outsiders perspective, it is hard to squint and see a better alternative for them. But I do wonder if there is a divide in
how the drive time and mid days view the ticket management.
When you work for a big company and have little to no understanding of business. You will either be blindly loyal or a have a lot of mistrust. Dan and Jake were definitely the later and Corby/Jub probably the former.
ReplyDeleteRe 853a and 857a. One of the issues I have with “people”, (not y’all just commenters in general) is the inability to mesh the “they suck” comments with the record ratings. Ok, I understand that everyone is entitled to their opinion, but do they just write off #1 ratings as “all thise opinions suck”. Is there no cognitive dissonance with those people, no effort to understand why others might find it appealing. People may not like the Musers, but they have a 17 share in demo. Clearly someone finds them appealing.
ReplyDeleteC
IMO the Musers roundtable came across very defensive with respect to George and Craig. They were laying down the gauntlet of wishing Dan and Jake well, if and only if they don't go onto compete with The Ticket. They could have been more like Bob in letting some sad emotion show while saying they will carry on. There is a good way of handling and I don't think that was it.
ReplyDeleteI have so many thoughts after listening to the combined Musers/Hardline discussion about the Hang Zone leaving. If we are to take Dan and Jake at their word, then they will not be joining The Fan or The Freak but will be starting their own podcast. I bet they also will fully invest into their Twitch stream and maximize their YouTube output as well. They can definitely make some money with these non-terrestrial radio platforms, via Patreon and other subscriptions. And they won’t have Cumulus to answer to and will be their own boss. I get the appeal.
ReplyDeleteWhat I do not understand is that Jake worked for years to become a host. Started out as an intern in the Greggo days just to show how long it has been. But then when he became a host, he never seemed happy (and I get it Surly, he has depression and anxiety but is taking medication for it as a responsible adult, so I am going to treat him like an adult). He obviously felt he wasn’t being compensated fairly as evidenced by last year’s mini-holdout and the events of this month. All that being said, I am going to assume that Jake was making low six figures with Dan making mid six figures. Very nice salaries for working conservatively 25 hours a week (actual airtime and prep).
So Jake is going to leave a really great salary behind, leave his close friends/co-workers, leave a great job that he strived to get for years talking SPORTS – to start his own podcast/Twitch channel? Makes zero sense to me. In their goodbye video on You Tube, Jake came across as angry at Cumulus even though they enabled him to have a dream job.
I like Jake a lot. He is super smart, and I align with much of what he believes in. That being said, this move strikes me as highly juvenile. He never seemed to appreciate the job and acted like it was a burden at times, even though he had publicly pined for it for years. I hope Dan and Jake’s next venture works out and I will follow it because I am a fan of theirs but man, they are making a big mistake.
Not sure why I caught some shots from C there, not much of what I posted seemed to relate to what you wrote? I don't listen to Musers consistently and I really dislike Bob & Corby, but I also know my narrow preferences don't make an iota of difference in the grand scheme of things.
ReplyDeleteNot sure which anon you are, so I’ll clarify- one of y’all said the bat flip was justified. I agree with that, my issue is the people who spout this station sucks, while ignoring white hot ratings. Absent the ratings, we have no common way to measure how the station is doing.heck, look at any social media commentary section and it often alternates
DeleteX sucks
X is great
X can suck it
I like x
It doesn’t matter who, there are lovers and haters.
With ratings we can look at it and say “The speakeasy is a hard listen, and here’s their ratings around 30th to back me up”. I’m just saying it’s harder to reconcile “The Musers Suck, here’s evidence putting them as the most popular morning show in the market as evidence of that”.
C
So, Jake waited all these years “for a ticket host to die”. And he bails after a few years to host a podcast/videocast of some sort. What an absolute joke.
ReplyDelete100% Gagree…something not good happened to Dan following COVID (or too much weed), and I’m amazed Jake would follow.
DeleteWhat if you spend years and years grinding and grinding for something you've always thought was your dream...you finally achieve it...and realize it just doesn't give you the feeling that you thought it would. And then that you have to pay to maintain a website that promotes and enhances the station. That you have to pay for your own fucking audio cables and headsets.
ReplyDeleteYep. Sometimes it isn't what you thought it was going to be.
DeleteSurly, could anything make you think Dan and Jake were offered good compensation?
ReplyDeleteIf they're starting up a podcast, I imagine they'll still be paying for everything only with a lot less income to offset those purchases.
ReplyDeleteI like most P1s I assume are very sad. End of an era for sure but I don't get the sentiment from the majority of the commenters that somehow Dan and Jake are indentured servants to Cumulus and any deviation from lifetime commitment is tantamount to a major betrayal of trust. I don't know how successful they will ultimately be but the risk averse perspective of most here wreaks of selfishness as in how dare they try to better themselves and not continue to entertain us in the way we have become accustomed to. Look around folks, not all ventures work but Simmons left the comfort of ESPN to start his own empire. For the 90 percent of people that leave comfort and fall on their faces there are the 10 percent or so that wildly succeed. I will give Dan and Jake the benefit of the doubt that they have a solid plan before I cry that they have committed the ultimate crime by leaving.
ReplyDeleteSimmons had a national audience that he knew would be there. No one outside of DFW know who Dan and Jake are. Hell, there are sports radio listeners in DFW that don’t know who Dan and Jake are.
Delete100%
DeleteGeez man be careful on that high horse. The fall is a bitch.
DeleteI suppose hearing the recordings of the negotiations would help.
ReplyDeleteI'll quote jasonDFW from twitter here:
"I know when I want to leave my job to go do something else I enter into painfully protracted contract negotiations, work an extra week unpaid, continue to negotiate after my employer forces me to resign, and then leave a tearful goodbye. It's much easier than just quitting."
A lot of assumptions here.
DeleteSo it's OK to assume negotiations were "painfully protracted" and that they were unpaid for their labor, but assuming that Cumulus negotiated in good faith and offered a very reasonable package is, what, boot licking? Come on.
ReplyDeleteAlso, not one tear was shed by Dan or Jake.
I can only hope they didn’t solely leave to do a podcast…if so, they are morons. They are not national follows such as Bill Simmons. The only logical thing would be to leave for another station who clearly would value them more ($$$) than Cumulus while allowing for a side hustle podcast…such as iHeart.
ReplyDeleteYeah Jake grinder to get his host gig...but he & Dan are going to have to grind tenfold in order to just make the same amount of money they did at The Ticket, not to mention benefits, etc.
ReplyDeleteJake might have the motivation for that, but does Dan once the initial adrenaline wears off? He's not a spring chicken.
I am not talking going national. Let's not get caught in linear thinking here. All they would need to do is carry over a decent percentage of their DFW area audience (several hundred thousand) to a subscription type multi media platform and they will make more money. Lets say they get 10 percent of their audience and conservatively estimate that to be 30,000 people who are willing to each pay a paltry 5 dollars a month. That would yield 150k a month in revenue not counting any side endorsements they could get. You can easily see a world where they grow a DFW area revenue stream into 1.5 to 2 million per year to be split between D & J plus some amount to support staff. I could envision them making 500 to 700k per year while doing it on their own terms. Best wishes D & J
ReplyDeleteThat's a fantasy. Please provide evidence of this ever occurring. You also grossly ovrrestimate their presence in DFW alone.
DeleteDo you have any idea of their current lifestyle and it's cost to maintain? Do you know that the avg salary in the US is 70 k?
DeleteCan you point me to another DFW podcast that has 30k subscribers? And radio audience constantly churns. Check out Sirius’s churn rate. Even if they could get 30k, how do they attract new listeners to replace the departed? Ben was a sales guy before he went on air. Are Dan or Jake going to negotiate those side endorsements, bill them, collect, keep the books, etc. now you’ve added some sort of sales guy, and a bookkeeper/accountant type to your expenses. And who’s going to keep the equipment working? Add a contract engineer to those expenses. And cumulus has back equipment and other studios. If their stuff goes down, even for a day, they have issues.
DeleteAnd most importantly; will 30k people pay for a version of what they can get for free on at least 2 spots on the dial? I’m not saying Dan and Jake were popular because of the Ticket, but a rising tide lifts all boats. How many of those listeners popping their car tray on the steering wheel at lunch times were listening because their radio hadn’t moved from the Morning muser commute? So how many of those listeners will just leave on 1310 with the (WIP?/elf? /the 5 hour Donnie show?/hang zone replacement? ) I think guesses of what they’ll get are just that guesses.
C
please go take a look at the top 100 podcast in Apple or Spotify and report back how many are radio show/host converts.
Delete@TrickyKid
ReplyDelete>Very nice salaries for working conservatively 25 hours a week (actual airtime and prep).
if you think that Dan and Jake "only" work 15 hours of week on the airtime + 10 hours total all week for prep, you are showing you don't know shit.
I don’t feel too bad for Bob. Him jumping ship started this whole ball rolling. Donnie Doo needs the right partner and Sean Bass ain’t it. The brass surely can see that. 10-3 is gonna be a barren wasteland. Dan should tell us who line 4 guy is.
ReplyDeleteJump ship. Are you 12?
DeleteThe Musers, Bob, and Corby addressed the situation this morning around 8:30. They didn't really break and new news but expressed their friendship over the years and wished them well. Bob got very emotional about it. They also acknowledged the up-and-coming JV and said they looked forward to working with whoever the replacements were. They also mentioned that D&J said they would not directly challenge them in the market. We shall see there.
ReplyDeleteBasically, it was "That's the way radio goes."
Anyone have a url to that segment?
ReplyDeleteTo Anon 11:21 - I don't know shit? Can't we have civil conversation here? Be polite, Jesus Christ..
ReplyDeleteOkay, how many hours do you think Dan and Jake dedicated to the show a week?
https://post.futurimedia.com/ktck/playlist/21/listen-5252.html?cb=1689946883.930644&fbclid=IwAR100lCvsy-tTX0EwB-9HShTFvUxR5mwS7GZuZq2FtaXzOWtrQErjvaVA-A
ReplyDeleteSorry. The link above is the Musers discussion with Bob and Corby this morning.
ReplyDeleteTwitter link.
ReplyDeletehttps://twitter.com/dfwticket/status/1682395049315688449?s=20
Thanks, 1204!
ReplyDeleteNow that I've listened to the full segment from this morning, I'd say Jub was directing his anger directly at those from the spite station
ReplyDeleteCorrect, 12:19. In fact, if I had to guess, I think he was referring specifically to the Rhyner tweet about attendance at Summer Bash.
ReplyDeleteI didn't see the Rhyner tweet re: Summer Bash. Is there a link to it?
ReplyDeleteShame if this is the path that those relationships are heading down.
A few things-
ReplyDelete1. The media is consolidating, and many high profile people are being let go from well known established companies. There's more competition for fewer jobs.
2. Their market value might be X based on what they've done, but in this economy it might be Y, and they won't get X anywhere because that job doesn't exist anymore.
3. Anything outside of KTCK for them will likely be a challenge. They were buoyed by the other shows on the station, and they by themselves won't be able to carry a station.
4. I don't see how both of them don't come away making less money. For Dan that might not be a big deal as he's been a host for more than 20 years in a major market, and he's considerably closer to traditional retirement age than Jake is. Jake still needs a big job to maintain his current lifestyle.
5. As much as it might stink for Jake his timing in this profession just stinks. If he follows this exact career path 20 years ago he's golden. But now he's likely going to have to take a significant pay cut and go back to doing things he thinks he might be above at this point in his career.
6. I think KTCK is just fine in letting the JV team plus Donnie have whatever becomes of 10-3. Donnie can help carry half of that, and some lower level people who are just happy to be there can host at a relative discount while they build a resume and the Ticket doesn't shed listeners.
Personally I don't think Dan and Jake are on their way to find Bill Simmons type of success in the independent broadcasting world. They don't have a national audience to draw from, and Ticket listeners are notoriously loyal. Sure some people may follow them, but as the Freak is finding out just because they have Ticket affiliations, it won't bring them a Ticket audience.
And one last thing-Dan might take an opportunity elsewhere leaving Jake all alone. Dan has a hefty resume that might open doors somewhere. Unfortunately I think Jake will be left hoping for scraps in another market or without longterm guarantees on the Freak or the Fan. What the Ticket created was completely abnormal in radio. This doesn't exist elsewhere. Jake should probably just take the best thing he can find either at the Ticket at a reduced rate or as a host on the other local stations. The good times are over.
Rhyner tweeted a pic of summer bash with a small crowd for the time wasters and a comment like “that’s it?”. He deleted if after he said a ticket staffers wife called him out on it. Interesting, didn’t say on air persons wife, but staffer makes me think it was someone not on air. He was getting hammered for it because it was mid June, ball sweat hot, and the ticket can draw crowds elsewhere, while the Freak struggles with ratings, much less drawing a huge crowd to see a bad -but funny- band do schtick.
ReplyDeleteC
NOT EXACTLY BREAKING
ReplyDeleteI'm at the airport with limited resources. Will need to keep this shorter than my usual Gone With the Wind length.
(1) No one knows anything. I mean no one. Not us, not guys at The Ticket, and, my surmise, not really Smilin' Dan and Jake.
(2) The process was weird, baffling. Circumstances seem to support those here who say they never intended to stay. It was apparently not take-it-or-leave it on Cumulus's part, but have no info on whether they tried to accommodate "we want digital participation/independent podcast" in any way, although I get hints that maybe it did.
(3) Negotiations continued until late in the process, right up until they walked.
As much as I want these guys to stay (want them back, I guess we have to say): Smilin' Dan is a walking grievance. He's the "Curb" of Dallas radio. I'm sure that's why many of the people who love him, love him. Jake never struck me as a guy subject to Svengali-esque infuence, but I have to wonder if Smilin' Dan's cynicsm and chafing under the Man's real or imagined mistreatment The Man eventually rubbed off on him. Will that ethos play on The Freak?
To his eventual regret.
Or, judging from his heartbreaking performance on the "we gone' video, not so eventual.
If they go to The Freak and don't compete with the Musers, then it's back to middays. Unless this is accompanied by some staggering deal that Cumulus couldn't swallow -- that would just be sad.
I'm telling you, with Dan and Jake expecting to be rah-rah for The Freak, and after six months of radio silence, those guys will not sound the same to you the next time you hear them. Stuck between two known stiff shows, and not a thing they can do about it. They may be able to repair their brand, but it will be as a different-sounding show. Any podcast -- Smilin' Dan's going to do MORE work than he does now? -- won't fix it.
Come back, lads. At least Jake.
I'm puzzled why so many people seem to be buying the narrative that DaJ are leaving to "go it alone" on the podcast/digital route, when going to the Freak makes so much more sense.
ReplyDeleteThe announcement video is prime evidence of this. If they were committed to building an audience and doing their own thing, I GUARANTEE you that video would have been entirely designed to increase interest, state intentions and capture subscribers. This was probably the biggest guaranteed audience they will ever be able to count on ... and they barely even hinted at doing a podcast, or even having a clear direction at all. Dan said something like, "you know, if there was a podcast," and Jake corrected him with, "oh, there will definitely be a podcast."
This is not the way to launch a new vehicle. This is the way to try to cloud your intentions and muddy the waters because it's not in your interest, for many reasons, for the public to know what you're doing next ...
See them on the Freak in 6 months or less.
I will be shocked if this doesn't come to pass.
Probably because what the Ticket sales staff is being told, so what is leaking out to clients /listeners is that the sticking point , like the Bennett email said, is “competing digital assets”. I’m told they wanted to have their own podcast with their own revenue stream and their own marketing ability outside the Cumulus umbrella. Multiple issues- as the troll reminds us Jake does Trajan investment spots. With outside marketing, Jake could do a podcast endorsement for Merrill Lynch, Edward Jones, etc, and compete with the terrestrial sponsors. Why would Cumulus want to allow their side gig to compete with their main gig?
DeleteWow, imagine the carnage if they actually went up against The Musers. They gotta be smarter than that. That would be Jake vs Mike in Duncanville and Jake wouldn’t be on the good side of this one.
ReplyDelete@12:56 it would be a meat grinder. That might be why TSE is on the Freak in AM drive instead of a legitimately competitive show. Until the Musers retire the 25-54 demographic belongs to them. Putting some version of THZ in AM drive is an expensive waste, unless both Dan and Jake are willing to take a massive paycut to make it worth another station's time. That also begs the question-why not just stay at the Mothership making a similar wage in a comfortable environment? There's no real good option for Dan and Jake in this market IMO.
ReplyDeleteIf it involves Ben and Skin losing another gig, imma laugh my ass off.
ReplyDeleteAs long as they’re allowed to quit before they get fired. They gotta keep that track record intact.
ReplyDelete(And really never being fired, and 6 stations in 14 years, just means that you’ve always been so “mid” that you’ve never been so good to be locked into a long term deal, and never so bad to get fired before you saw it coming and quit. For radio professionals, that’s not the flex that Ben, skin, or their supporters think it is.
@ The Plainsman
ReplyDeleteI've always thought putting Dan and Jake together brought out the worst in each other in regards to grievances, be it with the man, the system, anything really. This looks to be the culmination of that.
I went back and relistened to the family meeting segment and they all (outside of Bob) came off even worse than on first listen. Really, really bad look.
ReplyDeleteIn what way? You're so in the bag, so weirdly so, for THZ. Weirder still, you're a middle of middle aged guy who's weirdly attached to THZ.
DeleteDisagree completely Surly. They are tired of their supposed longtime friends and colleagues trying to pronounce them dead and laughing at anything that could be perceived as bad at TT. Probably a lot of confusion at Dan and Jake's motives as well. After the Sirois, Mike, and Danny exits they may be rightfully skeptical that D&J are being completely honest with them. Especially when it appears they never had any real intentions of staying.
ReplyDeleteI agree. I think the Musers suspect that they are being lied to, again. I think they fully expect that they will be competing head to head with them the day the noncompete expires. I really don't blame the Musers for not exhibiting Sturm's level of emotion.
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeleteOGW retired months before the pandemic. At that time, the Ticket lineup was:
Gordo, Junior, Jub, Fernando and Jillian
Norm Donnie Sirois and Jillian
Dan Bob Jake Mino and Julie
Mike, Corby, Danny, Mino
Now?
Gordo, Junior, Jub, Fernando and DJ
Donnie and Sean Bass with Blake and Mino with Joe Trahan / Somebody off the bench
Bob, Corby, Gen X Davey, Mino
I hate to say it, but this is a radically transformed — and not in a good way — station lineup.
And if every station in the market and all the ad agencies in town and nationwide subscribed to “Poor The Legends radio rankings and ratings”, your opinion might be more valid. But they don’t. They subscribe to Neilsen ratings and those ratings show those shows doing head and shoulders better than they were a year ago or 3 years ago.
DeleteThis is exactly what I mentioned in another comment. It’s an opinion that they’re better or worse than they were 3 years ago. But there’s no way to quantify that. And the one way we do have to quantify radio popularity, they’re doing better than ever. In fact, BEST ever.
C
I thought the video they released was to get out ahead of it leaking from the Cumulus end. It very clearly was not to launch their new vehicle.
ReplyDeleteI can't imagine they directly told the entire ticket they wouldn't compete with them and then go jump directly over to the freak
It could’ve taken maybe 30 min to prep for that vid just a little better lol
ReplyDeleteWe only have the current employees of the ticket telling us that D&J said they didn't want to compete with them. I don't think that all four of the guys would lie but it would set D&J up as the bad guys if they do go elsewhere, which might keep P1's from following them. I don't think anyone involved is being totally honest, especially not with us.
ReplyDeleteSo half the people listening to it see 2 ladies faces. And the other half see a vase.
ReplyDeleteI think The musers are the most detached from the rest of the staff. They only interacted with Norm and D regularly, so don’t have the same emotional involvement as Corby, and certainly not Bob level. He’s got 20 years with Dan and what 15 with Jake in some role? I can see why it Bob harder.
And what I took away from that last part is a paraphrase of don henley- “I will not go quietly”. People are saying this is the end of the ticket, the ticket is dead to them, etc. what I heard was musers and hardline both saying they’re fighting for what they’ve done and where they’ve gotten to and aren’t about to give up. And they kinda have a point. They have their best ratings EVER and yet the loss of a midday show, a show together just 3 years, is a mortal wound. Sorry, I don’t see it that way.
C
PTL, let's wait until full-time announcements are made before judging the lineup. This morning, Craig said there would be "three new hosts" announced soon.
ReplyDeleteDale Hansen, Mike Doocy and who???
DeleteI personally do not understand the backlash from this mornings Musers/Hardline segment. The message from Jub is exactly what I, an incredibly loyal, devoted Ticket P1 needed to hear. I was concerned that a departure such as THZ could cause some doubt or uncertainty among the group which it seems is clearly and understandably the case with a few or them. It was awesome to hear the passion from Jub and to reassure to us loyal P1’s that they aren’t going anywhere. And although a setback they will continue their dominance as the best radio station that’s ever existed. THZ has been admittedly my second favorite show. I’ve loved those guys and am sad to see them go. I can’t honestly say that I will not check them out at whatever platform they end up on next. But their exit especially after their incredibly cringeworthy video that was posted yesterday has left a bad taste in my mouth about the two. The loyal Ticket P1, bunker mentality has me rooting against them now. And today’s message is exactly what I needed to hear. Way to rally the fucking troops Jub.
ReplyDeleteThumb Up, Gagree.
DeleteAgreed.
ReplyDeleteI’m a huge P1 as well, and I’m not calling the demise of the Ticket.
ReplyDeleteI was in college during 9/11. I recall the day afterward in class I said something like “The country just got sucker punched.”
A kid next to me shouted that America will never be sucker punched; he then melted into a red, white, and blue puddle . I transferred soon thereafter.
I guess I’m just saying, sometimes some of us like to articulate the situation first , before figuring out what might come next.
And while TF ratings are unimpressive, if D+J wind up there, you cannot say TF failed at causing chucks of destruction in the wall of the nuturing biosphere.
If I could have a dollar for every time C references ratings…I could make Dan & Jake a very compelling offer.
ReplyDeleteOmar Bradley in WW2- amateurs talk tactics, professionals talk logistics.
DeleteIn this case, amateurs talk opinions, professionals talk ratings.
We can never quantify random internet opinions. But the ratings are generalized opinions quantified into understandable numbers, rankings, shares, etc. they may not be right, they may be flawed, etc. but they’re the one somewhat objective thing we have to measure popularity in the general public. So why 100% of the people here or on Reddit May think the musers suck, ratings give us the opportunity to say “you sure about that? 17% of the audience of men 25-54 listen to the musers”.
As a wise man once said, opinions are like assholes, everyone has one and they usually stink. People are entitled to their opinion, but we need to realize that’s all they are. Opinions.
Need to double-check your Omar Bradley quote Bro…
DeleteSorry, it’s strategy not tactics isn’t it? That’s one of those I’ve messed up before the same way. Sorry!
DeleteC
It looks like Pman is falling into the same category as a few others who strangely think Jake is being pulled into the cynical, fight-the-man orbit of Dan. Dan has negotiated multiple contracts since “Bob and Dan almost went to the Fan”, and as far as we know none of them were contentious. Dan left money on the table out of a desire to stay in TT bunker.
ReplyDeleteJake, on the other hand, tendered his resignation in his last round of negotiations, and he sounded genuinely ready to move on and a bit surprised/unhappy that he was still employed at TT. Nothing like Dan’s happiness to stay at the mothership a dozen years ago. Jake’s always been anti-the-man and has a dark and brooding malcontent. This seemed inevitable for him. I’m surprised Dan joined him.
600971
ReplyDeleteJMO, but I truly don’t believe the existing Ticket bench can fill the spot(s) from 10-3. With the cash now saved from the departures of Norm, Dan and Jake, the station needs at least one big name. Dale? Doocy? Galloway?
ReplyDeleteBut unfortunately based on the Cumulus sub $5 stock price, I’d guess we’ll get no big name, and my ears will go elsewhere after 10AM.
I just want to make sure I'm understanding some of you:
ReplyDeleteI've read countless comments here, on reddit, and on Twitter about how it's high time Monty, Mino, and others got their shot.... before they too, like Sirois, Danny, and Julie are FORCED to quit, magically get hosting positions at TF, and receive the Living Wage they have thus far been so cruelly denied. That it is THESE young men who are The Future of The Ticket and who they truly wish to listen to. That they're tired of these horrible OLDS and their stoopy stoopy dumb dumb opinions and outmoded ways of thinking.
Here is THE opportunity for Cat/Bennett to give these guys their shot.
Look who for the most part has been filling in. Let's call it what it is, look who is getting the try outs. Why it's those very same players.
Yet. Yet. All I now read --and I'm fairly certain by the same folks screaming about the unfair treatment of Monty, Mino, and the gang-- comment after comment claiming this is The End of The Ticket (TM pending). That there's no one who can fill the shoes of 54 year old Dan and sprinting toward middle age Jake (how OLD of them to age like that. The very nerve!), and how they will take their listening elsewhere, to wherever Old Dan and So Close to Being Old Jake go.
Critical thinking is a hella difficult thing for so many of you, it seems.
That anonymous 3:42 comment that says "600971" isn't getting any attention. I'm tuned in to TDB today because I am interested in their takes on this and maybe just feeling nostalgic. They are teasing a roundtable and announcement at 6:00 this evening. May be worth checking into.
ReplyDeleteDale? In his 70s. Doocy? In his 60s. Galloway? , in his 80s. I too think they need more than Mino, Monty or Sea Bass, but can we get some people who aren’t on social security?
ReplyDeleteC
Any grab from the outside will be ticket adjacent. Cowlishaw, Dick Hicks, Teddy E (longshot). How many calls from Ralph Strangis do you think Cat has let go to voicemail? 100? 200?
DeleteI’m afraid you’re right on this. Cowlishaw would be a daily beat down for me.
DeleteIt was Sirois, DP. He just can't help himself. Don't take the bait, y'all. You'll tune in only to hear him welcome in all the new listeners. At that time they'll make some "non starter" announcement. He and TF are pathetic.
ReplyDeleteI would love to see WiP take the 10-12 slot and for Donnie and either Trahan or Gannon plus a 3rd taken from the JV to round out middays. I think that would be a strong lineup, and a lineup that promotes not only from within, but also would add much needed diversity.
ReplyDeleteHard to see Joe T being able to do anything but 10-12. Guy has a lot on his plate with his day job. Just don’t get the Sam Gannon push. Different strokes I guess. Donovan + Sean or Donovan + Cowlishaw seem like destiny for one of the 10-3 slots
Delete4:26-You are probably right but I may still tune in. I gave TDB a chance for a while early on when they first hit the air and didn't completely hate it but found it never really grabbed me so I bailed after a couple of weeks. Listening today and I can't tell the difference between Ben, Skin and KT's voices on the commercials.
ReplyDeleteWIP is a more noon-3 style show, I think, and Blake could make it even edgier. Monty is an elite sports talker and very funny. He’s the star and Mino understands the dynamic. They’ll be great.
ReplyDeleteWIP 12-3 with DJ promoted to third wheel and Blake producing would be this humble commenter’s ideal THZ replacement.
Deletehttps://www.reddit.com/r/thefreak971/comments/154ok9p/jack_kemp_dan_odowl/
ReplyDeleteLet me PRE apologize for subjecting ppl to listen to this "comedy"...or can just call it trash.
But this pretty much sums up why I never switch the dial over there, & that I am completely Team Chirp Chirp and Team Ticket.
Really enjoyed the HZ, and if they do a weekly, semi daily premium podcast, I'll gladly signup. But if they do join in on that spite station, well, good luck to all of their bottoms.
(& as some previous posts have brought up, I too believe George and Craig are more than likely Highly skeptical of this future podcasting route).
I'd go for noon-3 WiP, for sure. I did like the Donnie-Rich Phillips Black n Quack pairing. Rich seems a lot better than he used to be. As far as Sam Gannon goes, she's smart, has a good sense of humor, and would bring a female perspective that, unlike Julie, goes beyond the 'this is what women think/I like wine' banalities and dives deeper into life. That and most importantly, she actually has deep sports knowledge.
ReplyDeleteI for one am excited to see where things go. Well let me qualify that. If it's Donnie and Sean for 3 hours a day, I'm out. I love Donnie and think he's grown leaps and bounds. Sean's a good guy, a good producer, and is a good contributor in spots. But as a host. Sorry, no.
^^^^^I'd be happy with that and so would Vladdy.
ReplyDeleteWow. I listened to the clip Long Anon sent. It's TSE with Rhyner. It's neither funny nor well done (Julie sounds like it's her first day to be in front of mic). Julie's everything I thought she was. I would say it and get shit on for it. But I knew and I was correct all along. Rhyner is just pathetic. He's now in his mid-70s. Sad. The rest, including Julie, will be forgotten in due time.
ReplyDeleteBy the way, there's about 6 comments. The entire Freak reddit is utterly dead excepting Cavanaugh and KT coming off as desperate.
ReplyDeleteI hold out hope that at least Danny hasn't succumbed to the vortex of pathological mediocrity that is rest of TF hosts. The station ought to rename itself as Inadequacy. That would be far more apropos. Should add that from what I can tell, Krystina also seems like a decent person who actually comes to work to, ya know, do their job to the best of their abilities.
ReplyDeleteSaid it back in October. When the 2 month long circle jerk kicked off with the mantra incantating, "We're just good people," everyone better pay attention.
The moment someone tells you that if they're anything they're a woman/man of their word, son, you best run and run like hell. Blood red flag, that one. Please see above.
Carry on.
Julie was just being cheeky and funny. She sent out a nice tweet about them yesterday. Calm down.
ReplyDeleteI bit. TF station announcement. . . . . . . . . . .
ReplyDeleteThere's been a shakeup.
Before I get there, I have to say that I listened for 2 segments prior and I was under the impression that Rhyner was out for the day. He's not. Man, what a strange dynamic.
Anywho, back to The. Big. Announcement.
They're all at a remote somewhere in The Colony and it's basically the same one person yelling "whooo" as each host is announced (along with the hosts themselves). Constant and I mean constant Grubes' laughing drops. I'm guessing Grubes is deploying drops of himself? Again with the strange dynamic.
Beginning Monday: TSE will begin at 6am. TDB will now be AM Drive. You read it right. TDB 6am-10am (yes, SIX). Your AM Drive will be Sirois, Danny, and KT.
TSE ("in some form or another") to PM Drive 2-7 (yes, TWO). Show lineups are changing. TSE will be Cavanaugh and Julie and Rhyner. Again, you read it right.
B&S and Krystina, 10-2.
Translation: iHeart has given them one last lifeline. Maybe. Truthfully, this almost seems designed to fail, to make room for something else. Hmmmm. Anyone have any ideas what that show might be?
Skin also closed it out by saying more big changes are coming soon that they can’t announce yet. More Dan and Jake to TF fuel.
DeleteRhyner won’t do five hours a day for a week let alone three months. And Sirois at 6am?? Jub ain’t mad anymore, I promise. Anyway, shame on Jake for lying to people who love him.
DeleteThe afternoon at TF looks like a nice landing pad for Dan & Jake in a few months. Maybe I’m crazy.
DeleteWow. Um, OK. If I'm Cat I'm running out Rotten Radio from 10-3. Save a ton of money and still kick the crap out your competition. Sirois firing out of bed at 5am 5 days per, week afer week month after month year after year. Whatevs.
ReplyDeleteMy fantasy Ticket lineup:
ReplyDeleteAM Drive: Musers (obviously)
10-12: Donnie+Davie
12-3pm: Combo of Mino, DJ and Blake
I think it is imperative to find Blake a spot as a host. Not only has he earned it IMO but I believe keeping him in a producer role leaves him susceptible to getting poached by D&J somewhere down the line
PM Drive: Bob and Monty, Corby back to a Gordo yuck monkey type of roll.
I think this links Bob up with someone who can talk sports about as well as the rest of them but also has a Dan like Sports humorist in him as well. We all know Corby isn’t the best listen when he is discussing sports but Corby has always been a star radio personality in a WTDS/Roundtable kind of format. I know this would most likely never happen with Corby at this point of his tenure but if you take longevity and who’s earned what out of the equation and were solely looking for the strongest shows possible IMO this would be a very strong lineup.
This would open up two producer roles. Cat- I’ve figured out most of it these for you these two are up to you :)
Neither Cat nor Corby will likely read this, so I volunteer as tribute to reply with a simple “LOL”.
DeleteLol of course they won’t just throwing a fantasy scenario out there. Also in the scenario Bob and Monty drop the Hardline…staple segments and all and start with a fresh new name, segments and bits. Time to move on. Enews, trifecta, community quickhits and the name hardline have all ran their course
DeleteAnd quite frankly are not original and are all Mike and Greggos bits
DeleteI hate to keep harping on ratings but what part of their almost 12 share, and number one ranking in their demo make you think the hardline name and segments have run their course?
ReplyDelete(And fan is second with a 5.8 for comparison, so they’re double the closest competitor )
C
v interesting Reddit comment:
ReplyDelete“Knowing some of the ppl involved what George said was not entirely true. They weren’t offered what they wanted or would have stayed. They wanted to stay. Was about the $. When offer sucked then they requested to b able to branch out. When others offered to take less to give them more Cumulus raised offer Tuesday but not enough to change HZ mind. HZ took high road in video but are pissed. Podcast will b for first yr then possibly Freak after. Speakeasy has 1 more yr of contract. Discussed plan is Ben/Skin to morning and HZ takes their spot. This was discussed nothing final or in writing so could change. If pod wildly successful preference is not to go back to radio but option was laid out. George is pissed at Ben/Skin. For tweets and getting involved in negotiations. Last nugget Trahan will be Donnys cohost. Mino and Monty others. Which shift still being discussed. Trahans tv job may prevent timewise noon-3. Donny was given option of either shift. Waiting to hear on producers. Bass might end up with HL. Blake noon-3 no idea 10-noon”
I believe this 98%. Will see with the upcoming hires.
Ok never mind, that person made a post 3 days ago that had a bunch of other bold statements that did not play out
ReplyDeleteSurly- know some cumulus sellers, I’m only repeating what they’ve told me, and it’s what they’ve been told, so we are getting into a game of telephone, but they seem emphatic that it wasn’t about money. That the “competing digital interests” (which I’m assuming is a podcast) would/could conflict with their sales efforts. As I said elsewhere, Trajan may be sketchy, but if THZ can sell a competing sponsorship for their podcast I can see where Cumulus would balk at that.
DeleteC
Yeah Surly my reason for bit believing it is this- ACCESS. So this guy not only knows what the Freak is going to do, but also has access into the Catlin-Bennett conversations as to who’s going where at TT. Just highly unlikely we have someone with high level access to both camps.
DeleteC
As to the Freak line up change, some thoughts. We have 3 guys in the morning, none of which have ever carried a show. None of them have a ratings track record that you can point to and say something like “Dennis and Colishaw took KESN from a1.0 to a 3.0 in demo in x months”. And it seems odd to take 2/3rds of your most successful show, the downbeat, and move it to mornings.
ReplyDeleteBen and Skin. How.do.they.still.have.jobs.
Part of me thinks they’re positioning for THZ to show up, but are they preparing to sacrifice their glut of producers in morning drive, or perennial losers ben and skin.
Then 2-7. If Rhyner is disengaged from 3-7 , great, now he’ll be disengaged for 20% longer. (Math is wrong I’m sure but you know what I mean).
But I’m not sure I understand the Cavanaugh Rhyner and Julie pairing. One of the 3 person show formats with 2m/1f is straight man/funny guy/flirt. Rhyner not involved enough for either straight man or funny guy,and Cavanaugh ain’t that funny.
I guess the new PD needs to be seen to do something. I’m just not sure what this gets them. That morning show will do nothing against the musers. Ben and skin are still Ben and skin, good for the 1.0 they’re averaged the last few months. And hiring Rhyner and not being a sports station is a fundamental problem.
C
Ha, reading that persons post history it wouldn’t shock me if it was Jake’s brother
ReplyDeletePer the 97.1 "big news" - is this station just a big Nathan For You bit??
ReplyDelete"We'll incorporate what we consider major announcements that will bring about attention within the Business demographic, with our end result to hopefully stay at current, horrible numbers. But more than likely drop even further ".
-Though i will want to catch a little of that new 6am show, just to hear the massive amount of Low Energy...but then KT will talk and thats an immediate punchout.
TF reshuffling of the decks is a placeholder. In 6 mos THZ pm drive will be rolled out. Rhyner will bow out, J&J will be 86'ed, if Danny and Sirois can even pull a mid 2 they'll retain their jobs, and B&S, well, being the nuke surviving cockroaches that they are, they'll stay put. Hate to say this, but contrary to what many say, whatever TT puts out from 10-2, while it might best B&S, B&S's numbers will bump up btwn 2-4 pts. Like the morning show, it'll be enough to keep them in business.
ReplyDeleteRhyner, Julie, and Cavanaugh. Just. Wow. It's almost cruel.
@8:34 They are putting that up against the Musers? Talk about a sinking ship.
ReplyDeleteI would have to imagine the new ticket lineup will be announced very soon as in within the next week. I would think they would like to have everyone in place before training camp right?
ReplyDeleteOn the contrary, I think Atlanta is fine sending three less people on the expense account out to Oxnard. They’ll do it shortly after the hosts come back from CA. That’ll be nearly a full month for new reality to settle in before the Cowboys kick off the season
DeleteSo a Ticket dry dock show is now the morning show for TF! LOL
ReplyDelete