Wednesday, June 27, 2012

Wherein I Am Constrained to Defend The Hardline Again

From time to time this site gets comments criticizing The Hardline for doing music segments.  The last one was in the string of the last set of comments, from a listener who calls himself "rhyner never died, he just tries to act too cool for school. what a "rebel" he is. said..."   I paste it here, somewhat sanitized:

"Ah, The Tardline at its worst: golden oldie bands that nobody [cares] about but this is what WE'RE interested in so [the hell with] you talk. I swear Rhyner is unable to express a coherent thought. Like Cuban said to Skip Bayless "you speak in generalities." That's what Rhyner does, and it's maddening to listen to. Buffalo Springfield? Are you kidding me? They have one, count it, one song they're known for; one tune that of the 40% of their listening audience who actually knows of Buffalo Springfield only 5% know anything other than that song: "For What It's Worth." Ah, but now it comes to light, it's all a cover to talk about, once again, the extremely overrated Neil Young. Young, Dylan, Springsteen, The Tardline never quite can get enough of them; listener be damned. Well, guess what Rhyner, [intercourse] you right back. I'm done with ya. From here on out, the moment WTDS ends, I'm out till the Morning Musers.

"The Tardline: Talk for Us, Not You."



OK.  A little intemperate, but a point of view that a number of Confessors seem to hold.

I am not one of them.  I like the music talk.  It's not nostalgia -- Buffalo Springfield was not in my wheelhouse -- I just find it interesting.  Rock and roll is important to The Ticket demo.  Irrespective of whether you're at the younger or older end of that spectrum, the bands Mike features on "Old Music Wednesday" or whatever he calls it were for the most part influential or unjustly overlooked.  He thinks his listeners sh old know about them.  He appreciates them, and it's an emblem of his respect for the listeners that he wants to pass his reasons for that onto them. 

Unlike "rhyner never died," I thought Mike was terrific today.  First, it was good to hear him do an entire segment, with Corby listening more-or-less respectfully, tossing in a question or a comment at appropriate intervals.  The leisurely pace almost sounded like storytelling to me and I thought at the time -- I'm enjoying this a lot.

I will concede that the Springsteen/Neil Young/Petty worship can be tedious (although ol' Neil is one of my personal favorites).  Surely these guys have broader tastes than that.  But The Hardline is kinda in a no-win situation:  If they talk about popular groups, or groups they're obsessive about, they're boring.  If they talk about obscure bands Danny and Davey are listening to, they're musical snobs.   I do wish they would invite Jake to do a segment on some hip-hop he would like to call to our attention, and I could even go for a Ty Walker metal segment (Ty, if you're not a metal fan, I apologize -- I don't think Rich P is around in the afternoon). 

But this begs the question:  Should The Hardline and the other shows even be spending segments on music?  I understand the point of view that there is already not enough hard sports on The Ticket.  Frankly, I don't mind the pop culture stuff.  (Exception:  BaD's movie and teevee talk, the difference being that movies and teevee shows have plots that anyone who might want to watch the show or movie based on their discussion will not want to hear.

So, is it correct to say, as "rhyner never died" does, that they should "talk for us, not you"?  On reflection, I don't think so.  The genius of The Ticket is that they have great hosts who make their shows sound like overheard conversations.  I don't want them guessing what "us" wants.  Listeners have come to trust and like their weekday heroes, and, for better or sometimes worse, they want to know what's on their minds, not what they think might be on ours.

48 comments:

Anonymous said...

Change this and you change The Ticket. "R.n.d." can get over it. As usual, The Plainsman nails it.

Anonymous said...

I'm not saying they should or they shouldn't... All I know is whenever they (anyone at the ticket) start getting really into music talk I punch out. It's just boring. Especially when they play entire songs or long segments of music.

It's something anyone can do. Whereas usually, the ticket does things only the ticket can do. That's what makes it special. I can hear any joe blowhard give his lame popular music opinions or go on and on about local music or whatever.

Anonymous said...

I apologize for repeating without attribution what someone smarter than me said in this very forum. The guys at The Ticket aren't necessarily good at sports; they're good at RADIO. It's downright fascinating to hear a good raconteur talk about something he's passionate about. I listened to the segment asking myself: "If this were Mike talking about people no one had ever heard of, would it still be interesting?"

Of course it would.

Anonymous said...

Man, I used to LOOOOOOVE music talk on the Hardline. Why? Because it was random. You never knew what was going to spark it and thus you never knew when it was coming down. It was spontaneous and it was awesome! Now it's not. Now it's a thought out, pre-production segment. It's drawn out, it's deliberate, and it's boring. It's been this way for several years now. This all stems from the two drive time shows now having local yokel musicians as hosts. Period. From Rhynes' seemingly endless appetite for playing covers (as far as I can tell he's never played in a band that does originals--and which ultimately does say something about him) to Gordon's new wave youth gone wild crap reunion shows to Danny's earnest yet ultimately derivative alt-country stuff to George's well intentioned hyper derivative attempt at song writing and dealing with his ever changing middle aged male menopause stance on life... Well, one's head spins. The bottom line is that The Ticket was better when it was a fan of music, and not a taste maker and collective musician. The thing that what used MAKE Hardline music segments (and same with the ever rarer Muser segment) was that it came up casually, not preplanned, and that it always related to the listener. It was not some J Off "I dig this artist" which is what, especially with the Hardline, music segments have become. And don't get me started when they start kissing ass on local yokel musicians that are moving up the ranks in the Dallas Observer "Am I Hip Now" list. To listen to them kiss the asses of these people disgusts me. "Hey, I too am a local musician. You're great. I mean I'm OK, I mean I'm just a radio sports guy with a some such idea about how I'd like to do music if I really had the talent to do it, but really I want you to know that I know who you are and that I am aware your very temporary local yokel star status--yet I seek your tacit approval nonetheless. But because I'm trying to be a star like you in the local music scene, and not just the radio world (because that's no longer enough to sate my ego), please accept me."

The Plainsman said...

Very interesting perspective. Don't agree with most of it but I must say that there is some ass-kissing of very average local cats that the Boys would otherwise reject.

The Plainsman said...

Gordon just totally disrespected the "Up Your Ticket" promo. He asked whether they forgot to put the "rejected promo" tag on it. Nope, this was not intended to be satirical, it was intended to exhort listeners to tune in more, and it's embarrassing its participants.

Shaggy said...

As you're a fan of language I feel the need to point out that you're using "begs the question" incorrectly.

The Plainsman said...

Shag, it's funny you say that because as I was rereading this prior to posting I asked myself whether that was the right phrase to use,which should have been enough to get me to change it.

But then I decided that given Rnd's post, I really hadn't addressed the subquestion presented by his critique, which is whether The Ticket should be doing music segments at all. Since I hadn't really addressed this, I thought it was OK to say that what I HAD addressed "begged the [implied] question."

Best to avoid cliches entirely. I therefore accept your correction.

charlie0712 said...

I'm 26 and have been listening for about 8 years now. I now live in Chattanooga, TN so I don't have access to the local guys that they talk about so I find it great. The guys have always done music segments and I find them fascinating as always. Even the segment yesterday about Buffalo Springfield (which my Texas Country only ears have never heard of) was great and with all the history that Rhyner goes through about it it great especially in his awesome storytelling way.

Anonymous said...

Count me out when they do music segments. And it's because of the "We know music better than you and what we listen to is better than what you listen to" attitude. It's a tune out for me as well because it's pompous. If they'd go through the music more in a way of this is what we like, it's pretty cool, hope you like it too...I might be more into it. But the stuck up attitude the segments tend to take...I'm out.

Anonymous said...

@3:47am anon:

Pretty much gagree with you homie. Being a local yokel musician myself, and having run into a few of the musician hosts while in their local yokel musician posture --maybe that's not the right word-- I can tell you that the way you describe the situation between the musician host and other local yokels is accurate to the point where I almost think you also are a local yokel. Also have to agree that the Hard Line's taste maker attitude is a turn off.

T4 In Rockwall said...

Wow, chaos coming from the Hardline show today.

Anonymous said...

And at 4:19 pm The Ticket goes off the air. First Mike and Corby couldn't hear Danny. And by the way, you don't need to keep making a show out of their not being able to hear you, Danny. It's unnecessary. Especially when they're talking and making substantive points. I know some on this blog think Danny's the third host, well, new flash, he's not. He's the producer. Top the early tech snafu with the now absence of the station. This is ridiculous.

Bo Bear said...

Uh OH...Did Cumulas tire of Mike's comments? Wow...we could be seeing the Beginning of the End. Let's hope not.

Anonymous said...

There is no end. The Ticket will last forever. Ratings rules everything.

Max Power said...

If anything is ever going to improve, we have to hit them in the pocketbook.

What a cadre of puckered a-holes and nutless wonders that populate Cumulus middle management.

HerpDerp said...

The only times I will guarantee never punch out on the Ticket is when Mike talks music or baseball. Don't confuse the Hardline talking those subjects with Mike. Corby/Danny are awful music talkers and Corby is even worse at baseball. But Mike? Those two subjects bring a passion completely unrivaled at the little one.

Ron said...

Mike and I are the same age, so when he talks geezer rock he is right in my wheelhouse. I sat in the car in 100 degree heat to hear the Buffalo Springfield segment. Loved it.

Maybe one of the problems with the music segments is that the two hosts and one producer (don't want to offend anyone) are trying too hard to impress each other with their knowledge.

And anyone who says the only song they are known for is "For What It's Worth" is . . . well . . . mistaken.

Now as to today's technical meltdown . . I'm trying to figure Mike's mindset. Has he about had it, or does he tell himself that he would be crazy to walk away from this gig?

Jeff said...

I generally look forward to the Ticket music segments (Biggest Show and other random ones), but I'm a huge music fan. I do agree with the general consensus that Corby and Danny have a very hipster-ish, music snob attitude. For every person that dislikes Neil Young, Springsteen, Petty, etc., I'm sure there are an equal amount of people agreeing with them. But, then again, they are paid to give opinions. If they acted like they loved everything, we'd all complain about that. I usually like the Muser music talk (up until Gordo takes the wheel and slams it into 5th gear) because there are more voices to add perspective.

Dan's Beach Towel said...

If you don't like it don't listen. I for one appreciate Mike's insight into music he finds important and I also like how he will get curious and delve into some newer stuff if he gets a good vibe or recommendation. Love that he will talk shit about something (probably b/c he's never heard it) and then do a 180 and be into itif he digs it. Count me as one who is very interested in what Mike has to say about music or baseball. I like that dude even though he has 30 years on me.

Anonymous said...

"If you don't like it don't listen." Now there's a brilliant argument.

Music talk used to be special, now it's daily occurrence, and now it's no longer special. There was a time when Buffalo Springfield talk would have been interesting to me. But because of daily music talk, it isn't.

slinky said...

I enjoy Mike and Danny. They're pretty much the show. The problem is Corby. He's an ass-whip! He's an ass-whip today, he'll be an ass-whip tomorrow, and when he dies, his tombstone will read "Here Lies Ass-whip Corby"!

The Plainsman said...

Can anyone provide us with the broadcast schedule for next week, who's filling in where, who's moving around? Other than The Musers, is anyone else going on vacation? I suppose it might be on the website, but The Ticket website depresses me.

We will require reports on all JV appearances and wife swaps.

After a shaky KTurner start during the 5:30 segment -- a bit chatty and nervous -- I thought he started to hit his stride with the narcolepsy story. Muse/News also AOK with me.

It is interesting, is it not, how some voices make the speaker seem likable, and different voices saying the same thing leave an entirely different impression? KT conveys an impression of likability to this seasoned observer.

Shaggy said...

Bob's on vacation starting yesterday and Dan's out starting today. Not sure if they're out all next week too, but I'm guessing yes. I believe Norm is doing the Musers' time slot next week.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
charlie0712 said...

I've been listening all day today and I think KT has done an awesome job.

The Musers and BaD are both on vacation. Norm is doing mornings and CDS is doing Norm's 10-12 shift. I don't know who is filling in for BaD next week and I think the Hardline might be out but I can't recall.

Anonymous said...

Next week:

Norm 5:30-10
CDS 10-12
Black&Quack 12-3

The Plainsman said...

850 Anon, can you give us some kind of source, however disguised, for the information about Erwin?

I don't want to have imputations of law-breaking out there, hurt the guy's job-getting possibilities, without some indications of reliability. Not that I would have any way of checking up, but can you at least give us your reasons for believing that this was the reason he was let go?

Anonymous said...

Came to the realization yesterday that Dan is great and Bob is great, but BaD is not. I'd listen to a Dan piloted show, I'd listen to a Bob piloted show. The two together make for an awkward pairing.

The Plainsman said...

1114 Anon, you and I have come to exactly, exactly the same conclusion, which I wrote about at extraordinary length right here:

http://myticketconfession.blogspot.com/2012/01/its-not-too-early-to-ask-some-hardline_6579.html

Shaggy said...

Bob can drive the show, but Dan can not. I barely
Wanted to listen yesterday with no Bob.

blergoyen said...

The absolute WORST part of any music segment for me is when their vocabulary shifts to one of a "musician insider" and/or they start using first-name-only references to celebrities with whom they have ZERO in common. Hearing Mike say things like, "Ah yes, I see you're employing the 'Drop D,'" is similar to having a colon seizure. Passing a kidney stone is a walk in the park compared to listening to corky say things like, "Mick is Mick," or "Bruce is Bruce." Yeah sure corky, I can see the connection - you can really empathize with legend-status celebrities because of your own regional C-list status, seasonal long hair and your t-shirt that smells like a diaper.

Anonymous said...

It's always been weird to me that people tend to complain about the Hardline when most people I talk Ticket with can't stand BaD radio. Between hockey talk, the never ending parade of guests, and their odd/painful chemistry, the Hardline seems like vintage era Stern compared to them.

P2 in MI said...

In my opinion, BAD radio is the best of the "big 3" shows on the Ticket. Not that it may mean much to anyone else.

P1bdogETX said...

I liked it until Donnie came onboard. I can see where a lot of people would like his bits and he has a wonderful personality. It's the FORCED blackness. Now they are all saying "Dog" and the references to the "community" are most times a reach. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not that guy who will, at any opportunity inject race into a conversation. I'm just opining with my view on the whole thing. I'm a fan of the show but when things like this come up, I'm like...really??

Anonymous said...

the music segments are insightful at times, and only come around when sports is slow, and they need a filler. bad radio fills time better than any show on the ticket. i dont want to hear about football in june or july

Anonymous said...

I don't understand why Donnie is on the show; he doesn't have much personality. It seems very forced trying to include him in the conversation. He's the "Garrett Morris" of the Ticket. I mean, come on, Donnie, do some voices or something--jeez.

Anonymous said...

If you listen closely, Donnie is either actually, or has worked very hard, into becoming a very knowledgeable sports guy. Any trivia-esque comment that comes up, especially in WTDS, Donnie is more often than not right on top of it. I think many of the Donnie complaints have/are been valid for the most part....but over the last 5 months, Donnie has been money where stats, history, and current events where sport is concerned. In other words, Donnie Doo is learning the craft not only by on the job experience, but also by doing his homework. Long live Donnie Doo.

ap said...

Donnie seems to have the quality of being able to get along with just anyone at the ticket - Full-timers or part-timers. To the best of my knowledge, he doesn't turn down an invitation to hang out with any of the other ticket members inside or outside of the confines of work, and for that reason, he's earned the nickname of "the professional friend."

Was his addition to BaD Radio a forced chemistry experiment? Most probably. Does he struggle at times to be included in the show? Yeah, it's still referred to as "the Bob and Dan" show by most (although "Dunham and Miller" is used to describe the Musers as well). But I think his most important contribution to the show is the one you don't hear -- Bob and Dan don't argue on-air as much as they used to. Donny-Doo and his massive neutron rod act as the moderator to that show. Plus, keep in mind that while one Hardline promo espouses the "Born here, Bred here" virtue of Mike, Danny and Corby, Bob and Dan are still considered imports.

Or something...I just woke up

normalguyguide said...

Caught some of the weekend offerings today. Krenek's tickers had me rolling, from his tease of "Ranger pitchers are going down faster than a friendly woman on Harry Hines" to leading up to a soundbite from Jimmy Walker the golfer and instead playing a Good Times Jimmy Walker drop. Awesome work.

In addition, The Orphanage is one of the easiest of easy listening shows on the Ticket.

Also listened to the CdS Show for the first time in a long time. Not quite sure why so many people have such a hard time discerning Mike from Cash. Yes, the voices are similar but Cash's had a noticeable rasp. Doesn't take much effort to know who is talking.

Anonymous said...

I'm totally with normalguyguide on this CDS thing. I was listening to that show today and thinking specifically of some of the posts on this site and wondering how anyone has a problem with this show. Especially when you compare it to any other weekend (fill in) shows.

Who cares if they sound similar? I can tell the difference. And at least they are sharp, quick and funny.

I'd love to see them get more air time spots.

ausgang said...

I'm glad that you find CdS flawless. I don't. Their similar voices don't bother me; what bothers me is the constant talking over one another, the finishing of one another's thoughts (yes I know they're brothers, but this is radio, you don't do that, so they should be mindful of it), and the overall hyperactive nature of the show--there are far too many voices in the room getting far too much air time. Having said that, there are times when they settle down and settle into a groove; and when they do, the show is solid. Unfortunately more often than not they don't. I'm not sure why, but Ben and Skin were on ESPN today. If this is going to be a regular occurrence, I'll be tuning into those boys every Saturday. It's a much better, more professional, more informative show than CdS. What a shame it is that ESPN has them going against The Musers' last hour. If they were straight ahead against Norm, I bet they'd garner better ratings (they might even best Norm). BaS have upped their game.

Anonymous said...

pretty sure anon 4:49 didn't call them flawless

ausgang said...

"[W]ondering how anyone has a problem with this show..." A statement like that can easily be taken to mean that the subject at hand is thought to be problem free, i.e., flawless. And let's say for the sake of argument the Anon didn't mean that CdS is without issue. That has no bearing on my statement. The thrust of my comment is that I have problems with the show, and here is my list of complaints. Does this work for you, 7:08 Anon? Or are you just one of those ticky tacky individuals who likes to focus on the particular that has little or no bearing on the whole?

The Plainsman said...

I like CdS. The similar-sounding voices: Would it were otherwise, but it's not a big deal. I do agree with those who find it overly frantic sometimes and too many people talking at once (sometimes only two). They have some good bits, it's a very positive show, I don't mind the participation of the JV, sounds like a group of guys who genuinely like one another having a good time. But yeah, the conversation needs more discipline sometimes.

I really hope the CBS alliance doesn't detract from Ticket-sourced weekend programming.

Anonymous said...

Ben and Skin struggle in the 10-12 hours too. The ratings data shows that they do better in those hours, but it's not even close to Norm.

Anonymous said...

I'll be giving Ben and Skin my full three this week. You should too.

Anonymous said...

so you guys are comparing the Ticket weekend show with the everyday offering of B&S?

that's a win for CDS, no?